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Archive 2008 · Most complained about model yet

dhphoto
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p.4 #1 · Most complained about model yet

John Power wrote:
My point was that as I read thru the initial barrage of threads about the new release it seemed to me that the clear majority of comments were negative.

But they are always negative.

Even if Canon had provided a small 1-series with 45 point autofocus and a 12 stop dynamic range it wouldn't have been good enough due to it's odd shaped pentaprism, it's too-rubbery texture or it's having the wrong numer of megapixels (and a video mode of course, what sacriledge)

I find some of the comments here just astonishing - people say it has too many meg, but it has 3 different RAW sizes and manu more for jpeg, it's more waterproofed than before, it has auto ISO, it has a fantastic big screen, it has a whole raft of fantastic new features in a well made body at what would have been a giveaway price 18 moths ago and if you like it you are a 'nazi Canon fanboy'.

Oh no, it's only got 9 AF points and they are in the wrong place, how terrible, Canon must be TOLD. You are clearly A FOOL if you like this camera, or a Canon conspiritor

That, my friends, is the problem with the anonymous internet

David

Sep 18, 2008 at 12:30 PM

simonella_viru
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p.4 #2 · Most complained about model yet

dhphoto wrote:
Even if Canon had provided a small 1-series with 45 point autofocus and a 12 stop dynamic range it wouldn't have been good enough due to it's odd shaped pentaprism, it's too-rubbery texture or it's having the wrong numer of megapixels (and a video mode of course, what sacriledge)
David

hyperbolic, speculative, irrelevant argument.

dhphoto wrote:
I find some of the comments here just astonishing - people say it has too many meg, but it has 3 different RAW sizes and manu more for jpeg, it's more waterproofed than before, it has auto ISO, it has a fantastic big screen, it has a whole raft of fantastic new features in a well made body at what would have been a giveaway price 18 moths ago and if you like it you are a 'nazi Canon fanboy'.
David
yes, astonishing. but you can't argue the popular yearning for an AF system that is:
- more spread-out, closer to rule of 1/3s
- x-type pts (not just the center)
- possibly more af pts, so that you don't have to focus-recompose (esp with thin DOF lenses)

in the wake of the d700, it has been obviated that canon intentionally cripples its cameras (as they always have) into definitive market segments. also, that people no longer want to spend the money on the over-bloated cow-camears named 1ds/1d. or simply, that people don't want to have two cameras.

so yeah, some people will switch to nikon for the d700 because nikon seemed to have listened to the canon customers

. if i had the money, i'd switch!

Sep 18, 2008 at 01:54 PM

Steve Ickes
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p.4 #3 · Most complained about model yet

Sunny Sra wrote:
People want a lexus for the price of a Toyota. most of the Bitchin and whining is by pixel peepers.."iso 640000 shots..look at the noise" ...bleh. either buy teh camera or don't buy...but for frikkin sake..go take a picture.

A fool with a tool is still a fool. no matter how many features and megapixels.

Probably the single best assessment of the situation yet! I still wonder how so many were able to take amazing photos all these years with, ugh, film cameras? No preview screen, no white balance control, no cross-type AF points, no mega pixels, and grainy high ISO performance. Damn those were the days!

Sep 18, 2008 at 02:08 PM

dhphoto
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p.4 #4 · Most complained about model yet

simonella_viru wrote:

hyperbolic, speculative, irrelevant argument.

All personal opinions are

Sep 18, 2008 at 02:10 PM

Steve Ickes
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p.4 #5 · Most complained about model yet

simonella_viru wrote:
also, that people no longer want to spend the money on the over-bloated cow-camears named 1ds/1d. or simply, that people don't want to have two cameras.

Actually as the owner of 2 1D MK II's and 1 MK III I'd have to say that I consider them powerful, reliable, and consistent workhorses as opposed to "over-bloated cow-cameras" whatever the hell a cow-camera is. And I would gladly spend the money on a 1Ds, if I had it that is. Judging by the number of shooters I know with 1D series bodies I'd say that your generalization is inaccurate.

so yeah, some people will switch to nikon for the d700 because nikon seemed to have listened to the canon customers

. if i had the money, i'd switch!

And two years ago Nikon shooters were all bitchin' and switchin' because there was no D3. If you're not happy here, you won't be happy there. That's just the way it is with people who place the emphasis, and blame, on the equipment rather than the process.

