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Archive 2008 · Canon EOS 50D Master thread

  
 
Gochugogi
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p.52 #1 · Canon EOS 50D Master thread


David Tognazzi wrote:
Quick Update on my new 50D: I fianally got an Err 99 today. It happened only after I installed the grip from my 40D (that was on my 30D at one time). Has anyone got Err 99 w/o the grip? Wonder if it only happens when you HAVE a grip installed?


I use a BG-E2 grip that started with my 20D, moved to a 40D and now to a 50D. 2 weeks so far and no ERR99. Of course I've never gotten an ERR99 since 2003 when I bought a 10D. Do you need to do something special? Some guys used to invoke one in the 20D by twisting the grip while powered up. I tried but it's too tight.



Oct 21, 2008 at 03:28 AM
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p.52 #2 · Canon EOS 50D Master thread


Had one err99 Sunday while shooting football. Just turned camera off and removed/replaced battery and all was well. Using 50D (1.0.2 firm), 70-200 2.8IS with Sigma 1.4X TC and no grip attached.

This was the first time I was giving my 50D a good workout since getting it but I'm not all that concerned. It only happened once and was easily/quickly dealt with - I think it happened once or twice with my old 40D when I first got it now that I think about it.



Oct 21, 2008 at 03:20 PM
David Tognazzi
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p.52 #3 · Canon EOS 50D Master thread


I hope Canon will fix all these Err99 issues. Seems pretty wide-spread to just be a fluke.


Oct 21, 2008 at 05:48 PM
tanglefoot47
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p.52 #4 · Canon EOS 50D Master thread


David Tognazzi wrote:
I hope Canon will fix all these Err99 issues. Seems pretty wide-spread to just be a fluke.



Agreed but it has happened on some of the other bodies I remember when the 40 came out this is just a repeat of that imo



Oct 21, 2008 at 08:38 PM
Daan B
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p.52 #5 · Canon EOS 50D Master thread


tanglefoot47 wrote:
Agreed but it has happened on some of the other bodies I remember when the 40 came out this is just a repeat of that imo


All the more reason they should have fixed it by now



Oct 22, 2008 at 01:52 AM
Gochugogi
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p.52 #6 · Canon EOS 50D Master thread


David Tognazzi wrote:
I hope Canon will fix all these Err99 issues. Seems pretty wide-spread to just be a fluke.


Only on forums full of photogeeks. In real life it's a rare event. I recall every new EOS model had so many frickin' defects and errors reported on forums I delayed and considered not buying them. I finally called BS, got one and could not duplicate a single one of the "widely" reported problems. My 50D is no different in this regard. I'm not saying shit doesn't happen, just that FM is not an accurate measure of the actual amount of shit.



Oct 22, 2008 at 03:28 AM
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p.52 #7 · Canon EOS 50D Master thread


Update:
We just added the new Canon 50D to our gear review page.
https://www.fredmiranda.com/reviews/showproduct.php?product=366

If you already own it and would like to let everyone know your 2-cents worth, now is your chance to post a personal review by visiting our Reviews page.



Oct 22, 2008 at 01:46 PM
apdieb
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p.52 #8 · Canon EOS 50D Master thread


I posted a review but it doesn't show up.


Oct 22, 2008 at 04:31 PM
skibum5
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p.52 #9 · Canon EOS 50D Master thread


got to play around with one for a bit, teh good, the bad, and the ugly of it (not that there is that much of it yet since i was beat after 550 mile drive, little sleep and concentrating for hours on a mathematical seminar today so only did a little bit with it so far):

THE GOOD:


using top lenses (135L, 300 2.8 IS) at wide open (f/2 and f/2.8) they EASILY have enough resolution to provide very noticeably more detail than you get from them on a 20D (i didn't get to try other lenses in comparison yet or against the 40D yet). But yeah, with any top lens the detail on the 50D WILL totally blow away the detail on a 20D for sure, evn used at their worst setting (not that those two really have a bad setting....). I suspect you won't need top lenses for this to be the case.

you should, at least with better lenses, get much more detail on reach limited stuff, like birds, than on a 5DMkII since that has same reach as a 20D. And vastly more than on a 1DMkII for birds/sports.

it really is very nearly like a built in 1.4x TC compared to the 20D and yet without any loss of FOV.

liveview contrast AF is spectacularly accurate

use this or MF with 10x zoom to see what your lenses REALLY can do wide open (if you never tried MF or liveview or the new contrast focus you'll be shocked how appalingly bad the phase focus is in these cameras and how much better your lenses are than you might think- if you shoot super low DOF lenses at or near wide open)

the LCD is phenominal and as others said you can finally zoom all the way in and check focus details and so on, it is spectacular compared to the 20D or 40D

much faster focusing than a 20D for sure and perhaps a little bit faster than a 40D but....

