It's out: Canon 5D II

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Archive 2008 · It's out: Canon 5D II

Tariq Gibran
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p.5 #1 · It's out: Canon 5D II

Don't let it be so! The weak AA filter is what makes the 5D special.

pdmphoto wrote:
Concerning the Canon landscape sample, I see lots of pixels but very little detail. Maybe Canon have used a strong AA filter on the new 5D?

Sep 18, 2008 at 02:19 AM

brainiac
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p.5 #2 · It's out: Canon 5D II

Be sure when looking at 100% samples that you bear in mind that you are looking at significantly higher magnification than with a 12 megapixel file. To really compare 100% samples with a 5D, you'll need to uprez the 5D file to 21 megapixels first. You can also downrez to 4368 pixels wide, but you're throwing away the whole the reason for 21Mpixel if you do it that way. This is probably why even very experienced photographers are criticising the centre-frame performance of the 24-105/5D2. We are used to looking at that lens's results at lower magnification.

Sep 18, 2008 at 02:34 AM

brainiac
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p.5 #3 · It's out: Canon 5D II

Tariq Gibran wrote:
Don't let it be so! The weak AA filter is what makes the 5D special.

pdmphoto wrote:
Concerning the Canon landscape sample, I see lots of pixels but very little detail. Maybe Canon have used a strong AA filter on the new 5D?

No - you are just seeing the sharpness limit of the lens. Stick your Zeiss 21 on there and you only need the same sharpness setting as the 5D. We've been through all these issues with the 1Ds3. The sensor results look identical to me.

Sep 18, 2008 at 02:36 AM

DocsPics
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p.5 #4 · It's out: Canon 5D II

I'm leaning towards keeping the 5D and adding a 50D. Good combo?

Sep 18, 2008 at 03:49 AM

cogitech
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p.5 #5 · It's out: Canon 5D II

brainiac wrote:
Be sure when looking at 100% samples that you bear in mind that you are looking at significantly higher magnification than with a 12 megapixel file. To really compare 100% samples with a 5D, you'll need to uprez the 5D file to 21 megapixels first. You can also downrez to 4368 pixels wide, but you're throwing away the whole the reason for 21Mpixel if you do it that way. This is probably why even very experienced photographers are criticising the centre-frame performance of the 24-105/5D2. We are used to looking at that lens's results at lower magnification.

Hence, a good reason to keep the 5D

Sep 18, 2008 at 05:00 AM

genoph
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p.5 #6 · It's out: Canon 5D II

Despite all the complaints (about Ergonomics, something they can actually just ask photographers about) I'm glad Canon did what they do best, release a camera that smokes the competition in the numero uno in the camera world. Image Quality.

I'd rather they smack a sensor that will compete in 2 or 3 years into the camera then release a camera with features that in the end, don't really improve my end product or ease of use (like Geo-tagging, although I guess they stuck video in it!)

I'll probably eventually own one of these guys, so I like it

Sep 18, 2008 at 05:07 AM

Tariq Gibran
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p.5 #7 · It's out: Canon 5D II

I'm regretting that I sold mine about now.

cogitech wrote:
brainiac wrote:
Be sure when looking at 100% samples that you bear in mind that you are looking at significantly higher magnification than with a 12 megapixel file. To really compare 100% samples with a 5D, you'll need to uprez the 5D file to 21 megapixels first. You can also downrez to 4368 pixels wide, but you're throwing away the whole the reason for 21Mpixel if you do it that way. This is probably why even very experienced photographers are criticising the centre-frame performance of the 24-105/5D2. We are used to looking at that lens's results at lower magnification.

Hence, a good reason to keep the 5D

Sep 18, 2008 at 05:08 AM

Tariq Gibran
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p.5 #8 · It's out: Canon 5D II

I don't think the 5DII will be able to do that for 2-3 years like the 5D did. The game is changing quickly and competition is mounting. Canon will either need to update the 5D more often or fall behind.

genoph wrote:
Despite all the complaints (about Ergonomics, something they can actually just ask photographers about) I'm glad Canon did what they do best, release a camera that smokes the competition in the numero uno in the camera world. Image Quality.

I'd rather they smack a sensor that will compete in 2 or 3 years into the camera then release a camera with features that in the end, don't really improve my end product or ease of use (like Geo-tagging, although I guess they stuck video in it!)

