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jerrykur
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p.1 #1 · 5D to 1DSMK2?

Hi,

Someone has offered to sell me a 1DSMK2 for a good price. I am wondering if the 1DsMK2 is that much of a "upgrade" from my 5D. I do shoot in high ISO (1600 or 3200) a bit and I already have a 1DMK2 (I use it for sports and wildlife). Most of my shots are landscape, travel, and street. Any thoughts?

jerry

Jul 18, 2008 at 09:07 PM

perspective
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p.1 #2 · 5D to 1DSMK2?

jerrykur wrote:
Hi,

Someone has offered to sell me a 1DSMK2 for a good price. I am wondering if the 1DsMK2 is that much of a "upgrade" from my 5D. I do shoot in high ISO (1600 or 3200) a bit and I already have a 1DMK2 (I use it for sports and wildlife). Most of my shots are landscape, travel, and street. Any thoughts?

jerry

The 1Ds II has better IQ. I don't think the high ISO shots are quite as good noisewise but they're still pretty darn good. The AF on the 1Ds II is superior and the build of course is heads above the 5D. It's not a body I liked carrying around all day though, and I can carry a 5D all day no problem.

Jul 18, 2008 at 09:10 PM

John Power
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p.1 #3 · 5D to 1DSMK2?

I have had both and just bought another 1DSMK2. I will say that I never noticed a big difference in the IQ so I do not think that should be the theory for movin' on up (ala George Jefferson) but I prefer the build feel and controls of the 1 Series camera hence my decision. It is interesting that you can get a low click one now for about $3500 and the 5D was $3200 new. Of course it is $1500 used on B/S now...

Jul 18, 2008 at 09:11 PM

jerrykur
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p.1 #4 · 5D to 1DSMK2?

John Power wrote:
I have had both and just bought another 1DSMK2. I will say that I never noticed a big difference in the IQ so I do not think that should be the theory for movin' on up (ala George Jefferson) but I prefer the build feel and controls of the 1 Series camera hence my decision. It is interesting that you can get a low click one now for about $3500 and the 5D was $3200 new. Of course it is $1500 used on B/S now...

Thanks for the replies. I may just sit tight for now and see what the 5DMK2, 3D, 7D, or whatever it is called provides. This one is about $3300 with 52,000 actuations with a relatively recent shutter replacement. I still have the 1dMK2 for those time when I want a faster camera (shutter and AF), or I need to hammer in some nails.

Edited on Jul 18, 2008 at 10:24 PM

Jul 18, 2008 at 10:24 PM

choiboyogg
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p.1 #5 · 5D to 1DSMK2?

well i have both.
had the 5d for sometime and purchased a 1ds2 back in sept.
if you plan on shooting weddings with the 1ds2, id say reconsider it.
1. the files are overkill
2. the camera is too heavy, especially with the RRS L plate
3. the 1ds2 is not great in low light, 5d is much faster
4. lcd is so tiny, hard to see in bright light

otherwise, for portraits, the 1ds2 is much better.

if you can only have one, just ask yourself what you plan on shooting.

can be an upgrade, can be a downgrade

Jul 19, 2008 at 12:09 AM

John Power
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p.1 #6 · 5D to 1DSMK2?

choiboyogg wrote:
well i have both.
had the 5d for sometime and purchased a 1ds2 back in sept.
if you plan on shooting weddings with the 1ds2, id say reconsider it.
1. the files are overkill
2. the camera is too heavy, especially with the RRS L plate
3. the 1ds2 is not great in low light, 5d is much faster
4. lcd is so tiny, hard to see in bright light

otherwise, for portraits, the 1ds2 is much better.

if you can only have one, just ask yourself what you plan on shooting.

can be an upgrade, can be a downgrade

I guess that's why so many accomplished and highly skilled professional photographers use the 1DSMK2.

