Register · Search · Software · Join Upload & Sell · Hosting

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
Username   Password

FM Forum Rules
FM Forums | Alternative Gear & Lenses | Join Upload & Sell   
Search Used
1 2 3 6
7
8 9 end
  

Archive 2008 · New Leica S system 30x45mm
  
 
cogitech
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: On
p.7 #1 · New Leica S system 30x45mm


What? It doesn't shoot video



Sep 23, 2008 at 04:12 PM
jaapv
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off
p.7 #2 · New Leica S system 30x45mm


Another interesting link:

http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/the_online_photographer/2008/09/real-innovation.html

Sep 23, 2008 at 04:23 PM
brainiac
Offline
Dedicated FM
Account Locked
p.7 #3 · New Leica S system 30x45mm


foto-z wrote:
If anyone's interested, I started a Flickr group for the Leica S, which I hope will build in time as people start using the camera and post samples, and more news is released: http://flickr.com/groups/920282@N22/


Just in case anyone is interested, you can fool the FM parser by using...

& # 6 4 ;

...but with no spaces, instead of an at symbol (@).

Here's a working version of the link:
http://flickr.com/groups/920282@N22/


Sep 23, 2008 at 04:42 PM
Lotusm50
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: Off
p.7 #4 · New Leica S system 30x45mm


Hmmm. Interesting. Have to wonder about what the prices of those lenses are going to be. I suspect anticipated volumes will be small, relative to M-lens volume, so the prices of the lenses could be astronomical. They are taking a big gamble here. Rather than compete directly with an accepted standard, they just create their own where it would be harder to compare. I wonder if the market will consider this a "brilliant stroke", or just an expensive product that is "neither here nor there".

By the way, do we know who is making the sensor? Is it Kodak?



Sep 23, 2008 at 05:01 PM
Graham Mitchell
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: Off
p.7 #5 · New Leica S system 30x45mm


Thanks, brainiac

Sep 23, 2008 at 05:01 PM
Graham Mitchell
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: Off
p.7 #6 · New Leica S system 30x45mm


Lotusm50 wrote:
By the way, do we know who is making the sensor? Is it Kodak?



Yes


Sep 23, 2008 at 05:02 PM
shirozina
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off
p.7 #7 · New Leica S system 30x45mm


No pop-up flash?

Sep 23, 2008 at 05:03 PM
andrewd01
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off
p.7 #8 · New Leica S system 30x45mm


louis fusco wrote:
retaining the 2:3 golden ratio

3:4 is far more pleasing on the eye.


Just crop it to whatever aspect ratio you want! Its not like there's not enough pixels


Sep 23, 2008 at 05:09 PM
bobbytan
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: On
p.7 #9 · New Leica S system 30x45mm


shirozina wrote:
No pop-up flash?





Sep 23, 2008 at 05:32 PM
brainiac
Offline
Dedicated FM
Account Locked
p.7 #10 · New Leica S system 30x45mm


andrewd01 wrote:
louis fusco wrote:
retaining the 2:3 golden ratio

3:4 is far more pleasing on the eye.


Just crop it to whatever aspect ratio you want! Its not like there's not enough pixels


Haha! Yes - "I spent $50k on my S2 outfit, and now I want those 38 million pixels to pay!"

Sep 23, 2008 at 06:15 PM
Tariq Gibran
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: On
p.7 #11 · New Leica S system 30x45mm


More like "I spent $50K on this thing and now my wife has left me!" "At least this thing should be able to make me breakfast!".

Sep 23, 2008 at 07:51 PM
Lotusm50
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: Off
p.7 #12 · New Leica S system 30x45mm


Tariq Gibran wrote:
More like "I spent $50K on this thing and now my wife has left me!"



Sounds like a good deal to me. Cheaper than a divorce settlement!
;-)



Sep 23, 2008 at 09:04 PM
brainiac
Offline
Dedicated FM
Account Locked
p.7 #13 · New Leica S system 30x45mm


Lotusm50 wrote:
Tariq Gibran wrote:
More like "I spent $50K on this thing and now my wife has left me!"



Sounds like a good deal to me. Cheaper than a divorce settlement!
;-)



No - she also gets half the camera.

Sep 23, 2008 at 09:46 PM
 



ulrikft
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off
p.7 #14 · New Leica S system 30x45mm


brainiac wrote:
Lotusm50 wrote:
Tariq Gibran wrote:
More like "I spent $50K on this thing and now my wife has left me!"