THE UNSURE:
have done no high iso or low iso noise comparisons
have not compared color accuracy or saturation yet
have not done sports or birds in AI servo yet
have no compared overal image quality yet

highly tentatively ai servo might be a touch faster and it it seemed a touch more assured of itself in grabbibng one shot focus than a 40D not sure though but....

THE UGLY:


same old truly pathetic focus repeatability shooting very fast lenses wide open for subjects more than 8' away, especially once a bit more out like 30 yards+.

sadly the inconsistency, especially with poorly focusing lenses such as the 50mm f/1.4 is as horrible as ever, and worse, it seems to be more random than any reasonable microfocus adjustment, so that doesn't really solve the problem at all and some like the 50 appear to need different adjustments per distance to subject, what an ugly, ugly mess even with a prime, but it is so random it's hard to even be sure yet. In fairness to 50D the 40D is no better and the 20D isn't hot either.

shooting a simple tree 300' away against a bare background at f/1.4 or f/2, no distractions at all, is total random focus city, no better than 40D at all and at best equal to the 20D, just terrible, atrocious beyond words for all the xxD and iv'e tried a few copies of 20D and 40D and now one of the 50D. I seriously find it hard to believe the nikons could be remotely this poor.

one can only pray the 5DMKII will be better, maybe there is a reason they didnt use the xxD module in the 5dmkii as Chuck Westfall said....

i'm not even sure anymore that they designed the AF system to work well at low DOF with more distant subjects.

not that i have ever used a 5 series, so i can only hope they are vastly more repeatable accurate in one shot low DOF phase detection shooting.

or maybe canon AF just hates trees, i've had the most horrible time with AF any time i shoot trees or leaves or branches, etc. and now I've seen someone else mention this too (they said 5D does better with trees)

contrast AF in liveview focused on this tree like a charm though, so sharp at f/2 you can cut yourself and 100% repeatably so.

i have a fear that the VF MF might be rather off comapred to the sensor distance in this copy, but not sure yet

SUMMARY:

WAY more detail delivered than a 20D even with lenses wide open if they are top end ones (and likely the case for all but the lowest tier lenses or tough things like far corners of wide angles).

screen is awesome

liveview focusing while VERY slow is ULTRA ACCURATE

low DOF phase focusing still frustratingly atrocious beyond words as ever unless you only shoot certain types of subhects at certain distances. just atrocious as with all the other xxD and rebel cams.

anyway last statement is still tentative but appears likely true

much other stuff remaines to be looked into such as noise performance dynamic range color ai servo for sports

sorry for ranting about the phase AF but for some subjects it's just sooo bad with canon shooting wide open in many cases.



Oct 22, 2008 at 08:34 PM
apdieb
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p.52 #10 · Canon EOS 50D Master thread


The AF sensors on the 9pt system are bigger and often miss on subjects that are not filling enough of the frame. I find the AF system works well on distant objects, provided you have the lens/reach to fill a decent amount of the frame. I shot pro hockey game, airshow and a HS Football game with it and the 300IS F2.8 and it did remarkably well. I definitely saw drop off in the AF speed/accuracy though when not using a F2.8 or better lens. When I combined my 2x extender to make it F5.6, it noticeably dropped off. With the MKIII, it's AF continued to be fast and responsive at F5.6 (300 + 2X ext)...

I agree with the post above about using good lenses. This body shines when using nice primes.