I'll probably eventually own one of these guys, so I like it

Sep 18, 2008 at 05:10 AM

cogitech
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p.5 #9 · It's out: Canon 5D II

Tariq Gibran wrote:
I'm regretting that I sold mine about now.

...and I'm looking forward to buying another...

Sep 18, 2008 at 05:31 AM

Lotusm50
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p.5 #10 · It's out: Canon 5D II

Tariq Gibran wrote:
I don't think the 5DII will be able to do that for 2-3 years like the 5D did. The game is changing quickly and competition is mounting. Canon will either need to update the 5D more often or fall behind.

I'm not so sure about that. I think we will be seeing product cycles lengthen, and not shorten -- as well as customer buying cycles lengthen. Digital technology is going to stabilize and there is going to be increasingly smaller benefits gained from new models down the road. I won't venture to say where we are on the technology curve, but I would say we are a lot closer to the inflection point than we were.

Sep 18, 2008 at 11:40 AM

Tariq Gibran
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p.5 #11 · It's out: Canon 5D II

I agree with most of your assertions overall. The issue I see with the 5DII does not concern its ability to be competitive with its image quality or sensor for the next 2-3 years but rather the fact that its fundamental camera features are already now, upon announcement, far behind the competition. This would include things like frame rate, viewfinder, general responsiveness(mirror blackout and shutter lag), etc. Canon will be forced to upgrade these things with something like the mythical 3D and dramatically lower the price of the 5DII because Nikon will certainly offer them at the 3K price point and Sony already does.

Lotusm50 wrote:
Tariq Gibran wrote:
I don't think the 5DII will be able to do that for 2-3 years like the 5D did. The game is changing quickly and competition is mounting. Canon will either need to update the 5D more often or fall behind.

I'm not so sure about that. I think we will be seeing product cycles lengthen, and not shorten -- as well as customer buying cycles lengthen. Digital technology is going to stabilize and there is going to be increasingly smaller benefits gained from new models down the road. I won't venture to say where we are on the technology curve, but I would say we are a lot closer to the inflection point than we were.

Sep 18, 2008 at 12:33 PM

cogitech
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p.5 #12 · It's out: Canon 5D II

Tariq Gibran wrote:
I agree with most of your assertions overall. The issue I see with the 5DII does not concern its ability to be competitive with its image quality or sensor for the next 2-3 years but rather the fact that its fundamental camera features are already now, upon announcement, far behind the competition. This would include things like frame rate, viewfinder, general responsiveness(mirror blackout and shutter lag), etc. Canon will be forced to upgrade these things with something like the mythical 3D and dramatically lower the price of the 5DII because Nikon will certainly offer them at the 3K price point and Sony already does.

Well, the 5DII is already lower in price and I think we will soon see that the image quality (the most important factor, in my mind) is superior to the competition. I also think that once the initial backlash against the video feature subsides, we will begin to see some really interesting stuff and many opinions will change.

I can already think of tons of great stuff that I could shoot with this "video camera". My mind is already imagining the scenes that I want to "film" with it. Is everyone forgetting that this is a 35mm movie camera with interchangeable lenses? So the cutoff is 12 minutes. I don't know about you, but I can get just about any "take" in 12 minutes. People speculate about the audio. Well, much of what I imagine shooting will be silent, or maybe have a musical score, so...

BTW, I am as surprised as you are that this is the feature that has me so excited. The idea was revolting to me in concept at first, but then these video sequences started popping up in my imagination and I began to think about how I could use all my different lenses.

If I want to explore the world of cinematography, this is how I want to do it. Not with some boring friggin' camcorder.

Sep 18, 2008 at 02:18 PM

Tariq Gibran
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p.5 #13 · It's out: Canon 5D II

cogitech wrote:
Is everyone forgetting that this is a 35mm movie camera with interchangeable lenses?

A real Cinematographers might laugh if they hear you call a camera which shoots 1080P HD video "a 35mm movie camera". HUGE difference in quality there, and not on the side of HD video.

Sep 18, 2008 at 03:15 PM

cogitech
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p.5 #14 · It's out: Canon 5D II

Tariq Gibran wrote:
cogitech wrote:
Is everyone forgetting that this is a 35mm movie camera with interchangeable lenses?