Edited on Jul 19, 2008 at 03:07 AM

Jul 19, 2008 at 03:07 AM

pipspeak
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p.1 #7 · 5D to 1DSMK2?

What's a good price?! The 5D might be slightly better at 3200 noise-wise but the 1Ds2 is very good at 1600 and excellent below. As has been shown in many a test, it also has about a stop more dynamic range than the 5D. Combined with the far superior AF and handling, this all makes it a big step up IMO. However, it is also a much heavier body.

You're probably wise to wait... unless you want a pro body, whatever replaces the 5D will be cheaper than a 1Ds2 and probably have as good, if not better, IQ.

Jul 19, 2008 at 07:01 AM

mttran
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p.1 #8 · 5D to 1DSMK2?

pipspeak wrote:
What's a good price?! The 5D might be slightly better at 3200 noise-wise but the 1Ds2 is very good at 1600 and excellent below. As has been shown in many a test, it also has about a stop more dynamic range than the 5D. Combined with the far superior AF and handling, this all makes it a big step up IMO. However, it is also a much heavier body.

You're probably wise to wait... unless you want a pro body, whatever replaces the 5D will be cheaper than a 1Ds2 and probably have as good, if not better, IQ.

+ 1, 1Ds series is totally different league to compare - i found out three years ago when trying 1d2 since then i can't go back but keep moving up

Edited on Jul 19, 2008 at 07:42 AM

Jul 19, 2008 at 07:41 AM

morganb4
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p.1 #9 · 5D to 1DSMK2?

Me:
1DII n
1DS II
1DIII
5D

The Mk3 is too troublesome to comment on, the 5D files are nice but I dispute that its actually better than the 1DsII. Out of all my pictures its the ones taken with the 1DsII that show the most flexibility in terms of denoising and other processing

Edited on Jul 19, 2008 at 08:40 AM

Jul 19, 2008 at 08:40 AM

choiboyogg
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p.1 #10 · 5D to 1DSMK2?

I guess that's why so many accomplished and highly skilled professional photographers use the 1DSMK2.

hey, i never said that it wasnt a fantastic camera or that ACCOMPLISHED OR HIGHLY SKILLED pro photograpers didnt use it.

you act like that the 1ds2 is the perfect camera and it just isnt.

you cant tell me that the 1ds2 is better in low light than the 5d.

thats why when i commented, i asked him what he plans on shooting.

the 1ds2 is not the end all of SLRs. it is an old camera and has its limitations

btw, pros do use other cameras.... sheesh, just cause its a 1DS2 doesnt mean that you are automatically pro staus.... and by your comment, i guess pros dont use anything else but 1ds cameras?

Edited on Jul 19, 2008 at 10:21 AM

Jul 19, 2008 at 10:12 AM

mttran
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p.1 #11 · 5D to 1DSMK2?

choiboyogg wrote:
I guess that's why so many accomplished and highly skilled professional photographers use the 1DSMK2.

hey, i never said that it wasnt a fantastic camera or that ACCOMPLISHED OR HIGHLY SKILLED pro photograpers didnt use it.

you act like that the 1ds2 is the perfect camera and it just isnt.

you cant tell me that the 1ds2 is better in low light than the 5d.

thats why when i commented, i asked him what he plans on shooting.

the 1ds2 is not the end all of SLRs. it is an old camera and has its limitations

btw, pros do use other cameras.... sheesh, just cause its a 1DS2 doesnt mean that you are automatically pro staus.... and by your comment, i guess pros dont use anything else but 1ds cameras?

I disagree - beside the IQ, 1ds2 keeper rate is ten times better than 5D for sure

Edited by mttran on Jul 19, 2008 at 02:47 AM GMT

Edited on Jul 19, 2008 at 10:47 AM

Jul 19, 2008 at 10:32 AM

John Power
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p.1 #12 · 5D to 1DSMK2?

Yes Andrew "its an old camera". You drew a lot of rather angry and argumentative conclusions from a poster who had the audacity to dispute your opinion. I am not "acting" like anything, I am not "telling" you anything and no camera is the "end all" of anything.