Sounds like a good deal to me. Cheaper than a divorce settlement!
;-)



No - she also gets half the camera.


That is what you have marital contracts for

Sep 23, 2008 at 09:58 PM
brainiac
Offline
Dedicated FM
Account Locked
p.7 #15 · New Leica S system 30x45mm


ulrikft wrote:
>> No - she also gets half the camera.

> That is what you have marital contracts for


Whoops!

Sep 23, 2008 at 10:24 PM
davewolfs
Offline
Upload & Sell: On
p.7 #16 · New Leica S system 30x45mm


For that money why not just invest into a system that will be around for a while i.e. Phase One + Mamiya or Hassy.

Sep 23, 2008 at 10:44 PM
Cheers
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off
p.7 #17 · New Leica S system 30x45mm


brainiac wrote:
Another interesting tidbit from the blog is that the S2 has a single AF point. Still no information about how or whether they managed to squeeze a bright 30x45mm prism into a camera the size of a D700. Is this going to be an AF-only camera? If not, what will manual focus ring action be like? It gets more and more intriguing.



the OM-1 has a much bigger finder than the D700, and yet has a much smaller body with a much less prominent prism bump. not much bigger than a plastic rebel 2000 and certainly smaller than a 50D or D90. so it's not at all shocking that they can put a finder suitable for a 45x30 image sensor into a body not much bigger than a 5D.

Sep 23, 2008 at 10:58 PM
robsteve
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off
p.7 #18 · New Leica S system 30x45mm


davewolfs wrote:
For that money why not just invest into a system that will be around for a while i.e. Phase One + Mamiya or Hassy.


I think Leica has been around longer than either of those companies

Sep 23, 2008 at 11:28 PM
Tariq Gibran
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: On
p.7 #19 · New Leica S system 30x45mm


It would be shocking if they pulled off a really decent magnification(.70 or greater) and 100% view with a sensor which is 50% larger than 35mm in the rather small S2 body. I bet it's actually not physically even possible without some major concessions which could include low magnification of say 50%. Also remember the OM1 did not have to deal with all the AF stuff like a secondary mirror. The viewfinder details are still unknown with regard to the S2 and I'm surprised we have not heard any details about it yet. I think it is going to be important because MF SLR users expect a big, beautiful view. It's one of the main feature draws for some MF shooters.

Cheers wrote:
brainiac wrote:
Another interesting tidbit from the blog is that the S2 has a single AF point. Still no information about how or whether they managed to squeeze a bright 30x45mm prism into a camera the size of a D700. Is this going to be an AF-only camera? If not, what will manual focus ring action be like? It gets more and more intriguing.



the OM-1 has a much bigger finder than the D700, and yet has a much smaller body with a much less prominent prism bump. not much bigger than a plastic rebel 2000 and certainly smaller than a 50D or D90. so it's not at all shocking that they can put a finder suitable for a 45x30 image sensor into a body not much bigger than a 5D.



Sep 23, 2008 at 11:29 PM
telyt
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off
p.7 #20 · New Leica S system 30x45mm


Richard, is this an example of your objectivity toward Leica? You haven't even peeped its pixels yet and you come up with this.

brainiac wrote:
> Why did Leica go with the S-System at this point, instead of the R-System? They didn’t want to launch a me-too product. If the full frame R10 came out now, everyone would compare it to the FF Canons and Nikons. Does it shoot as fast? Does it have low noise at 6400 ISO? Does it slice bread? Etc. Instead, the S2 creates a new, unique flagship product for Leica.

By the way, I think Farkas' blog could do with a Google translation, although Google doesn't seem to offer translation from panting infatuese into basic English.

So here goes:
"Why did Leica go with the S-System at this point, instead of the R-System?" = R system investors have every right to be angry at the glacial pace of DMR development and the absence of full frame digital for their lenses.

"They didn’t want to launch a me-too product." = they don't have the techonology to compete with CaNikon either in AF or in sensors, so they must try to invent a new class of camera in the hope that those manufacturers will leave them alone in their corner where comparison is futile.

"If the full frame R10 came out now, everyone would compare it to the FF Canons and Nikons. Does it shoot as fast? Does it have low noise at 6400 ISO? Does it slice bread? Etc." = since Leica can't compete in these areas that are clearly important to a large number of photographers, these photographers must be childish artless fools who want their cameras to do unreasonable things and are only interested in bragging about specs.