A real Cinematographers might laugh if they hear you call a camera which shoots 1080P HD video "a 35mm movie camera". HUGE difference in quality there, and not on the side of HD video.

Let them laugh.

I see no reason why the source needs to exceed the quality of the destination.

I am highlighting the 35mm format for its creative advantages. The same advantages that a FF dSLR has to offer over a P&S camera. Sorry, but I can't wait to try it!

Sep 18, 2008 at 03:50 PM

cogitech
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p.5 #15 · It's out: Canon 5D II

Check out these video clips, and maybe you'll see the potential that I do:

http://www.slashgear.com/canon-eos-5d-mark-ii-sample-video-clips-1716575/#entrycontent

Sep 18, 2008 at 05:20 PM

Tariq Gibran
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p.5 #16 · It's out: Canon 5D II

Those clips are not at 1080 HD resolution, though they look good at their tiny size. Is there somewhere one can download the actual HD footage? I'm sure if I end up with this 5DII, I would indeed enjoy playing around with the video function.

cogitech wrote:
Check out these video clips, and maybe you'll see the potential that I do:

http://www.slashgear.com/canon-eos-5d-mark-ii-sample-video-clips-1716575/#entrycontent

Sep 18, 2008 at 05:43 PM

tootalew
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p.5 #17 · It's out: Canon 5D II

After seeing the clip with 85 1.2 I thought....so then we can discuss the merits of animated bokeh, neat.

Sep 18, 2008 at 05:45 PM

Cableaddict
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p.5 #18 · It's out: Canon 5D II

Paul,

There's a LOT more to creating a pro video than just picture quality: Storage, compatibility, conversion, audio. In these shots, the camera isn't even moving or panning. The Nikon video, for instance, looks like moving jello when you pan. We don't know about the Canon yet, but there's no reason to believe it will be drastically better. There are problems inherent with the technology itself, which will take time to work out.

How about focusing as you move?
How about no-compressed audio, and at the industry standard of 48K?

Nope & nope.

The mpegs this camera makes are miles away from something a videographer could use.
The technology is promising, no doubt. I am very excited about the prospects, but I need a camcorder right now, and this camera 'aint it. Not by a long shot.

I'm putting my money into ZE glass, and waiting for the next generation still/video cam.

Sep 18, 2008 at 05:52 PM

cogitech
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p.5 #19 · It's out: Canon 5D II

First of all, I'm not talking about pro video. I'm not going to try to make "The Hobbit" with it or anything.

Storage? I don't see this as an issue. Buy more cards.

Compatability? Video can be transcoded into any format or resolution.

Conversion? see above

Audio? Well, it has stereo audio input, but if I was really serious about audio I'd use a separate device. I'm not serious about audio.

Actually, the fisheye shot does pan. No Jell-o. Time will tell if the Nikon Jell-o effect kicks in at faster pan rates.

Focusing as I move? Fortunately, I know how to turn a focus ring just fine, and choose to do that 90% of the time.

The h.264 mp4s that this camera makes are not miles away from what this videographer can use, and this videographer is incredibly excited to start using it. Give me this over even a Pro Series 3CCD boring, static lens POS any day.

Just my opinion, of course.

Sep 18, 2008 at 06:11 PM

Jman13
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p.5 #20 · It's out: Canon 5D II

From what I understand, the 5DII does do AF during video capture (it's not lightning fast, but it's there).

I have to say, after seeing those clips, this could be very cool. Beautiful video quality.

Sep 18, 2008 at 06:20 PM

mawz
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p.5 #21 · It's out: Canon 5D II

dcmiller wrote:

Yes, this is way overdone. It's also exaggerated by some Nikon users. All DSLR have environmental seals and none are weatherPROOF. Canon added more weatherproofing to the 5DII. 1 series cameras do occasionally fail in the rain.
Keeping a chamois over the lens barrel and whipping down the camera is still the best way to shoot in light rain. People shooting the superbowl in a downpour still put raincoats on "weatherproof" pro cameras.

The Oly E-1 and E-3, The Pentax K10D and K20D and the Samsung GX-10 and GX-20 are all weatherproof when matched with sealed lenses (In fact they are splashproof, which is even more demanding than weatherproof). Neither Nikon nor Canon offer any cameras sealed to the same extent. Nikon seals the D700 and D300 to the same level as a D3 or a Canon 1-series, which has superior sealing to either 5D or the 50D. However it's merely a matter of degree and none of these cameras is up to serious weather. If you need to be able to shoot in anything, get the Oly or Pentax.