Sep 18, 2008 at 02:39 PM

crivera
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p.4 #6 · Most complained about model yet

We better calm down, in a couple month we are will be talking about how good is the IQ of the 5DMK2, and believe me when you start to work with big files and see all the detail you are getting, all the room to crop and how clear are the files from noise you will understand how good this camera is.
I know is not a perfect camera I too wanted a better body with better AF and FPS but for landscape, travel, events and macro work will do fine. But for $2,700.00 is a great buy.
I have a 1Ds MkII and is only 4 FPS versus 3.9 and the 1Ds2 is a great camera, I do believe that with the new Digic IV the AF will be faster and precise than the 5D.
So CANON went for IQ as many people have say instead of a pro body with less IQ.
I just wonder the new 1Ds IV how many MP is going to sport and how many FPS will have with two Digic IV processor….. Stay tuned for February 2009…. Is coming...

Sep 18, 2008 at 02:40 PM

chez
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p.4 #7 · Most complained about model yet

Steve Ickes wrote:
Sunny Sra wrote:
People want a lexus for the price of a Toyota. most of the Bitchin and whining is by pixel peepers.."iso 640000 shots..look at the noise" ...bleh. either buy teh camera or don't buy...but for frikkin sake..go take a picture.

A fool with a tool is still a fool. no matter how many features and megapixels.

Probably the single best assessment of the situation yet! I still wonder how so many were able to take amazing photos all these years with, ugh, film cameras? No preview screen, no white balance control, no cross-type AF points, no mega pixels, and grainy high ISO performance. Damn those were the days!

So Steve I take it that you still shoot with the Canon F1 without any autofocus, simple metering etc...? If not, are you a fool with a new tool?

Sep 18, 2008 at 02:47 PM

mfurman
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p.4 #8 · Most complained about model yet

dhphoto:
Oh no, it's only got 9 AF points and they are in the wrong place, how terrible, Canon must be TOLD. You are clearly A FOOL if you like this camera, or a Canon conspiritor That, my friends, is the problem with the anonymous internet

Amen, to this and the whole post.

Sep 18, 2008 at 02:47 PM

mfurman
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p.4 #9 · Most complained about model yet

simonella_viru wrote:
so yeah, some people will switch to nikon for the d700 because nikon seemed to have listened to the canon customers

This is exactly the problem - you seem to generalize referring to "Canon customers". It may be said "some Canon customers" (it is almost like saying that all Canadians are liberal and left leaning)

Sep 18, 2008 at 02:51 PM

dhphoto
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p.4 #10 · Most complained about model yet

chez wrote:

So Steve I take it that you still shoot with the Canon F1 without any autofocus, simple metering etc...? If not, are you a fool with a new tool?

It is quite possibly because I spent the bulk of my career using manual focus (usually medium and large format cameras, and 2 Canon F1's) that I think I appreciate what we have now perhaps more than those who have grown up in the autofocus, and latterly digital era.

These new cameras are F@#*ing awesome! (and that is not a word I use often)

They can do stuff that boggles my old mind, each new generation supercedes the last, usually at a cheaper price and yet so many people still aren't happy. It's such a shame.

The REAL question is whether the new cameras will enable you to take better pictures, and generally the answer is yes. They have more accurate focusing, more latitude, better LCD's for review, LiveView, more meg for better detail and less noise.

It has never been easier to be a professional photographer, it has never been easier to produce reliable reproduceable results, almost without the fear of failure.

And yet, still not good enough by a mile for many. It really is a shame.

David

Sep 18, 2008 at 02:56 PM

Mike Scott
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p.4 #11 · Most complained about model yet

Sunny Sra wrote:
People want a lexus for the price of a Toyota. most of the Bitchin and whining is by pixel peepers.."iso 640000 shots..look at the noise" ...bleh. either buy teh camera or don't buy...but for frikkin sake..go take a picture.

A fool with a tool is still a fool. no matter how many features and megapixels.

Not true. The pixel peepers are happy. It's the people who shoot moving and off-center subjects that are upset.

Mike

Sep 18, 2008 at 03:32 PM

lexvo
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p.4 #12 · Most complained about model yet

crivera wrote:
... I do believe that with the new Digic IV the AF will be faster and precise than the 5D.

I agree with your post, but this sentence brings a question to my mind: (how) does the DIGIC processor affect AF? Just curious.

**EDIT**

Just saw that Jeff answered this question in another thread. Quoted from RG:

"The 5D Mark II does include two changes in its AF system, relative to the 5D: it now has the ability to detect scene colour temperature and light flicker, then incorporate that as part of the camera's autotofocus calculation, plus AF Microadjustment, to compensate for focus calibration error in the camera body or combination of body and attached lens, has been added."

Sep 18, 2008 at 03:37 PM

Steve Ickes
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p.4 #13 · Most complained about model yet

chez wrote:

So Steve I take it that you still shoot with the Canon F1 without any autofocus, simple metering etc...? If not, are you a fool with a new tool?

