It's out: Canon 5D II

FM Forums \| Alternative Gear & Lenses \| Join Upload & Sell	Search Used
1 2 3 … 6 7 8 9 end

Archive 2008 · It's out: Canon 5D II

mawz
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: Off

p.7 #1 · It's out: Canon 5D II

dcmiller wrote:

Yes, this is way overdone. It's also exaggerated by some Nikon users. All DSLR have environmental seals and none are weatherPROOF. Canon added more weatherproofing to the 5DII. 1 series cameras do occasionally fail in the rain.
Keeping a chamois over the lens barrel and whipping down the camera is still the best way to shoot in light rain. People shooting the superbowl in a downpour still put raincoats on "weatherproof" pro cameras.

The Oly E-1 and E-3, The Pentax K10D and K20D and the Samsung GX-10 and GX-20 are all weatherproof when matched with sealed lenses (In fact they are splashproof, which is even more demanding than weatherproof). Neither Nikon nor Canon offer any cameras sealed to the same extent. Nikon seals the D700 and D300 to the same level as a D3 or a Canon 1-series, which has superior sealing to either 5D or the 50D. However it's merely a matter of degree and none of these cameras is up to serious weather. If you need to be able to shoot in anything, get the Oly or Pentax.

Sep 18, 2008 at 06:49 PM

Tariq Gibran
Online
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: On

p.7 #2 · It's out: Canon 5D II

If you look at the close up shots of the 5DII over at DPreview that show the weather sealing, its a joke almost. Camera battery door and CF card slot door have a piece of foam added. If you were to add the extended Grip/battery holder, you would even loose what weather sealing there is at that battery door. Take a look at that Grip. Nothing on it to create a real seal to the bottom of the 5DII. The buttons and dials perhaps have gaskets of some sort, but looking at those two doors, its obvious that Canon did not spend any time or money doing a proper re-design for the purpose of weather-sealing. They did the least amount required to satisfy those expecting it. It's basically Canon Marketing BS, not that I wanted weather-sealing to begin with but if your going to claim it, don't do a half ass job. That will just invite people who actually think it has proper weather sealing to ruin their expensive camera...and, will this be covered under warranty? Good luck with that.

mawz wrote:
dcmiller wrote:

Yes, this is way overdone. It's also exaggerated by some Nikon users. All DSLR have environmental seals and none are weatherPROOF. Canon added more weatherproofing to the 5DII. 1 series cameras do occasionally fail in the rain.
Keeping a chamois over the lens barrel and whipping down the camera is still the best way to shoot in light rain. People shooting the superbowl in a downpour still put raincoats on "weatherproof" pro cameras.

The Oly E-1 and E-3, The Pentax K10D and K20D and the Samsung GX-10 and GX-20 are all weatherproof when matched with sealed lenses (In fact they are splashproof, which is even more demanding than weatherproof). Neither Nikon nor Canon offer any cameras sealed to the same extent. Nikon seals the D700 and D300 to the same level as a D3 or a Canon 1-series, which has superior sealing to either 5D or the 50D. However it's merely a matter of degree and none of these cameras is up to serious weather. If you need to be able to shoot in anything, get the Oly or Pentax.

Sep 18, 2008 at 07:49 PM

cogitech
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: On

p.7 #3 · It's out: Canon 5D II

Tariq Gibran wrote:
If you look at the close up shots of the 5DII over at DPreview that show the weather sealing, its a joke almost. Camera battery door and CF card slot door have a piece of foam added. If you were to add the extended Grip/battery holder, you would even loose what weather sealing there is at that battery door. Take a look at that Grip. Nothing on it to create a real seal to the bottom of the 5DII. The buttons and dials perhaps have gaskets of some sort, but looking at those two doors, its obvious that Canon did not spend any time or money doing a proper re-design for the purpose of weather-sealing. They did the least amount required to satisfy those expecting it. It's basically Canon Marketing BS, not that I wanted weather-sealing to begin with but if your going to claim it, don't do a half ass job. That will just invite people who actually think it has proper weather sealing to ruin their expensive camera...and, will this be covered under warranty? Good luck with that.

Actually, they made no such claim:

As you can see from the first image below the body is made up of three pieces of magnesium, the only plastic elements being sides and the base. With the advent of the Mark II Canon are finally talking about the dust / water resistance of the body, the second image below shows these seals, Canon's description: "The battery compartment, memory card door, LCD and the camera buttons are all fitted with sealing materials (indicated in red). In addition the adoption of high precision split-level alignment of the magnesium-alloy external covers, high precision dial construction and external rubber grip covers (indicated in green), has improved the camera's dust and water resistance."

