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louis fusco Offline Image Upload: On p.1 #1 · difraction on a d3 does the d3 start to get soft past f13 like my d200 or can it handle smaller apertures better? ta Jul 16, 2008 at 04:02 PM

HerbChong Offline Image Upload: On p.1 #2 · difraction on a d3 it works more or less exactly the same as a film body. the same degree of diffraction effects occur about 1 stop more stopped down than a DX body. Herb... Jul 16, 2008 at 04:06 PM

louis fusco Offline Image Upload: On p.1 #3 · difraction on a d3 so f22 looks pretty good? happy days. Jul 16, 2008 at 04:27 PM

Andre Labonte Offline Image Upload: Off p.1 #4 · difraction on a d3 On a practical level, Herb is correct. Technically, the diffraction limits of an optical system are determined by the pixel size in the sensor and the wavelength of the light. Here is a table I put together for this purpose based on the laws of diffraction. The smaller pixel = D300 and the larger pixel is either the D70s or the D3 ... I don't remember witch I was using. The most reliable result is the average of the 1-pixel number. Jul 16, 2008 at 04:32 PM

panos.v Offline Image Upload: Off p.1 #5 · difraction on a d3 louis fusco wrote: so f22 looks pretty good? happy days. It also depends on the lens. Jul 16, 2008 at 04:33 PM

HerbChong Offline Image Upload: On p.1 #6 · difraction on a d3 since i never go below f13 on a FX body, i'll never know. Herb... louis fusco wrote: so f22 looks pretty good? happy days. Jul 16, 2008 at 05:01 PM

louis fusco Offline Image Upload: On p.1 #7 · difraction on a d3 panos.v wrote: louis fusco wrote: so f22 looks pretty good? happy days. It also depends on the lens. 105 micro/ 85 D 1.4/ 50 ais Jul 16, 2008 at 05:05 PM

molson Offline Image Upload: On p.1 #8 · difraction on a d3 panos.v wrote: It also depends on the lens. That's correct, diffraction is a characteristic of the lens, not the sensor. Edited on Jul 17, 2008 at 12:32 PM Jul 17, 2008 at 12:31 PM

Andre Labonte Offline Image Upload: Off p.1 #9 · difraction on a d3 molson wrote: panos.v wrote: It also depends on the lens. That's correct, diffraction is a characteristic of the lens, not the sensor. Diffraction is a function of aperture not focal length. If there is lens dependence, then that means there is something else in the optics causing an issue (i.e. perfect optics are diffraction limited). And, diffraction issues most definitely depends on the sensor. Optics 101. Edited on Jul 17, 2008 at 01:37 PM Jul 17, 2008 at 01:35 PM

James R Online Image Upload: On p.1 #10 · difraction on a d3 OK, I'm confused. Diffraction is the bending of light. So how does a sensor bend light? I thought it is a product of the lens. The sensor size only impacts the lens diffraction performance. Edited on Jul 17, 2008 at 02:00 PM Jul 17, 2008 at 02:00 PM

panos.v Offline Image Upload: Off p.1 #11 · difraction on a d3 Andre Labonte wrote: molson wrote: panos.v wrote: It also depends on the lens. That's correct, diffraction is a characteristic of the lens, not the sensor. Diffraction is a function of aperture not focal length. If there is lens dependence, then that means there is something else in the optics causing an issue (i.e. perfect optics are diffraction limited). And, diffraction issues most definitely depends on the sensor. Optics 101. The bigger the sensor the later diffraction has effect. The same lens will be diffraction limited at a smaller aperture in a bigger sensor. I think the accepted result is that FX has a one stop advantage over DX for diffraction. So if your image becomes smooth mash at f/11 on your D300, it will still be chunky mashed potatoes on the D3 and will be back to smooth mash at f/16. Furthermore, different lenses have slightly different diffraction limits, depending on their design, after all, they're not all equally sharp to begin with. Jul 17, 2008 at 02:12 PM