Oct 22, 2008 at 11:19 PM
Ron Hew
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p.52 #11 · Canon EOS 50D Master thread


apdieb wrote:
The AF sensors on the 9pt system are bigger and often miss on subjects that are not filling enough of the frame. I find the AF system works well on distant objects, provided you have the lens/reach to fill a decent amount of the frame. I shot pro hockey game, airshow and a HS Football game with it and the 300IS F2.8 and it did remarkably well. I definitely saw drop off in the AF speed/accuracy though when not using a F2.8 or better lens. When I combined my 2x extender to make it F5.6, it noticeably dropped off. With
...Show more

+1



Oct 23, 2008 at 12:37 AM
skibum5
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p.52 #12 · Canon EOS 50D Master thread


apdieb wrote:
The AF sensors on the 9pt system are bigger and often miss on subjects that are not filling enough of the frame. I find the AF system works well on distant objects, provided you have the lens/reach to fill a decent amount of the frame. I shot pro hockey game, airshow and a HS Football game with it and the 300IS F2.8 and it did remarkably well. I definitely saw drop off in the AF speed/accuracy though when not using a F2.8 or better lens. When I combined my 2x extender to make it F5.6, it noticeably dropped off. With
...Show more

well the tree had nothing else around it but balnk sky and it was much larger than the center focus point area so it's kind of surprising that it caused so much trouble.

sometimes the cam would 'lock focus' and you look at the pic and the focus is off by plus or minus 50-80' on an object maybe 200-300' away.

all i know is i've seen all sorts of issues with the AF over the years for lenses with wide aps if you try to shoot as such and the subject is more than maybe 8's is or so away.

contrast AF nailed it 100% of the time, but phase.....

i would focus on something near swing up to the tree it would lock focus then repeat and get tack sharp, sharp, beyond a bur, blur, tack sharp, tack sharp, sharp, sharp, beyond a blur, blue, blur, tack sharp, tack sharp, tack sharp, blur, sharp, beyond a blur, sharp, sharp, sharp, blur, tack sharp, tack sharp, blur, tack sharp, tack sharp, tack sharp, beyomd a blue, tack sharp, tack sharp, blur, sharp, tack sharp, etc.

sometimes even worse, sometimes better

hitting the focus buttong multiple times on target didn't alter anything

livewview MF at 10x or liveview contrast AF was TS,TS,TS,TS,TS,TS,TS



Oct 23, 2008 at 01:26 AM
Daan B
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p.52 #13 · Canon EOS 50D Master thread


skibum5 wrote:
well the tree had nothing else around it but balnk sky and it was much larger than the center focus point area so it's kind of surprising that it caused so much trouble.

sometimes the cam would 'lock focus' and you look at the pic and the focus is off by plus or minus 50-80' on an object maybe 200-300' away.


To a certain degree this is what my 1Ds3 does too... I mean, focus inconsistencies when using fast lenses wide open with (low contrast) distant subjects. I usually try to put the AF point on the edge of the subject rather than to point it fully over the subject. This sometimes helps. My 5D was better in this regard. Although it did show worse AF with fast lenses wide open at closer distances...



Oct 23, 2008 at 01:45 AM
skibum5
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p.52 #14 · Canon EOS 50D Master thread


Daan B wrote:
To a certain degree this is what my 1Ds3 does too... I mean, focus inconsistencies when using fast lenses wide open with (low contrast) distant subjects. I usually try to put the AF point on the edge of the subject rather than to point it fully over the subject. This sometimes helps. My 5D was better in this regard. Although it did show worse AF with fast lenses wide open at closer distances...


whenver i can i try to use LV MF at 10x zoom or manual focus wth screen and now contrat focus for this stuff, but it would be nice if phase worked better.

a few quick samps from a few frames i have left:

135L f/2 at f/2 100% crops:
50D:
http://www.physics.unc.edu/~baum/test/testm/50Df2.jpg

20D:
http://www.physics.unc.edu/~baum/test/testm/20Df2.jpg

40D:
http://www.physics.unc.edu/~baum/test/testm/40Df2.jpg

some nice good in-focus shots using phase focus :
f/2:
http://www.physics.unc.edu/~baum/test/testm/50dsharpfocus1.jpg
f/1.4:
http://www.physics.unc.edu/~baum/test/testm/50sharpfocus2.jpg



Oct 23, 2008 at 02:16 AM
Gochugogi
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p.52 #15 · Canon EOS 50D Master thread


apdieb wrote:
I posted a review but it doesn't show up.


Yeah, I gave up on posting reviews. They seem to disappear. Waste of time.



Oct 23, 2008 at 02:24 AM
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p.52 #16 · Canon EOS 50D Master thread


I got a 50D Today, I got a good price, And I got sick of waiting for the 5D2, And will proberly get one later next year once the price settles, And it becomes more widely available.

