Agreed. Those with enough means will probably buy this thing just for those lenses. I'm sure that's what Leica must be counting on.
jaapv wrote:
Surpisingly ( or rather not, imo), interest amongst the targeted customer base seems to be high- the future can only tell. Let's wait until these things do get to the market. It is not as if Leica needs to sell hundreds of thousands. Nobody knows the projected sales figures except Leica themselves, but I would be highly surprised if Leica even managed to build more than 2500 over 2009. Of the DMR they only built 5000, and that was double the projected figure, reason it sold out. At the moment there are only 15 S2s..
Tariq Gibran wrote:
I agree with both of you guys, jaapv and foto-z. The issue is then what does the S2 bring to the MF party? It will be as slow as the traditional MF systems, will not have the benefits of the larger, traditional MF systems such as a big viewfinder and, according to foto-z, aimed at landscape shooters who do not need high Frame rates. There are already plenty of choices out there which do this. It's not fast enough for the fashion shooter. It seems to be a camera which will fail to satisfy the traditional MF market or the high end 35 DSLR market. A hybrid and compromise which does not excel at any one thing which is already in the market. I hate to say it, but I think Leica is going to have a difficult time selling this thing....Show more →
Actually I didn't say it was aimed at landscape users. I was talking about medium format in general.
This camera may not be very fast but it claims to be the fastest medium format camera, and that will matter to some. As lots of fashion is already shot on medium format, this camera will NOT be too slow - on the contrary it looks very suited to fashion.
It looks like the lenses do not have an aperture ring making adapting to 35mm cameras pretty tricky. Too bad, I would have liked to try the 30m T/S on my Canon (although I've only seen the CS lens images)...
This camera is not meant for people who shoot BIF, Surfing, etc. Nor is meant for people who need to shoot in low light like PJs and street photographers. It is not meant for wedding photographers or people who shoot portraits. Also not for poor fanboys
Their market is the same as Leaf, Sinar, Hasselblad and Phase One. Top end commercial and fashion shooters.
Hasselblads H3DII-39, which looks like the possible competition, already offers 1.4FPS. Is Leicas 1.5 FPS really going to make a difference. They speak about the S2 as if its so much faster. .1FPS difference? This S2 just will not be able to compete against the Blad which offers exchangeable and upgradeable backs, prisms and a whole system worth of accessories, not to mention how entrenched Hasselblad is into the rental market. Those shooters who currently use a Canon 1DsIII alongside their H3D, PhaseOne, Rollei or Leaf will continue to do so as the S2 can replace neither setup. There is still the chance this camera may help Leica in other ways such as has been mentioned but it will not set the market on fire and become ubiquitous in MF land.
foto-z wrote:
Actually I didn't say it was aimed at landscape users. I was talking about medium format in general.
This camera may not be very fast but it claims to be the fastest medium format camera, and that will matter to some. As lots of fashion is already shot on medium format, this camera will NOT be too slow - on the contrary it looks very suited to fashion.
Tariq Gibran wrote:
Hasselblads H3DII-39, which looks like the possible competition, already offers 1.4FPS. Is Leicas 1.5 FPS really going to make a difference. They speak about the S2 as if its so much faster. .1FPS difference?
welcome to marketing. Can most people *really* tell the difference between a 285hp car and a 300hp car? I doubt it, but that number alone is enough to get some people to completely ignore the 285hp car, because they think it will be inadequate. Not everyone thinks like that, and not everyone thinks completely like that, but I would bet that alot of people do, to some degree. So, marketing kicks in and tries to make the best out of every little number And if their number is lower than someone elses number, they'll down play the fact that the number even exists
I think the Leica camera will be interesting, but I think it's a shame that whoever buys the camera, also has to buy a set of lenses to go with it too? (am I correct?) In either case, I'm sure it will be well out of my budget. If you want resolution and perks of large image area for cheap, get a 4x5 or 8x10 camera or if you like a longer ratio, go 5x7 Since I've been shooting 4x5 and 8x10, my 1Ds2 has seen alot less action, but I keep it for things the bigger cameras can't do.
There is the market Leica speak of..commercial fashion shooter, etc but where I think this style of camera wins is the mamiya 7 type of camera...true mf quality in a very handholdable travel conscious package with a stellar lenses.
Now of course I am ignoring the price concerns here but looked at purely in what it can do...well I reckon it could do that very nicely!
(Personally though when I invest this amount on my digital gear for commercial work I will be going the db route as that allows use on both slr and shift camera which for my work, I would need.)
yea, I imagine alot of commercial shooters with big budgets will think nothing of buying into a new system, I suppose that's really the market for this camera? As well as to keep the Leica name as a high quality name.
foto-z wrote:
If anyone's interested, I started a Flickr group for the Leica S, which I hope will build in time as people start using the camera and post samples, and more news is released: http://flickr.com/groups/920282@N22/
Just in case anyone is interested, you can fool the FM parser by using...
& # 6 4 ;
...but with no spaces, instead of an at symbol (@).
Hmmm. Interesting. Have to wonder about what the prices of those lenses are going to be. I suspect anticipated volumes will be small, relative to M-lens volume, so the prices of the lenses could be astronomical. They are taking a big gamble here. Rather than compete directly with an accepted standard, they just create their own where it would be harder to compare. I wonder if the market will consider this a "brilliant stroke", or just an expensive product that is "neither here nor there".
By the way, do we know who is making the sensor? Is it Kodak?
Can most people *really* tell the difference between a 285hp car and a 300hp car? I doubt it, but that number alone is enough to get some people to completely ignore the 285hp car, because they think it will be inadequate. 