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Steve Spencer
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p.4 #1 · Bag for Camera & Gun - Wait, hear me out!


trebuchet wrote:
My question to you is, How many people are killed in this country every day by legal gun owners with legally owned firearms.


I don't think anyone can answer your specific question, because when the FBI that compiles the statistics on gun deaths collects the data they don't collect whether the gun was legally owned in examining each death. Let me summarize what is know about gun deaths in the U.S. About 30,000 people a year die as a result of being shot. About 55 percent of these deaths are suicides, about 40 percent are homicides (This is a homicide in the way coroners classify a death, it does not necessary mean a murder. It means that one person intentionally caused the death of another, but this may be justifiable homicide or self-defense, etc.) and the rest are unclassified or accidents. If you want these numbers broken down by day there are about 84 people a day who die as a result of being shot each day, 46 suicides, 34 homicides, and 4 accidents or unclassified deaths.

As a comparison there are about 45,000 motor vehicle deaths a year, 15,000 people who die from falls, 4,000 people who drown, 3000 people who die in fires, and 500 who die from electrocution.

There are arguments that suggest that gun ownership may be related to increased deaths. The primary evidence is that when comparing across countries the more legally owned guns in a country the higher the homicide rate. The trouble with all such relationships, however, is that it is hard to know what causes what. In countries that have higher legal gun ownership there is also probably much higher illegal gun ownership (although this is of course hard to quantify--you don't get a straight answer on a survey when you ask people the question of how many illegal guns they own). There are also compelling counter examples to the general trend. For example, Israel has an extremely high rate of legal gun ownership (much higher than the U.S.), but an extremely low rate of homicide deaths by guns. How do you interpret this unusual case? Well it might be that the very high implementation of security measures in Israel dramatically lowers the homicide deaths by guns, which seems fairly reasonable. Others, however, note that all Israeli citizens (both men and women) are required to serve two years in the military as early adults and therefore get a fairly sophisticated education in how to handle a gun and its proper use.

So, there are obviously strong opinions on both sides of this issue and the data in my mind do not clearly resolve the issue. On a personal note, I don't have any axe to grind in this debate. I grew up in the U.S. and had six or seven guns (no hand guns, however because I could never shoot them a lick). I enjoyed having the guns and shooting them. Now, however, I lived in Canada for about 12 years and don't have a gun and have not bothered to go through the hassle of trying to get one. I don't miss it much at all and I appreciate that Canada has a murder rate that is 1/10th per capita (overall 1/100th) the murder rate in the U.S. That is a good thing whether or not it is caused by more restrictions on guns or not.

May 17, 2008 at 02:00 PM
Craig Gillette
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p.4 #2 · Bag for Camera & Gun - Wait, hear me out!


The National Safety Council compiles "accidental" injury and death statistics. They also include intentional (usually criminal but also legal interventions, etc.,) stats. The rates for accidental deaths or injuries have been going down for years. Most of the "accidents" are related to hunting, hunting participation has been dropping off. The accidents have fallen off faster than the numbers of hunters.

Firearms don't "go off by themselves" any more than cameras take pictures by themselves.

And no, firearms don't need to be regulated like cars and drivers. Unless you think that there are no drivers without licenses, w/o mandatory insurance and that cars are never used in crimes nor stolen because they are so easily identified and traced to their owners.

May 17, 2008 at 04:26 PM
Craig Gillette
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p.4 #3 · Bag for Camera & Gun - Wait, hear me out!


As to laws, it would be educational for some to look at the effective compliance rates with Canadian registration requirements.

May 17, 2008 at 04:27 PM
David Baldwin
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p.4 #4 · Bag for Camera & Gun - Wait, hear me out!


Surreal thread. Just remember that Photoshop's healing brush tool doesn't work on real bullet wounds.

Happy shooting, oops, happy photography.

May 17, 2008 at 04:46 PM
trebuchet
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p.4 #5 · Bag for Camera & Gun - Wait, hear me out!


Craig Gillette wrote:

And no, firearms don't need to be regulated like cars and drivers. Unless you think that there are no drivers without licenses, w/o mandatory insurance and that cars are never used in crimes nor stolen because they are so easily identified and traced to their owners.



Actually, I think they SHOULD be treated like drivers licenses. That way my CT pistol permit would be legal in all 50 states, just like my CT driver's license is legal in all 50.


YMMV though...

May 17, 2008 at 05:19 PM
wing tong
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p.4 #6 · Bag for Camera & Gun - Wait, hear me out!