Mine has FW 1.0.2 installed.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3170/2967011190_b67da70552.jpg





Edited on Oct 26, 2008 at 11:31 PM · View previous versions



Oct 23, 2008 at 02:50 AM
Daan B
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p.52 #17 · Canon EOS 50D Master thread


skibum5 wrote:
whenver i can i try to use LV MF at 10x zoom or manual focus wth screen and now contrat focus for this stuff, but it would be nice if phase worked better.


The phase detection AF seems way off... You are sure it is not a calibration issue? Have you tried slower lenses (f/2.8 or f/4)? Do you get better results that way?

If it is true what you are saying (I have no reason to doubt that ), it's a pity because the 50D appearantly really shines when using fast primes

For certain tasks LV + MF or contrast AF may work, but I wouldn't want to chase anything in a P&S like manner.

A cam with such a high pixel density and that many pixels needs high precision (phase detection) AF IMHO. Otherwise you will end up with big files that are worthless...



Oct 23, 2008 at 03:08 AM
skibum5
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p.52 #18 · Canon EOS 50D Master thread


Daan B wrote:
The phase detection AF seems way off... You are sure it is not a calibration issue? Have you tried slower lenses (f/2.8 or f/4)? Do you get better results that way?

If it is true what you are saying (I have no reason to doubt that ), it's a pity because the 50D appearantly really shines when using fast primes

For certain tasks LV + MF or contrast AF may work, but I wouldn't want to chase anything in a P&S like manner.

A cam with such a high pixel density and that many pixels needs high precision (phase detection) AF
...Show more

not all of the phase shts were that bad, but 25-70% were depending upon which lens and which tree target under which sun conditions, which seems pretty high for such a seemingly simple task, of course some were tkane with the 50mm 1.4 and that has always been a questionable lens.

as for calibration, i tried it at -20,-15,-10,-5,0,5,10,15,20 and at each step at least one out of 10 was tack sharp and at least 3-4 were not good, at the best setting more were good or close to good, but the randomness was so large with the 50mm that it was larger than the calibration scale since you could get tack sharp at both +20 and -20 and totally oof focus at any positions too.

For some reason trees and foliage seem to distub canon AF more than most subjects, so I wouldn't expect it to be this bad for all distant subjects and for closer shots of people and things it shouldn't be this bad either, still it is a bit unfortunate all the same and it can come into real world usage play.

abyway i'll test it much more completel over the next week or two including high level soccer.



Oct 23, 2008 at 03:48 AM
skibum5
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p.52 #19 · Canon EOS 50D Master thread


only had like 10 minutes to play around with it today:

for whatever reason the AF was more precise today on the exact same trees

yesterday the sky was blue behind the trees with golden light hitting them

today it was white sky behind them with less golden light

i didnt use the 50mm at all though and only shot for less than 10 minutes.

the 300 2.8 IS was focusing very well at f/2.8 (one shot mode, wide open, static trees for subjects, as opposed to full motion action trees, err, soccer players next week an dai servo)

anwyay here are some 100% crops taken using just the regular phase AF (not the liveview contrast):

300 2.8 IS + 1.4x TC wide open:
http://www.physics.unc.edu/~baum/test/testm/300tcwide.jpg


300 2.8 IS bare wide open:

http://www.physics.unc.edu/~baum/test/testm/300wide.jpg


certainly a good lens + a TC does not push anything past the edge of dimished returns, even wide open.

so yeah, the 15MP are NOT at all a waste, they give you lots more detail.

as usualy all the early samples showing like 6MP detail prove to be false, don't know what it is about early samples only getting ot people

hopefully the noise will turn out no worse, a tad suspicious it might be worse, and even more worried about banding, but haven't really looked into thtat yet, so it might just be nothing.

the detailed delivered is fantastic though, even with tele converters used on wide-open lenses which some claimed would be deliver no more than 10MP of detail, not so at all. Details totally blow away the 20D/30D and is considerably better than the 40D too, if not quite as absolutely incredibly dramatic as vs. the 20D.

For birds it's like a built-in 1.4x TC compared to a 20D but no stop of light loss or reduced AF.



Oct 23, 2008 at 06:07 PM
therock
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p.52 #20 · Canon EOS 50D Master thread


Bigger pictures, bigger noise particles?


Oct 23, 2008 at 08:10 PM
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