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Archive 2008 · BIF with 100-400L

troy12n
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p.1 #1 · BIF with 100-400L

Just got my 100-400L on Friday and spent the weekend getting to get a feel for it. First impressions was how much bigger and heavier it is than my next largest lens 70-200/4L. Also the push-pull zoom is taking some getting used to. For the most part, I really like this lens, the only thing I dont seems to be the focusing speed. But from what I have read, it seems to be the M.O. for this lens. I shoot with a 40D usually in AI-Focus mode, but when trying to shoot BIF's, I switch over to AI-Servo. It seems here at times the lens really hunts, especially when a bird would fly over a light background like a cloud. Is this a limitation of the lens, or the camera body? It seems to get confused at times. Anyone have some advice on this? I was considering the EF 400/5.6 prime and this lens, and for its versatility I am glad I picked the 100-400. But after a few days of handholding this thing all day, I am SORE!!!! The end of today, I pulled out my 400D which is now my backup body, and put the 70-200/4 on it and it was like I was holding a P&S it was so light (relatively speaking) and nimble feeling.

Jul 02, 2008 at 03:16 AM

troy12n
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p.1 #2 · BIF with 100-400L

Oh, also, I am the guy who posted about the UPS tracking listing my shippment involved in a "train derailment". The package showed up just fine, no sign of trauma on the box or contents.

Jul 02, 2008 at 03:17 AM

Greg Feldman
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p.1 #3 · BIF with 100-400L

How are you selecting focus points in AI Servo? It matters. The 100-400 will do just fine for birds in flight.

Jul 02, 2008 at 03:18 AM

TrojanHorse
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p.1 #4 · BIF with 100-400L

Um... servo mode - uses the center spot only until it locks on and then should use all 9 sensors to track the object. Once it does that you should be good to go, but I'm not sure how you are supposed to tell it's locked on. I have had issues in the past if I get focus and then let the lens wander off the subject a bit, it'll go focus on something else. I imagine with BIF it's more challenging. The longest lens I'm using now is the 70-200 f4 and you obviously know all about that one.

Ha - UPS. I ordered some stuff from newegg last Wednesday - 3 business day select. Newegg is in LA, I'm in LA, it usually takes a day to get here. Then my package showed up in Albuquerque! It should arrive tomorrow on the modified 5 day unselect program. Ugh, UPS used to be really reliable, they're starting to flake a bit. Still probably better than FedEx for ground though.

Jul 02, 2008 at 03:23 AM

Greg Feldman
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p.1 #5 · BIF with 100-400L

TrojanHorse wrote:
Um... servo mode - uses the center spot only until it locks on and then should use all 9 sensors to track the object.

My bad--I was thinking 1D, not 40D. I have no idea how the 40D works.

Jul 02, 2008 at 03:30 AM

burningheart
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p.1 #6 · BIF with 100-400L

To lighten the lens weight some remove the tripod mount. I've done this on several lenses that is used for handheld shots.

Jul 02, 2008 at 03:32 AM

PetKal
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p.1 #7 · BIF with 100-400L

IMO, while the 40D AF servo is OK, I have no patience to shoot smaller and/or faster flying birds with the 100-400. So what you are experiencing now is more-or-less normal for that camera-lens combination.

Again, with sufficient application/persistence anything could be made to work, and I have no doubts that people can show BIF shot keepers obtained even with the 65mm prime, however, more suitable tools such as the 400 f/5.6 make the task easier.

Speed and agility are not the zoom's strengths.

Jul 02, 2008 at 03:38 AM

troy12n
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p.1 #8 · BIF with 100-400L

I was using center focus point only, and attempting to keep the bird "centered". I guess I can select all focus points and try that. I just dont like shooting that way normally

Jul 02, 2008 at 03:40 AM

Jim Victory
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p.1 #9 · BIF with 100-400L

troy12n wrote:
I was using center focus point only, and attempting to keep the bird "centered". I guess I can select all focus points and try that. I just dont like shooting that way normally

I wouldn't use all focus points if you have a cluttered background because it is more likely to lock on the background.

It will works ok for a blue sky but I prefer using the center focus point only and bumping the focus to keep it locked.

Jim

Jul 02, 2008 at 03:57 AM

Andy Wilson
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p.1 #10 · BIF with 100-400L

You should be able to get some good BIFs with this lens and the 40D although the 400 is even better.

I think its a case of practice practice, practice and accept a few will still get away that you might have got with a 1D Mkiii (or not

)

This one was with the 100-400 on a lowly 10D.

