orangefirefish wrote:
Hmmm... full frame 1d3? Oh yes, that's right, the 1ds3...
Yeah, I know! I thought about that. It's the same as asking for a 1Ds II with a modern sensor.
-But remember, what models Canon brings out is not dictated by the engineers, it's dictated by the marketing guys. That is an absolute fact. -And it's just nuts for them to have a gap in their lineup between $2700 and $8K.
They almost HAVE to go after the D700. A lot of people, who are considering upgrading from something like a Rebel or 40D, have not yet invested heavily in lenses. Therefore, they could reasonably decide to switch to Nikon.
Maybe Canon is thinking that the added, "sort of" video will be enough. Maybe they're right.
Jman13 wrote:
I'm sorry...there needs to be a reality check here. Canon can't design a camera made for every individual.
Canon has:
A great lineup of consumer grade SLRs in the Rebel series
A high image quality, relatively high FPS, high MP prosumer 1.6x body in the 50D.
An extremely high image quality full frame, small form factor body with weathersealing, HD video, but prosumer AF.
A very high image quality pro sports camera with great high ISO, pro AF, weathersealing, 1.3x
And an extremely high image quality full frame, pro form factor body with pro AF, weather sealing.
And people are complaining because there aren't all sorts of bodies in between these. There's already a huge selection of bodies to choose from, and one that caters to nearly every need.
Canon is a business. Releasing another camera to fit between the 5DII and the 1DIII, and another to fit between the 1DIII and the 1DsIII would result in deminished returns...lots more R&D cost, lots more cost in production (due to multiple models), and likely decreased profit because they'll sell the same amount of cameras...just divided between 3 models instead of 1....Show more →
You would make a wonderful spin doctor for Canon.
Just curious where you have found demands for a camera between the 1D III and 1Ds III - you have pulled that one out of thin air. As for a camera between the 5D II and 1D III your memory is very short. Back when there was just a 10D and 1D and then 20D and 1D II, people were asking for a camera to bridge the $3000 gap; they wanted something better built, with better AF yet without having to carry around a 1.5kg tank. Why is that unreasonable?
I would call a full frame body with 16 MP with high FPS and pro AF a camera between the 1DIII and 1DsIII.
And it's not necessarily unreasonable, it just doesn't fit well into the Canon lineup.
I'm not saying you have to love the 5DII. Just that people expect Canon to listen because they're speaking. The only way Canon is going to change what they do is if people leave and they lose profit. Like any company, Canon wants to make money. Their strategy has worked very well for them in the past, so why change it? If enough people leave for Nikon, they'll reconsider, but there is a huge group of people who want image quality above all else, and have been satisfied with 9 point AF.
How many people really need a camera like you describe. The areas that truly need exceptional 45 point AF are sports shooters and action shooters, and they would probably be best served by the 1DIII. The 5D and 5D II are really intended for landscape / architecture / portrait photographers who need maximum detail and don't usually shoot extremely tough AF situations. For those who really need both, there's the 1DsIII.
Heck, half my shooting is done manually focusing anymore, so I guess that's why I don't mind the specs on the 5DII.
While I think the D700 is a good camera, I think Nikon was really stupid from a business standpoint with it. Why would anyone buy the D3? Honestly...I can't see any reason whatsoever to buy that camera. Spend $2000 for an extra 3 fps?
According to Chuck Westfall of Canon USA, the AF system of 5DII remains the same as that of 5D because they feel it is good enough. There are a few hidden AF points around the center, and they claim that that's enough for tracking a moving object near the center.
To me this argument doesn't seem to make sense. 5D is for landscape and portraits. People are not interested in tracking moving objects. But they are expecting all the AF points, not just the center one, to be more precise, and to spread more evenly across the viewfinder.
The video mode produces high definition movies, interesting indeed. But since this is experimental, Canon should have used the rebel rather then the 5D to experiment, as the OP pointed out. By the way, if the video mode is so exciting, why not put it into the more expensive 1Ds III? Just wait and see what happens when the 1D(s) IV comes out. If there is no video mode in it, then obviously the 5D is just a cheap guinea pig in Canon's eyes.
It's a good thing Canon's got guys like Cableaddict out here to help them figure out what their product line should look like. While you've got Canon on the line, Cableaddict, why don't you get them to drop the direct print button and implement a sensible mirror lock up? Because it's clear they're listening.
Or, here's a thought: There's already a camera that fits the bill. It's called the D700. If you really want to get Canon's attention, and convince them they ought to make one that suits you, the best way to do it is to buy their competitor's product. That's going to have a far more tangible effect than whining on forums.
In the last 6 months I saw all kind of opinions saying that the new 5DMK2 should have "weather sealing",more MP,AF microadjustment,a decent LCD,more fps,a much higher ISO values(at least the same like D3/D700),etc.AND HERE IT IS!!! THE new 5DII offer that and more and will all that I'm surprised to see some people saying that they want "x",or they want "y".THE ONLY THING that 5DII doesn't have is an AF sistem with more points. Come on,people, 9cross-type points it's more than enouth,especially if it works really good,being "driven" by the DIGIC4 processor.So wait to the first tests and talk after,you don't need 51AF points,good lord,be reasonable,you guys!!!!!!!
gabimaster wrote:
In the last 6 months I saw all kind of opinions saying that the new 5DMK2 should have "weather sealing",more MP,AF microadjustment,a decent LCD,more fps,a much higher ISO values(at least the same like D3/D700),etc.AND HERE IT IS!!! THE new 5DII offer that and more and will all that I'm surprised to see some people saying that they want "x",or they want "y".THE ONLY THING that 5DII doesn't have is an AF sistem with more points. Come on,people, 9cross-type points it's more than enouth,especially if it works really good,being "driven" by the DIGIC4 processor.So wait to the first tests and talk after,you don't need 51AF points,good lord,be reasonable,you guys!!!!!!!...Show more →
you dont "need" 51 points, but I can definatly see the "need" for a fast-tracking/locking auto-focus. If it takes 5 seconds to acquire focus on a still object, its practically useless.