"Instead, the S2 creates a new, unique flagship product for Leica." = by inventing a format of its own, people can go on saying that no other camera competes until 2016 when the S3 will once again be the best and only camera in the class.

Seriously, the way to deal with the problems of the R system isn't to let it lie fallow for another year. Farkas' blog is a prime example of the cringing apologism which enables Leica to continue squeezing every last drop of other people's hard-earned cash out of its deservedly famous brand without actually solving the problems of producing competitive products. Let's hope the S2 changes all that. It will need to be affordable, capable in low light and autofocus, and offer image quality that no cheaper camera can. I look forward to it with a certain jaded skepticism.



Sep 23, 2008 at 11:30 PM
Lotusm50
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: Off
p.7 #21 · New Leica S system 30x45mm


Actually, is seems fairly objective to me. He is making a critical assessment of strategy and marketing for this new camera. It has nothing to do with pixel peeping as it does not address image quality at all (I think we all assume that it will be excellent). This is all about the business case for the S2 and whether it might see a bright future. All but the most ardent Leica fan-boys and apologist must have some questions about this market strategy and whether it will succeed. Richard's comments appear to me to be both reasonable and balanced.


telyt wrote:
Richard, is this an example of your objectivity toward Leica? You haven't even peeped its pixels yet and you come up with this.

brainiac wrote:
<snip>
Seriously, the way to deal with the problems of the R system isn't to let it lie fallow for another year. Farkas' blog is a prime example of the cringing apologism which enables Leica to continue squeezing every last drop of other people's hard-earned cash out of its deservedly famous brand without actually solving the problems of producing competitive products. Let's hope the S2 changes all that. It will need to be affordable, capable in low light and autofocus, and offer image quality that no cheaper camera can. I look forward to it with a certain jaded skepticism.




Sep 23, 2008 at 11:58 PM
Sarsfield
Offline
Upload & Sell: On
p.7 #22 · New Leica S system 30x45mm


Richard's comments appear to me to be both reasonable and balanced.

I know I'm an interloper and an outsider to the alt group but I have followed the M*, R* and now S* threads for year(s), am a member of the Leica user group and remember very well the exodus of some of the Leicaphiles a few years ago. (Was it that long ago?) Although I agree with Lotus' assessment of Brainiac's analysis, I do see a veiled attack at Leica and it's users in many of his posts. He does it intelligently and in a mild manner but they are attacks nonetheless. Just my humble opinion and I have never owned a Leica.

Having said that, I do feel for the many anguished souls who have been sold a bill of goods with the M and R systems and who have invested time and a significant amount of money for seemingly trouble filled photography. Yes, the captures of some Leica cameras do inspire awe but I see that as a product of the photographer and the post-processor more than from the camera/lenses.

Now, my solution? Brainiac will have to go to time out for awhile. Tariq, you should also take a breather. Everybody else, carry on. Oh, and I hope Leica can continue to exist if only to inspire it's users to continue to take great photographs.

Have a good day.

Sep 24, 2008 at 02:49 AM
Tariq Gibran
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: On
p.7 #23 · New Leica S system 30x45mm


Sarsfield wrote:
Now, my solution? Brainiac will have to go to time out for awhile. Tariq, you should also take a breather. Everybody else, carry on. Oh, and I hope Leica can continue to exist if only to inspire it's users to continue to take great photographs.

Have a good day.


Oh, I'm sorry. I did not realize you were the moderator here! I have questions and I have every right to ask them. I have not read everything about the S2 on the web and its just possible that someone might read one of my questions and have the answer. I guess you don't.


Sep 24, 2008 at 03:06 AM
mh2000
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: Off
p.7 #24 · New Leica S system 30x45mm


Kodak can make excellent highend sensors...

foto-z wrote:
Lotusm50 wrote:
By the way, do we know who is making the sensor? Is it Kodak?



Yes



Sep 24, 2008 at 03:21 AM
mh2000
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: Off
p.7 #25 · New Leica S system 30x45mm


BARF! no way!

louis fusco wrote:
retaining the 2:3 golden ratio

3:4 is far more pleasing on the eye.



Sep 24, 2008 at 03:23 AM




FM Forums | Alternative Gear & Lenses | Join Upload & Sell
1 2 3 6
7
8 9 end
    
 

You are not logged in. Login or Register

  Username   Password  
Lost your password?