This image is copyrighted by the owner

and this with the same lens on the 20D

This image is copyrighted by the owner

Jul 02, 2008 at 03:58 AM

troy12n
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p.1 #11 · BIF with 100-400L

here are the "best" ones I was able to get today. They were shot RAW, converted to jpeg, and cropped, no post processing other than raw conversion and jpegging...

This image is copyrighted by the owner

Edited on Jul 02, 2008 at 04:15 AM

Jul 02, 2008 at 04:13 AM

Pixel Perfect
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p.1 #12 · BIF with 100-400L

Glad to see I'm not the only one not getting very good results with the 40D + 100-400 combo, I thought it was just me or the camera.

Wow troy they suck. That combo isn't even acquiring a semblance of focus. Mine's not that bad, just keeps focusing ahea dor behind where I want but only in AI servo, one shot is fine.

Jul 02, 2008 at 04:21 AM

troy12n
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p.1 #13 · BIF with 100-400L

There are so many factors in play with these types of shots, its hard to track down.

1. limitations of the camera AF system
2. misalligned / malfunctioning camera AF system
3. limitations of the lens (af speed insufficient)
4. malfunctioning lens focus (front/back focusing, needs calibration)
5. user error (camera not held steady enough)
6. incorrect camera or lens settings
7.

I was using IS mode 2, btw...

Jul 02, 2008 at 04:34 AM

yauyi
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p.1 #14 · BIF with 100-400L

I'd tried to do BIF with the 40D + 100-400L combo awhile back and finally gave up, unless you're shooting very large bird filling most of the frame otherwise the AF speed from this lens ain't going to cut it, the better option is either 300 F4 or 400 5.6 for BIF.

BTW, generally you should get higher keeper rate with 40D + prime than a 1D series + 100-400L for BIF.

Edited by yauyi on Jul 02, 2008 at 04:58 AM GMT

Edited on Jul 02, 2008 at 04:58 AM

Jul 02, 2008 at 04:40 AM

emonzon
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p.1 #15 · BIF with 100-400L

For bigger birds the 100-400mm can hold it's own, but as others have already mentioned AF isn't it's strong point for BIF especially if they are smaller birds. I've found using AI servo and center point focus gave the best results but would sometimes use all AF points for larger birds like Herons.

GBH

Jul 02, 2008 at 04:51 AM

PetKal
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p.1 #16 · BIF with 100-400L

Here are a few suggestions:
* use center AF point only.
* set the lens distance limiter right.
* prefocus the lens to the approximate distance of the first "contact" with the bird.
* use IS mode 1.
* maximize DoF
* shoot in Tv mode, min 1/1250 sec.
* Job No.#1 is: keep the center AF on the bird steady as if your life depends on it. As soon as you slip off, go back and refocus.
* Start shooting in single shot mode, then increase to 3 FPS.....keep a watchful eye on focus maintenance while firing....that means developing control as opposed to "spray and pray" affliction.

Jul 02, 2008 at 04:51 AM

yauyi
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p.1 #17 · BIF with 100-400L

But for still subject, this lens kicks ass!

100% crop Handheld 1/80s f/5.6 @400mm

100% crop Handheld 1/60s f/5.6 @400mm

I love this lens, obviously hand held technique play a major role in getting decent sharpness in such low shutter speed, but then anything lower than 1/60s will result in motion blur from these small birds.

Jul 02, 2008 at 04:55 AM

PetKal
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p.1 #18 · BIF with 100-400L

Yauyi, that's pretty impressive, especially at such low shutter speeds.

Jul 02, 2008 at 05:10 AM

TrojanHorse
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p.1 #19 · BIF with 100-400L

I don't know if I'd say they suck... the first one's pretty good, but you're at 1/400 and shooting at 400 mm or so. IS or no IS, that's going to result in some motion blur.

The second one,well, that's out to lunch. Who knows what the problem is there, maybe you coughed.

Jul 02, 2008 at 05:24 AM

perspective
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p.1 #20 · BIF with 100-400L

Those shots are truly OOF so I see why you are worried. I'd shoot ai-servo, multi-shot (H), center point only and set the IS to mode 2 (although I have had good results with both) and a shutter speed of no less than 1/400 but 1/800 and higher is best I think. Perhaps it's your body at fault - how extensively have you tested both the body and lens for critical focusing ability?