It would be interesting for someone to do a a study on front cover photos of various magazines taken with DSLRs and compare the number taken with a 1DSMK2 vis a vis the number taken with a 5D. Wonder which camera would win that competition. The 5D I am sure...Gee. Why does Canon even bother with the full frame DSLR series when the 5D is a better camera. Oh I know. Because so many people shoot in the rain and need to get their weightlifting workout.

I have had both cameras and each has their strong points.

Jul 19, 2008 at 01:04 PM

morganb4
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p.1 #13 · 5D to 1DSMK2?

choiboyogg wrote:
I guess that's why so many accomplished and highly skilled professional photographers use the 1DSMK2.

you cant tell me that the 1ds2 is better in low light than the 5d.

Atcually I know what I would rather use at ISO 1600. The thing is that the noise is a 1DsII file is not as destructive as that in a 5D, it cleans up better. I used think the same about the 5D beung better and wondered why I got the 1DsII but the more I used it, the more I realised how good a camera it is.

Jul 19, 2008 at 01:10 PM

K-Lex
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p.1 #14 · 5D to 1DSMK2?

In answer to the original question, I don't think that either camera is necessarily better than the other one. Both cameras are tried and tested -both have stood the test of time remarkably well. I'd be happy with either. The quality and pros and cons of either camera can be debated all day long and not reach a useful conclusion. Evaluate whether your current kit works for you - if it does, why change? If it doesn't - consider your alternatives.
Regarding the Mk2 being an old camera - so is the 5D. Doesn't stop either of them being good though.

Jul 19, 2008 at 03:50 PM

Evan Baines
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p.1 #15 · 5D to 1DSMK2?

I currently own: 1DIII, 1DsII, 5D, 30D.... at least for DSLRs

1DsII vs the 5D:

IQ: 1DsII wins by a little bit. Its not earth shaking. A little more DR if shot in RAW. I find the rendering a little more intangibly "film-like." The extra res is only a slight thing. High ISO wise there's a bit more noise but also a bit more detail. I consider it a wash there.

AF: 1DsII is much better on its cross-types, but I've actually found the outer-points less reliable than the 5D's outer points in mediocre to poor light. This was an issue for me when I was using fast primes (IE 85L) in low light and did not want to focus-recompose. The center points are certainly amazing, though.

Build/Handling: Build goes to the 1D hands down. Handling, I actually prefer the joystick AF point selection and the through-the-vf ISO selection of the 5D. I absolutely love my MKIII as the best of all worlds in this arena. The smaller VF on the 1DsII is also a noticeable drawback for me.

For wedding use, I objectively prefer the 5D when I have the ability to reach for either camera. I simply get better results with my 85L and 35L in low light with it. If I was more of a zoom-user (and not so apt to go quite so shallow) I might skew more towards the Ds. For portrait/studio use, the Ds is the clear winner.

Jul 19, 2008 at 03:59 PM

stanj
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p.1 #16 · 5D to 1DSMK2?

choiboyogg wrote:
you cant tell me that the 1ds2 is better in low light than the 5d.

Maybe I can't tell you, or rather, maybe you won't believe me, but I'll do it anyway.

Low light AF: 1Ds2 wins hands down without even breaking a sweat.

Noise: per-pixel noise: 5D wins. Given that both have the same crop factor (none), you can always frame the image the same way. The 1Ds2 has considerably more pixels, and it has been shown before that _overall_ noise (per pixel multiplied by number of pixels) is the same on the 1Ds2. So for pixel peeping, yes the 5D wins. For looking at the picture at the same size, on screen or print, the game is even.

So which part of "low light" is the 5D better?

Edited on Jul 19, 2008 at 04:30 PM

Jul 19, 2008 at 04:29 PM

choiboyogg
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p.1 #17 · 5D to 1DSMK2?