Andre Labonte Offline Image Upload: Off p.1 #12 · difraction on a d3 panos.v wrote: Andre Labonte wrote: molson wrote: panos.v wrote: It also depends on the lens. That's correct, diffraction is a characteristic of the lens, not the sensor. Diffraction is a function of aperture not focal length. If there is lens dependence, then that means there is something else in the optics causing an issue (i.e. perfect optics are diffraction limited). And, diffraction issues most definitely depends on the sensor. Optics 101. The bigger the sensor the later diffraction has effect. The same lens will be diffraction limited at a smaller aperture in a bigger sensor. I think the accepted result is that FX has a one stop advantage over DX for diffraction. So if your image becomes smooth mash at f/11 on your D300, it will still be chunky mashed potatoes on the D3 and will be back to smooth mash at f/16. Furthermore, different lenses have slightly different diffraction limits, depending on their design, after all, they're not all equally sharp to begin with. That is correct. For a given Mega-pixel value, sensor size matters because of its effect on pixel size. Ultimately, it is the size of the pixels. You will start to see the effects of diffraction sooner with smaller pixels. So while smaller pixels for a given format (i.e. more MP) provide greater resolution, that greater resolution can only be realized if the chosen aperture (actually it's f-stop) can support that resolution. This of course assumes a print size that allows you to see the effects as well. As for the effects of lenses, again, if the lenses are not diffraction limited, the lens will matter. Most lenses are not diffraction limited, though some of the new lenses are approaching that limit. My table assumes diffraction limited optics. Edited on Jul 17, 2008 at 03:01 PM Jul 17, 2008 at 03:00 PM

louis fusco Offline Image Upload: On p.1 #13 · difraction on a d3 ok, is the new vr 105 micro any better than the previous D lens on the d3? Jul 17, 2008 at 03:47 PM

George61d Offline Image Upload: Off p.1 #14 · difraction on a d3 This is the best article on the matter that I have seen so far http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/diffraction-photography.htm Jul 17, 2008 at 04:47 PM

AZRich Offline Image Upload: On p.1 #15 · difraction on a d3 How about T&S lenses, how does that figure in? (I thought this discussion was too clear and wanted to fog it up a bit!) Rich Jul 17, 2008 at 04:55 PM

HerbChong Offline Image Upload: On p.1 #16 · difraction on a d3 no change in diffraction. other changes, but not diffraction ones. Herb... Jul 17, 2008 at 05:06 PM

Andre Labonte Offline Image Upload: Off p.1 #17 · difraction on a d3 George61d wrote: This is the best article on the matter that I have seen so far http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/diffraction-photography.htm Very nice article. And go figure, his numbers and mine match if you correct for wavelength! Edited on Jul 17, 2008 at 05:53 PM Jul 17, 2008 at 05:52 PM

gfiksel Offline Image Upload: On p.1 #18 · difraction on a d3 Andre Labonte wrote: That is correct. For a given Mega-pixel value, sensor size matters because of its effect on pixel size. Ultimately, it is the size of the pixels... Not really. Well, it is, but only if you're peaking at 100% on the monitor. Or, print really big. For reasonably sized prints the determining factor is the CoC, which is larger than the pixel size (unless you print really big). Thus, you can close the aperture more than calculated based on pixel size. Jul 17, 2008 at 08:51 PM

Andre Labonte Offline Image Upload: Off p.1 #19 · difraction on a d3 gfiksel wrote: Andre Labonte wrote: That is correct. For a given Mega-pixel value, sensor size matters because of its effect on pixel size. Ultimately, it is the size of the pixels... Not really. Well, it is, but only if you're peaking at 100% on the monitor. Or, print really big. For reasonably sized prints the determining factor is the CoC, which is larger than the pixel size (unless you print really big). Thus, you can close the aperture more than calculated based on pixel size. I did say that print size had to be large enough to see the effects AND that I was speaking of diffraction limited optics. I don't think it takes pixel peeping at 100% to see it either. But you do bring up a good point, so many people worry about going past the diffraction limit without realizing that their assumed CoC is actaully larger than the AD. And yet, the image looks good. Edited on Jul 17, 2008 at 10:31 PM Jul 17, 2008 at 10:29 PM

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