Sep 18, 2008 at 06:49 PM

Tariq Gibran
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p.5 #22 · It's out: Canon 5D II

If you look at the close up shots of the 5DII over at DPreview that show the weather sealing, its a joke almost. Camera battery door and CF card slot door have a piece of foam added. If you were to add the extended Grip/battery holder, you would even loose what weather sealing there is at that battery door. Take a look at that Grip. Nothing on it to create a real seal to the bottom of the 5DII. The buttons and dials perhaps have gaskets of some sort, but looking at those two doors, its obvious that Canon did not spend any time or money doing a proper re-design for the purpose of weather-sealing. They did the least amount required to satisfy those expecting it. It's basically Canon Marketing BS, not that I wanted weather-sealing to begin with but if your going to claim it, don't do a half ass job. That will just invite people who actually think it has proper weather sealing to ruin their expensive camera...and, will this be covered under warranty? Good luck with that.

mawz wrote:
dcmiller wrote:

Yes, this is way overdone. It's also exaggerated by some Nikon users. All DSLR have environmental seals and none are weatherPROOF. Canon added more weatherproofing to the 5DII. 1 series cameras do occasionally fail in the rain.
Keeping a chamois over the lens barrel and whipping down the camera is still the best way to shoot in light rain. People shooting the superbowl in a downpour still put raincoats on "weatherproof" pro cameras.

The Oly E-1 and E-3, The Pentax K10D and K20D and the Samsung GX-10 and GX-20 are all weatherproof when matched with sealed lenses (In fact they are splashproof, which is even more demanding than weatherproof). Neither Nikon nor Canon offer any cameras sealed to the same extent. Nikon seals the D700 and D300 to the same level as a D3 or a Canon 1-series, which has superior sealing to either 5D or the 50D. However it's merely a matter of degree and none of these cameras is up to serious weather. If you need to be able to shoot in anything, get the Oly or Pentax.

Sep 18, 2008 at 07:49 PM

cogitech
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p.5 #23 · It's out: Canon 5D II

Tariq Gibran wrote:
If you look at the close up shots of the 5DII over at DPreview that show the weather sealing, its a joke almost. Camera battery door and CF card slot door have a piece of foam added. If you were to add the extended Grip/battery holder, you would even loose what weather sealing there is at that battery door. Take a look at that Grip. Nothing on it to create a real seal to the bottom of the 5DII. The buttons and dials perhaps have gaskets of some sort, but looking at those two doors, its obvious that Canon did not spend any time or money doing a proper re-design for the purpose of weather-sealing. They did the least amount required to satisfy those expecting it. It's basically Canon Marketing BS, not that I wanted weather-sealing to begin with but if your going to claim it, don't do a half ass job. That will just invite people who actually think it has proper weather sealing to ruin their expensive camera...and, will this be covered under warranty? Good luck with that.

Actually, they made no such claim:

As you can see from the first image below the body is made up of three pieces of magnesium, the only plastic elements being sides and the base. With the advent of the Mark II Canon are finally talking about the dust / water resistance of the body, the second image below shows these seals, Canon's description: "The battery compartment, memory card door, LCD and the camera buttons are all fitted with sealing materials (indicated in red). In addition the adoption of high precision split-level alignment of the magnesium-alloy external covers, high precision dial construction and external rubber grip covers (indicated in green), has improved the camera's dust and water resistance."

Sep 18, 2008 at 08:00 PM

dcmiller
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p.5 #24 · It's out: Canon 5D II

5DII is rated at 10cm water (rain) in 3 minutes. What is the oly or pentax rating? The Dpreview diagram shows extensive weatherproofing.

Sep 18, 2008 at 08:01 PM

cogitech
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p.5 #25 · It's out: Canon 5D II

dcmiller wrote:
5DII is rated at 10cm water (rain) in 3 minutes. What is the oly or pentax rating? The Dpreview diagram shows extensive weatherproofing.

One way or the other, it is an improvement over the 5D, which is all Canon is claiming.

Sep 18, 2008 at 08:10 PM


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