^stan, in my experience, which i have had two 1ds2's, given low light situations, the 1ds2 hunts quite a bit. it takes it considerably longer to hit a focus than the 5d with the same lens in the given conditions.

maybe its just the 2 cameras that i had but from what i was able to tell, 5d wins in this hands down.

my original post states that each camera has its strength and weakness. i never said that the 1ds2 was an inferior camera.

yes, it has better AF IQ given enough light, yes the 1ds2 has better resolution and build, etc...

Jul 19, 2008 at 06:06 PM

choiboyogg
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p.1 #18 · 5D to 1DSMK2?

John Power wrote:
Yes Andrew "its an old camera". You drew a lot of rather angry and argumentative conclusions from a poster who had the audacity to dispute your opinion. I am not "acting" like anything, I am not "telling" you anything and no camera is the "end all" of anything.

It would be interesting for someone to do a a study on front cover photos of various magazines taken with DSLRs and compare the number taken with a 1DSMK2 vis a vis the number taken with a 5D. Wonder which camera would win that competition. The 5D I am sure...Gee. Why does Canon even bother with the full frame DSLR series when the 5D is a better camera. Oh I know. Because so many people shoot in the rain and need to get their weightlifting workout.

I have had both cameras and each has their strong points.

sorry john, seriously when i wrote that post, i just got back from the OC fair and it was like 3am. i had a lot of fried food and i was very tired.

i really didnt mean to come off as angry but when i read it this morning, i guess it did.

i mean no harm.

Jul 19, 2008 at 06:08 PM

dave chilvers
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p.1 #19 · 5D to 1DSMK2?

Having had most canon DSLR`s and still have quite a few I have stated on other threads that taking everything into consideration the 1dsmk2 is the best compromise of all of them (don`t forget taking everything into condsideration) and that includes the 1dsmk3.

You don`t see many for sale and mine sure aint

Just my view

Dave

Jul 19, 2008 at 06:16 PM

Brent Ward
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p.1 #20 · 5D to 1DSMK2?

If you shoot with studio strobes the flash sync difference alone is worth it.

The 1ds II files take more PP to get to the same point as the 5d straight from camera, but there is a quality improvement when it's done.

Jul 19, 2008 at 06:19 PM

choiboyogg
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p.1 #21 · 5D to 1DSMK2?

^amen to that brent.
the files do take more work but thats apart of the challenge.

Edited on Jul 19, 2008 at 06:23 PM

Jul 19, 2008 at 06:22 PM

John Power
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p.1 #22 · 5D to 1DSMK2?

choiboyogg wrote:
John Power wrote:
Yes Andrew "its an old camera". You drew a lot of rather angry and argumentative conclusions from a poster who had the audacity to dispute your opinion. I am not "acting" like anything, I am not "telling" you anything and no camera is the "end all" of anything.

It would be interesting for someone to do a a study on front cover photos of various magazines taken with DSLRs and compare the number taken with a 1DSMK2 vis a vis the number taken with a 5D. Wonder which camera would win that competition. The 5D I am sure...Gee. Why does Canon even bother with the full frame DSLR series when the 5D is a better camera. Oh I know. Because so many people shoot in the rain and need to get their weightlifting workout.

I have had both cameras and each has their strong points.

sorry john, seriously when i wrote that post, i just got back from the OC fair and it was like 3am. i had a lot of fried food and i was very tired.

i really didnt mean to come off as angry but when i read it this morning, i guess it did.

i mean no harm.

No problem. I never take the occasional barking back and forth on here very seriously except with one individual. The only individual on FM I just do not like and I am sure the feeling is mutual. A shame ain't it...because I generally like everyone, even those who give me occasional (oft-deserved) sh----

Jul 19, 2008 at 07:19 PM

John Power
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p.1 #23 · 5D to 1DSMK2?

Brent Ward wrote:
If you shoot with studio strobes the flash sync difference alone is worth it.