This image is copyrighted by the owner

Sep 18, 2008 at 08:00 PM

dcmiller
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: On

p.7 #4 · It's out: Canon 5D II

5DII is rated at 10cm water (rain) in 3 minutes. What is the oly or pentax rating? The Dpreview diagram shows extensive weatherproofing.

Sep 18, 2008 at 08:01 PM

cogitech
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: On

p.7 #5 · It's out: Canon 5D II

dcmiller wrote:
5DII is rated at 10cm water (rain) in 3 minutes. What is the oly or pentax rating? The Dpreview diagram shows extensive weatherproofing.

One way or the other, it is an improvement over the 5D, which is all Canon is claiming.

Sep 18, 2008 at 08:10 PM

marcwilson
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off

p.7 #6 · It's out: Canon 5D II

...the 5d is not meant to be a pro series camera...canon are keeping the lines of distinction firmly drawn as they have every right to.

they have given an improved sensor with nearly twice the resolution which cleans itself and all for not that much more than the original 5d was when it came out....This new 5d will do exactly what the old one did AND giver higher image quality wihtout the dust spots...so if the old 5d was good enough...why not the new one?

I don't really understand the moaning.

If its not the right camera are there not plenty of choices out there?

Sep 18, 2008 at 08:18 PM

mawz
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: Off

p.7 #7 · It's out: Canon 5D II

dcmiller wrote:
5DII is rated at 10cm water (rain) in 3 minutes. What is the oly or pentax rating? The Dpreview diagram shows extensive weatherproofing.

I'm not sure what the official rating is (and I can't find it online), but in comparison Pentax US's then head of Marketing (Ned Bunnel) demo'd the K10D and sealed DA* 16-50 by sticking it in a sink and running the faucet over it and posting the video on Youtube. 10cm in 3 minutes is a whole lot less water.

The shown sealing on the 5DmII is significantly less than the K10D's sealing at the battery compartment or card door. The Pentax uses twist-locks with large rubber gaskets in a thick door and the Oly is similar. And both use wet bodies in their marketing, something I don't think Canon will risk anytime soon.

By the looks of it, the 5DmII is sealed similarly or possibly better than the D700 (whose sealing is weak at the card door and battery compartment).

Sep 18, 2008 at 08:21 PM

Jman13
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: On

p.7 #8 · It's out: Canon 5D II

10CM in 3 min is essentially a waterfall. It's actually 10mm in 3 minutes. That's still pretty darn good, and is equivalent to shooting in a hurricane (7.5 inches per hour)

Sep 18, 2008 at 08:30 PM

dcmiller
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: On

p.7 #9 · It's out: Canon 5D II

Tariq Gibran wrote:
cogitech wrote:
Is everyone forgetting that this is a 35mm movie camera with interchangeable lenses?

A real Cinematographers might laugh if they hear you call a camera which shoots 1080P HD video "a 35mm movie camera". HUGE difference in quality there, and not on the side of HD video.

I've seen cogitech CV. You should probably stop now before you dig too deep of a hole.

Sep 18, 2008 at 08:36 PM

dcmiller
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: On

p.7 #10 · It's out: Canon 5D II

99 out of 100 dslrs would work fine after being put under running water one time.

I'm not a designer of portable electronic equipment, so I can't judge the effectiveness of weatherproofing design. But I can recognize the difference between an engineering rating and a salesman's demostration.

The only Oly dslr rated for any water is the E3. That one they say is "splashproof". The rest of the oly line says specifically that those models are not splashproof.

mawz wrote:
dcmiller wrote:
5DII is rated at 10cm water (rain) in 3 minutes. What is the oly or pentax rating? The Dpreview diagram shows extensive weatherproofing.

I'm not sure what the official rating is (and I can't find it online), but in comparison Pentax US's then head of Marketing (Ned Bunnel) demo'd the K10D and sealed DA* 16-50 by sticking it in a sink and running the faucet over it and posting the video on Youtube. 10cm in 3 minutes is a whole lot less water.

The shown sealing on the 5DmII is significantly less than the K10D's sealing at the battery compartment or card door. The Pentax uses twist-locks with large rubber gaskets in a thick door and the Oly is similar. And both use wet bodies in their marketing, something I don't think Canon will risk anytime soon.

By the looks of it, the 5DmII is sealed similarly or possibly better than the D700 (whose sealing is weak at the card door and battery compartment).