BenV-if you shoot action sports and birds,you should buy 1DMK3 now,when the AF problems are finally gone(lately I could't see anyone complaining anymore about 1dMK3) and I saw a test on a site ("photographyhouse","photographyhome" or somthing-I don't remember well the name)between NIKON D3 and Canon 1DMK3 on a fast object tracking test;guess what,1DMK3 is a lot better(with all the problem that made it famous).But it will cost you 4000$(if you are living in US,now I see you are).My opinion-it's worth it for sure,MK3 now is a very reliable camera.
If you look at one of his responses, he mentioned "Big brother" if this camera. Was he referring to a new camera or new 1D series ?. It seems to me a new camera other than 1D series.
BenV-one more thing(don't get me wrong,man):I saw that you are registered in 1.01.2008 and you already have 1974 posts;how do you find some more time to go outside to shoot if you spend so much time on this forum? I own a 5D(the original one) and 2*30D and a lot of Canon "L" lens(I shoot most of the time weddings) and I am very happy with the AF sistem;a friend of mine(that is also a wedding photographer) has a NIKON D300+17-55 f/2.8(that is a good lens) and believe me,the IQ of my 30Ds(released in march 2006) looks a lot better than his pictures.About 5D ,it's pointless to compare it with D300,it make no sense,5D +24-105L is FANTASTIC!!! And you should see what can do 135 f/2.0 L on 5D. CAN YOU TELL ME WHICH LENS from Nikon can compare with that??!!!!
It's very dangerous to start personally attacking someone because you checked out when they registered and how many posts they have and then make some judgment on that.
BTW, I like my 5D and I'm not planning on dumping it for a MK II any time soon (unless I get a shoot that requires another 5D body). I'll probably hold out for the 5D MK III (although I'll probably have well over 100,000 activations by then). Right now, I'd rather spend the money on a bit of glass.
My point is some guys are spending 4-5 hours each day dreaming about "perfect DSLR" without knowing if some feature that is not appear in a new camera is realy helpful for him,and you know why?,because they forgut to do what any photographer should do:taken pictures for him and for others.For me ,the original 5D is more than enouth,but in the meantime some others are saying that is an absolite camera,that is no more good for them.Really?
I refuse to believe that the anemic, incremental 5DII is going to be Canon's only new offering this year. Clearly it is aimed at Rebel owners, not current 5D owners, nor 1-series owners looking for a backup.
Where's the camera for us?
Are they really going to have a product line that jumps from $2700 to $8K? Makes no sense.
I predict something will be shown, either at Photokina, or within a few months, in the $3500 range. (witin reach of the D700 market, but costly enough to be able to decimate it.
One can dream, so here I go:
Better AF, of course.
No embarrassing "print" button.
Articulating LCD
Completely programmable menu screen.
Gapless photosites, for higher ISO without sharpness loss.
Silent mode
Better shutter, with perhaps 5 fps.
Either significantly better video, or no video at all.
Still no built-in grip (for those that want compact.)
Still no dual data cards. (something has to differentiate the top-end pro camera)
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nikt wrote:
It's very dangerous to start personally attacking someone because you checked out when they registered and how many posts they have and then make some judgment on that.
That's right Iceman, I am dangerous. It actually doesn't take much investigating to find this information. If the info is not there to be used for making some sort of judgement, why then exactly is it there? I think the term "attacking" is a bit extreme, maybe even dangerous.
rhtml wrote:
By the way, if the video mode is so exciting, why not put it into the more expensive 1Ds III? Just wait and see what happens when the 1D(s) IV comes out. If there is no video mode in it, then obviously the 5D is just a cheap guinea pig in Canon's eyes.
So what if it is? It's been standard Canon practice to introduce new features like this in non-top-end models and then decide whether to move it up to 1-series.
The original version of the 45-point AF system was introduced in the EOS 3, and it was 18 months later that it made it up to the EOS 1v. The eye-controlled focus had been provided in the mid-range EOS 5E, then EOS 50E, then EOS 3, but never made it up to the 1-series (in fact it's disappeared altogether - maybe they decided it didn't mix well enough with the 45-point AF).
The 5DmkII is just that: an updated version of the 5D. I'm sure there are many 5D users who will be happy staying with the original, and maybe it is going to entice "Rebel users" up to the 5D family, but the bottom line is that Canon is going to sell lots of them. It is an upgrade to the 5D, just not the exact set of features that some voluble people apparently wish for.
There will be new FF cameras from Canon. The 1Ds4 (or whatever the exact name will be) will arrive at some point, they've indicated they're going to produce "Rebel" FF bodies at some point (personally I consider the 5D family to be the FF equivalents of the xxD family, not the xxxD family at the moment) and you can be assured that Canon will introduce another non-1-series FF body with better AF, fps, X-sync, etc than the 5DmkII. We just don't know when (or exactly what it'll be called). And in the end does it matter much? Canon (and Nikon) have nice cameras now. Get one (or pick up the one you have already), take it out into the world, and use it to create the best work you can!
As for why Nikon sells the D700 for significantly less than the D3 with most of the features ("doesn't that ruin the D3 market?") it doesn't take much to work out what's going on. I'm just pulling these specific numbers out of the air, but if for example Nikon's profit on each D3 was only twice that on each D700, they would only have to sell twice as many D700s to make the same money. I'm guessing they're going to sell WAY more than twice as many D700s! Even if the difference in profit was 10x, I'm sure Nikon will be ahead. And those people who need the extra features of the D3 will get one of those anyway.