The 1ds II files take more PP to get to the same point as the 5d straight from camera, but there is a quality improvement when it's done.

If you say it Brent, I believe it....

Jul 19, 2008 at 07:20 PM

stanj
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p.1 #24 · 5D to 1DSMK2?

choiboyogg wrote:
^stan, in my experience, which i have had two 1ds2's, given low light situations, the 1ds2 hunts quite a bit. it takes it considerably longer to hit a focus than the 5d with the same lens in the given conditions.

maybe its just the 2 cameras that i had but from what i was able to tell, 5d wins in this hands down.

my original post states that each camera has its strength and weakness. i never said that the 1ds2 was an inferior camera.

yes, it has better AF IQ given enough light, yes the 1ds2 has better resolution and build, etc...

Oh, no worries, I don't take such things personally. It's that my 5D could not touch my 1Ds2 in low light, just as the 40D can't touch the 1Ds3. I have found that hunting greatly depended on the lens used - e.g., tons of hunting with the 50/1.4 and much less with the 50/1.2. Way bigger difference than the 1/3 stop would suggest. Why? I don't know. I am just observing.

IQ is separate from AF, though. And even in bad light, if focused and exposed properly, the 1Ds2 image will be at least a match for the 5D image. Again, per pixel vs. per area noise.

And I do agree that the 1Ds2 is the best compromise, including the 1Ds3.

Jul 19, 2008 at 07:27 PM

Alan321
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p.1 #25 · 5D to 1DSMK2?

The 5D AF system is supposed to include a central sensor that is better for grabbing focus in significant de-focus situations. The 1Ds2 doesn't do that. The difference is irrelevant when the subject is close enough to being in focus or so far out that both cameras have to initiate a lens focus search.

I think too that some of the outer linear AF sensors on the 5D are vertical and some are horizontal. If that is so then it differs from the Ds2 in which they are all vertical (when they are not cross-types). This can affect AF performance for the better or the worse depending on the relative orientation of the edges being focused on, especially in lower light or lower contrast.

The AF computing horsepower in the 1Ds2 is better than in the 5D.

Some people have reported in the past that the 5D AF is more likely to succeed in very low light but it is also less decisive than the 1Ds2. They reported that the 1Ds2 will either work or fail but is less likely to be undecided like the 5D can be.

The size and weight of the 1Ds2 is not such a great penalty over the 5D once you add a big enough lens and monopod or tripod. With a smal lens the difference can be significant.

I have a 1Ds2 but have never used a 5D.

The 1Ds2 will put more pixels onto a duck than the 5D or 1D2 will with the same lens focal length and shooting position. It gives more cropping or framing room than the 1D2 but the same as the 5D.

According to Pondria's dynamic range database the 1Ds2 offers about one stop more of useful (clean) dynamic range in raw files than either the 5D or 1D2 --- 9 2/3 vs 8 1/3 stops. The 1Ds2 is about the best in the list. In-camera jpegs don't allow that much DR and the apparent IQ differences are smaller.

1Ds2 and 1D2 in-camera jpegs can look a bit soft but jpegs converted from raw files are sharper. It's something to do with the in-camera processing rather than the AA filter.

The pro cameras tend to do less noise reduction than other cameras but also lose less fine detail in the process. That means that dedicated external noise reduction software can produce better images but the in-camera results can look cleaner with the 5D. I prefer to keep all of the detail and clean it up later rather than have the camera discard it to make things look cleaner initially. Your preference may be affected by the number of shots you take and how much time you have for processing images.

The cameras have different size LCD screens but they are all 230k pixels and in any case they are all looking at the same 1.5k pixel highly compressed raw file thumbnails. None of them are great and none of them show you what is really in the file.

A 1Ds2, like the 1D2, is somewhat more customisable than a 5D. That could be a benefit if the possibilities appeal to you.

- Alan

Jul 19, 2008 at 09:41 PM


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