Sep 18, 2008 at 08:48 PM

mawz
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: Off

p.7 #11 · It's out: Canon 5D II

dcmiller wrote:
99 out of 100 dslrs would work fine after being put under running water one time.

I'm not a designer of portable electronic equipment, so I can't judge the effectiveness of weatherproofing design. But I can recognize the difference between an engineering rating and a salesman's demostration.

The only Oly dslr rated for any water is the E3. That one they say is "splashproof". The rest of the oly line says specifically that those models are not splashproof.

Note the only Oly's I claimed to be splashproof were the E-1 and E-3 bodies. The lower-end bodies are unsealed (Only the Pentax K200D is sealed out of the low-end DSLR's and it's sealed to a lesser extent than its big brother).

Neither Oly nor Pentax put the engineering rating for the sealing on their top-end models in the published marketing material (unfortunately), but a simple inspection will demonstrate how much better the sealing is (just look at the battery compartment door on an E-3 or K20D vs a D300 or 5DmII, there's significant difference in the construction in the E-3's and K20D's favour. However it does make those two bodies a little less handy for changing batteries or cards).

As a general rule, marketing material can indicate engineering. You don't market a DSLR body covered in water unless it's heavily sealed, because if you market that, you have to fix it if it's not up to the advertised capabilities.

Sep 18, 2008 at 09:03 PM

dcmiller
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: On

p.7 #12 · It's out: Canon 5D II

What pentax says publically is that the cameras are weatherproofed at the same standard of other manufacturers more expensive semi-pro bodies. That would be the D300 and the original 5D.
Like I said, I don't design portable electronic equipment so I don't know what works and what doesn't.

I've been looking at that little olympus DSLR, but with no water rating at all it seems too fragile.

Sep 18, 2008 at 09:10 PM

Cableaddict
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: On

p.7 #13 · It's out: Canon 5D II

cogitech wrote:
First of all, I'm not talking about pro video. I'm not going to try to make "The Hobbit" with it or anything.

Storage? I don't see this as an issue. Buy more cards.

Compatability? Video can be transcoded into any format or resolution.

Conversion? see above

Audio? Well, it has stereo audio input, but if I was really serious about audio I'd use a separate device. I'm not serious about audio.

Actually, the fisheye shot does pan. No Jell-o. Time will tell if the Nikon Jell-o effect kicks in at faster pan rates.

Focusing as I move? Fortunately, I know how to turn a focus ring just fine, and choose to do that 90% of the time.

There a losses when you convert. Transcoding is not a free lunch. Same goes for taking the audio up to 48K

The fisheye movie pans VERY slowly. They did that on purpose.

Audio? Even with an external mic, you cannot turn-off the built-in compression.

There's more, (lots more) but no point. The video part of this camera is already being covered in many websites. Bottom line: It's just a convenience add-on.

Sep 18, 2008 at 09:21 PM

Cableaddict
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: On

p.7 #14 · It's out: Canon 5D II

A couple of positive things, though:

( from http://www.dpreview.com/previews/canoneos5dmarkii/page3.asp )

No mirror flip in Live View ! (Cableaddict is suddenly intrigued. Stealth shots now possible.)

"If you use contrast-detect AF (called 'live mode' by Canon) in Live View the Mark II doesn't need to drop the mirror between exposures, this means the lag between pressing the shutter release button and the exposure is much shorter (it also means that in this mode camera is metering using the main sensor). This also makes the exposure much quieter."

Slightly better sensor after all:
"Reduced micro lens gap: the gap between microlenses has been reduced compared to the original EOS 5D, although there is still some gap (the EOS 50D has a 'gapless' design)."

Hmmmm. I still feel like waiting for the "3D" or whatever, but things aren't quite as bad as initial reports indicated.

Sep 18, 2008 at 09:25 PM

invalid2
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off

p.7 #15 · It's out: Canon 5D II

cogitech wrote:
Is everyone forgetting that this is a 35mm movie camera with interchangeable lenses?
Tariq Gibran wrote:
A real Cinematographers might laugh if they hear you call a camera which shoots 1080P HD video "a 35mm movie camera". HUGE difference in quality there, and not on the side of HD video.

cogitech wrote:
Let them laugh.

I see no reason why the source needs to exceed the quality of the destination.

I am highlighting the 35mm format for its creative advantages. The same advantages that a FF dSLR has to offer over a P&S camera. Sorry, but I can't wait to try it!