No, you found me out. I don't shoot with a Canon F1. Actually I still shoot with a Nikon FE2, F3HP, a Holga, and a Graflex sans autofocus AND as simple a metering as you will find. I guess in the mind of many who've never shot film that makes me a fool.

Personally I find the arrogance and ignorance of those who've never even worked with film foolish, they speak as if photography never existed until autofocus and high capacity CF cards. New tools? You bet. I love my Mark II's and Mark III. Do I feel that their lack of certain features hinders my creative abilities? Honestly I'm usually too busy shooting to even think about it so I guess not.

Not sure what you're exactly getting at in your response though. If I had to venture I guess I would say that you took my general comments a bit too personally which then begs the question "why?"

Sep 18, 2008 at 04:02 PM

Pell
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p.4 #14 · Most complained about model yet

I think gear whores will complain about anything no matter what it is, it's just part of the photography community I guess.

Sep 18, 2008 at 04:23 PM

dcmiller
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p.4 #15 · Most complained about model yet

I agree. Unfortunately unrealistic expectations are taking the fun out of these forums.

dhphoto wrote:

It is quite possibly because I spent the bulk of my career using manual focus (usually medium and large format cameras, and 2 Canon F1's) that I think I appreciate what we have now perhaps more than those who have grown up in the autofocus, and latterly digital era.

These new cameras are F@#*ing awesome! (and that is not a word I use often)

They can do stuff that boggles my old mind, each new generation supercedes the last, usually at a cheaper price and yet so many people still aren't happy. It's such a shame.

The REAL question is whether the new cameras will enable you to take better pictures, and generally the answer is yes. They have more accurate focusing, more latitude, better LCD's for review, LiveView, more meg for better detail and less noise.

It has never been easier to be a professional photographer, it has never been easier to produce reliable reproduceable results, almost without the fear of failure.

And yet, still not good enough by a mile for many. It really is a shame.

David

Sep 18, 2008 at 04:31 PM

dcmiller
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p.4 #16 · Most complained about model yet

Pell wrote:
I think gear whores will complain about anything no matter what it is, it's just part of the photography community I guess.

I think you can be a gear whore and still understand that all tools have limitations and sweet spots. I think the problem is the belief that "it's not my skill, it's the cameras fault".

Same with some of the emphasis on dynamic range. Like that HDR is a replacement for good light. Or that 2 more stops of DR will make photographs better.

Learning the basics of good photographs makes photographs better, Learning to see makes photographs better.

Sep 18, 2008 at 04:33 PM

mostlyprudent
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p.4 #17 · Most complained about model yet

What a bizarre thread. The 5DII will compete more than adequately against the D700 and A900. That's all Canon needs it to do. More than that, and Canon starts competing against its own line. I have no doubt that in a year this forum will be filled with the same "dreamy about the 5DII" kinds of posts as we've seen for the 5D. The really funny thing is that I think I have seen more complaints about the original 5D in this and the "master Thread" than I have over the last 2+ years in this entire forum.
Didn't DPR suggest that the original 5D's use of a full frame sensor was "gimmicKy"?

Edited on Sep 18, 2008 at 05:02 PM · View previous versions

Sep 18, 2008 at 04:39 PM

Milan Hutera
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p.4 #18 · Most complained about model yet

Chris Beaumont wrote:
There is definately a degree of paranoia I know, but I'd like to be ASSURED, rather than keeping my fingers crossed, that if it starts raining during the formals, I'm not going to have a £2200 paperweight!

Just for the record I've taken a 30D (ie no environmental sealing at all) out for hours in the most torrential rain to photograph lightenings (the 70s jet version) at Bruntingthorpe, with no ill effect what-so-ever, and yes the 5DII will probably eat that kind of thing for breakfast, but the point is that IF a stray bit of water does get through to something vital, that's a lot of money down the drain, because I can't see Canon going "our bad, have another one"

Oh for Lord's sake just look at the preview before complaining about stuff that camera lacks...

http://www.dpreview.com/previews/canoneos5dmarkII/page5.asp

Sep 18, 2008 at 04:39 PM

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p.4 #19 · Most complained about model yet

snowboarder wrote:
.
If it wasn't for a new Canon version of Distagon 21mm (and its full electronics
vs manual metering in Nikon version), I'd be gone by now.

This is all-to-common misinformation.

The ZFs actually do support auto aperture & wide open metering (and all corresponding shooting modes) as long as you have a D200 or greater.

Sep 18, 2008 at 04:39 PM

lexvo
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p.4 #20 · Most complained about model yet

Didn't the original 5D also receive a so-so welcome?
And after a year threads started about how good it was

Sep 18, 2008 at 05:10 PM

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