I took some pelican shots today with my 5D and 100-400 before a film crew asked me to go another part of the beach. Anyway, I didn't have any trouble getting good focus on fast moving birds. Here's an example showing a shot I got with just 1-2 seconds to lock on, focus and shoot. It's not the best composition but I thought it could at least help demonstrate that the 100-400 can take BIF shots without much trouble. The focus point is on the bird's beak and eye. The wings are blurry because they are both out of the DOF of the aperture I used and my shutterspeed was low. The body and beak are plenty sharp though.

This isn't a classic birding lens and people will steer you to primes and they are right. However, I find this lens works a lot better than I've been told and I use it a lot with good results.

2008 © perspective

Edited on Jul 02, 2008 at 06:47 AM

Jul 02, 2008 at 06:32 AM

old yorker
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p.1 #21 · BIF with 100-400L

First point is you only just got the lens, so save yourself some angst and assume you have some learning & practice to do, not that your camera/lens is/are faulty.

Use one of the tracking AF modes, leave IS off (delays the start of AF), choose centre point & set your * button for AF. When the focus drifts off the bird, drop your thumb from the * button so the AF doesn't wander too far away. Re-engage AF when the bird is in frame & close to focus again.

I'm not saying that these are the best settings, but it might be a place to start while you practice. Birds in flight is hard, so practice is the main thing. If you have large close birds, use your 70-200.

Jul 02, 2008 at 07:58 AM

Liquidstone
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p.1 #22 · BIF with 100-400L

PetKal wrote:
Here are a few suggestions:
* use center AF point only.
* set the lens distance limiter right.
* prefocus the lens to the approximate distance of the first "contact" with the bird.
* use IS mode 1.
* maximize DoF
* shoot in Tv mode, min 1/1250 sec.
* Job No.#1 is: keep the center AF on the bird steady as if your life depends on it. As soon as you slip off, go back and refocus.
* Start shooting in single shot mode, then increase to 3 FPS.....keep a watchful eye on focus maintenance while firing....that means developing control as opposed to "spray and pray" affliction.

Great advice, Pete! Any BIF sample shots using those settings, especially with mode 1 IS used?

Jul 02, 2008 at 08:53 AM

astrolucida
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p.1 #23 · BIF with 100-400L

troy12n wrote:
I was using IS mode 2, btw...

I wouldn't use IS with flying birds - only with stationary ones. The problem being that birds don't usually travel only horizontally or vertically but almost always diagonally, and also with changing speed. Under those circumstances even IS mode 2 does not help. Usually when I get blurry images with my IS lenses it's because IS has been left on for a moving subject (or the IS hasn't had time to settle down).

My advice: turn the IS off until you master BIF. Also, use exposure times shorter than 1/1000s, preferably even 1/2000s. Then you have eliminated two of the most common problems with BIFs.

Also, center point only, AF Servo. Learn to keep the focus point on the bird. It takes practice, practice and practice. AF should be fast enough if you are following the bird and keeping the focus point on the bird, because then it's only doing incremental changes.

Heck, I have been able to follow flying birds with a 10D plus 400f2.8L II + 2x TC! You really cannot talk about fast AF with that combination. Though, the success rate wasn't exactly high (maybe 1 in 10), but that was also due to my inexperience. BIF is a really difficult thing to do.

Edited on Jul 02, 2008 at 09:48 AM

Jul 02, 2008 at 09:47 AM

hfillmore
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p.1 #24 · BIF with 100-400L

I blew a whole aftermoon of surfing shots once because my focus range switch on my tele was set too close, or had accidentally been knocked between 2 ranges. Out of about 500 shots, maybe 5 were in focus. A few weeks ago my 400 5.6 with 1.4 converter was focusing erratically - turned out to be the tape that I used over the sensor pins to allow the converter to work had worn out. It could be so many nutty little things like that. If IS is on, and doesn't have a chance to "settle down" before the shot is taken, it has blurred some of my shots. You might try checking all your switches, and then tape them before you go out. Something I've been intending to do, but haven't actually done yet, so s*** just keeps on happening.

Jul 02, 2008 at 10:33 AM

Liquidstone
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p.1 #25 · BIF with 100-400L

astrolucida wrote:
I wouldn't use IS with flying birds - only with stationary ones.

I also turn IS off at BIFs if I get a shutter speed of say 1/400 sec or faster. I'm wondering though if Pete has discovered a better way to do it with his suggestion of mode 1 IS at BIFs.

Jul 02, 2008 at 11:43 AM


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