I think one of the reasons some people want the "digital cinema" cameras (red one, Dalsa Origin, Vision Research Phantom65, ...) with lots of pixels is that they print to film for distribution. Of course, there are plenty of HDTV resolution cameras as well (Arriflex D-20, Panavision Genesis, F-23, Thomson Viper FilmStream) and people use them.

Sep 18, 2008 at 09:39 PM

Tariq Gibran
Online
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: On

p.7 #16 · It's out: Canon 5D II

The specification that Canon gives is:

"Water resistance: 10 mm rain in 3 minutes"

That is a claim in my book. What do you call it? and note, its mm, not cm. That would be a very very light drizzle, not a hurricane as someone on one of the Canon forums mentioned. People are already starting to believe this thing has real weather resistance it would appear.

cogitech wrote:
Tariq Gibran wrote:
If you look at the close up shots of the 5DII over at DPreview that show the weather sealing, its a joke almost. Camera battery door and CF card slot door have a piece of foam added. If you were to add the extended Grip/battery holder, you would even loose what weather sealing there is at that battery door. Take a look at that Grip. Nothing on it to create a real seal to the bottom of the 5DII. The buttons and dials perhaps have gaskets of some sort, but looking at those two doors, its obvious that Canon did not spend any time or money doing a proper re-design for the purpose of weather-sealing. They did the least amount required to satisfy those expecting it. It's basically Canon Marketing BS, not that I wanted weather-sealing to begin with but if your going to claim it, don't do a half ass job. That will just invite people who actually think it has proper weather sealing to ruin their expensive camera...and, will this be covered under warranty? Good luck with that.

Actually, they made no such claim:

As you can see from the first image below the body is made up of three pieces of magnesium, the only plastic elements being sides and the base. With the advent of the Mark II Canon are finally talking about the dust / water resistance of the body, the second image below shows these seals, Canon's description: "The battery compartment, memory card door, LCD and the camera buttons are all fitted with sealing materials (indicated in red). In addition the adoption of high precision split-level alignment of the magnesium-alloy external covers, high precision dial construction and external rubber grip covers (indicated in green), has improved the camera's dust and water resistance."

This image is copyrighted by the owner

Sep 18, 2008 at 09:42 PM

Tariq Gibran
Online
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: On

p.7 #17 · It's out: Canon 5D II

dcmiller wrote:
5DII is rated at 10cm water (rain) in 3 minutes. What is the oly or pentax rating? The Dpreview diagram shows extensive weatherproofing.

mm not cm, BIG difference there. This is exactly what I'm talking about. There is not extensive weatherproofing at all. A diagram showing a color to represent sealing which turns out to be nothing but light foam? Give me a break.

Sep 18, 2008 at 09:45 PM

Tariq Gibran
Online
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: On

p.7 #18 · It's out: Canon 5D II

How do you come up with "nearly twice the resolution"? Everything else, I agree, the moaning is just so people don't ruin their expensive camera by thinking its "weatherproof", a work someone here has already used.

marcwilson wrote:
...the 5d is not meant to be a pro series camera...canon are keeping the lines of distinction firmly drawn as they have every right to.

they have given an improved sensor with nearly twice the resolution which cleans itself and all for not that much more than the original 5d was when it came out....This new 5d will do exactly what the old one did AND giver higher image quality wihtout the dust spots...so if the old 5d was good enough...why not the new one?

I don't really understand the moaning.

If its not the right camera are there not plenty of choices out there?

Sep 18, 2008 at 10:04 PM

marcwilson
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off

p.7 #19 · It's out: Canon 5D II

12.5 to 25 is twice so yes 21 a bit of an exaggeration, of course not twice, but you get the meaning..it's a whole lot of extra resolution

Sep 18, 2008 at 10:07 PM

Tariq Gibran
Online
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: On

p.7 #20 · It's out: Canon 5D II

No disrespect to cogitech intended at all. A 35mm movie camera implies a movie camera which takes 35mm film in the industry and means something very specific. HD video gives vastly less resolution than that.

dcmiller wrote:
Tariq Gibran wrote:
cogitech wrote:
Is everyone forgetting that this is a 35mm movie camera with interchangeable lenses?

A real Cinematographers might laugh if they hear you call a camera which shoots 1080P HD video "a 35mm movie camera". HUGE difference in quality there, and not on the side of HD video.

I've seen cogitech CV. You should probably stop now before you dig too deep of a hole.

Sep 18, 2008 at 10:15 PM

1 2 3 … 6 7 8 9 end
FM Forums \| Alternative Gear & Lenses \| Join Upload & Sell 1 2 3 … 6 7 8 9 end