This whole comparison between guns and cars is laughable! I've never seen anyone put their kids in their GUN and take them to the soccer game? The fact of the matter is, 99.9% of guns' purpose in life is to kill and be killed. Period. 'Nuf said.

May 17, 2008 at 05:46 PM
Marc Kurth
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p.4 #7 · Bag for Camera & Gun - Wait, hear me out!


A guy asks for help in how to carry the combination of his weapon and cameras.

Funny how some people insist on preaching about their views in lieu of just passing it by since they couldn't help with the question.

May 17, 2008 at 07:39 PM
Nill Toulme
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p.4 #8 · Bag for Camera & Gun - Wait, hear me out!


Shane I certainly agree with you on all your points about cars, drivers, and driver training. ;-)

What percentage of the guns on the street in DC do you suppose come from Virginia?

Nill
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Edited on May 17, 2008 at 08:24 PM


May 17, 2008 at 08:23 PM
Nill Toulme
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p.4 #9 · Bag for Camera & Gun - Wait, hear me out!


trebuchet wrote:
My question to you is, How many people are killed in this country every day by legal gun owners with legally owned firearms.


I should think the more pertinent question might be, how many people are killed or injured in this country by initially legally obtained firearms, as opposed to the number who are actually protected from death or injury by having such weapons?

Nill
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May 17, 2008 at 08:28 PM
Nill Toulme
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p.4 #10 · Bag for Camera & Gun - Wait, hear me out!


Marc Kurth wrote:
A guy asks for help in how to carry the combination of his weapon and cameras.

Funny how some people insist on preaching about their views in lieu of just passing it by since they couldn't help with the question.


A guy walks into a camera forum and asks about carrying a concealed weapon. Not to say it's not a legitimate question, or even out of place, but have you ever seen such a thread on a camera or other non-weapons forum that did not engender such discussion? Do you think it's remotely reasonable to imagine that it would not? Any more than the occasional injection of religion, politics, sex, drugs or rock & roll engenders similar discussions?

Nill
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www.toulme.net

May 17, 2008 at 08:33 PM
Nill Toulme
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p.4 #11 · Bag for Camera & Gun - Wait, hear me out!


carlsbadbum wrote:
...I believe self protection is a god giving right, not privilege approved by your government. ...

Is that in the bible? I do recall the part condoning slavery, but I don't remember the part about guns.

Nill
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www.toulme.net


May 17, 2008 at 08:35 PM
MSC
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p.4 #12 · Bag for Camera & Gun - Wait, hear me out!


none legally. for illegally obtained, ask the bad guys...maryland is my guess.

May 17, 2008 at 08:36 PM
Nill Toulme
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p.4 #13 · Bag for Camera & Gun - Wait, hear me out!


Wasn't it Virginia that NY wanted to sue because of all the guns used in crimes there that they had traced to Virginia?

Nill
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www.toulme.net

May 17, 2008 at 08:39 PM
MSC
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p.4 #14 · Bag for Camera & Gun - Wait, hear me out!


ok, as always, not a single person ever changes their mind on this...ever, right? so stupid to bring it up or try...^especially fm were we try to stay on topic...

as the the op, carry so it is useful.

...i'm inspired...off for some shooting...

May 17, 2008 at 08:48 PM
Nill Toulme
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p.4 #15 · Bag for Camera & Gun - Wait, hear me out!


I don't know Shane. I might not change my mind, but the older I get, the more discussions like this make me stop and think. For example, just yesterday I was thinking about the whole gay marriage thing, prompted by the recent Calif. court decision. I found myself thinking, why do people care about this so much? Why do people in Kansas get all worked up because two guys in San Francisco, or two girls in Springfield, Mass., love each other and want to spend their lives together and want to get married? What's it to them?

And then I thought, so wiseguy, what's it to you whether Exxon drills for oil in the ANWR? The chances of you ever going back to Alaska again are probably no better than the odds of that lady in Kansas ever having to suffer through seeing those two guys in SF kiss each other on a streetcorner. Why is it any of your business whether snowmobiles are allowed in Yellowstone? What about all the other things that you care about that people do, or don't do, that don't affect you directly and are unlikely ever to?

And then I thought, well, I guess that's just how people are, and much as I hate to admit it sometimes, I'm a people too. ;-)

Nill
~~
www.toulme.net

May 17, 2008 at 08:58 PM
200231786
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p.4 #16 · Bag for Camera & Gun - Wait, hear me out!


Nill: "And then I thought, well, I guess that's just how people are, and much as I hate to admit it sometimes, I'm a people too."

A quote we all should remember

J

May 17, 2008 at 10:01 PM

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