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caleb condit
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p.4 #1 · High Key Thread

? Your getting high key film confused with high key portrait terminology.

well I´m glad you´re officially the high key police. this is getting silly.

May 20, 2008 at 06:36 AM

liamh
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p.4 #2 · High Key Thread

caleb condit wrote:

? Your getting high key film confused with high key portrait terminology.

well I´m glad you´re officially the high key police. this is getting silly.

That is the point of the thread.

May 20, 2008 at 06:45 AM

caleb condit
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p.4 #3 · High Key Thread

what´s the point? to overdefine terminology for a lighting technique? My point is that one or 3 person´s interpretation of a style-technique shouldn´t control what is considered fact (in their opinion i might add). The history of the technique, use and concept can´t be left out. And by calling me confused about high key film and photo is wrong.

Anyhow, call it what you like, but I´ve seen like 2 good photos in the whole thread. In the end, use all the terms you want, but unless it makes you a better photographer what´s the point. End of story.

I´ve seen plenty of people going on in the portrait forum that spout all kinds of technical knowledge only to apply it really poorly. I guess that´s what really is getting me about this thread. I´m not trying to condescend or call anyone´s work crap, but unless you have some great shots to back up what you´re trying to teach someone, I have a hard time with that. I mean, we should be trying to make people better photographers, and by showing subpar application of supposedly flawless terminology is just pointless. The point is to make better photographs. The point isn´t to show people how they too can be mediocre. ok, so I´m going off here, but sometimes this stuff needs to be said. Forums are about learning and discussion, right. Sorry if anyone takes any of this personally, it´s not directed to be personal.

Edited on May 20, 2008 at 10:48 AM

May 20, 2008 at 10:42 AM

caleb condit
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p.4 #4 · High Key Thread

oh and going by the definitions of highkey on the first page by tony field, both images I posted have those type values.

Here´s a screenshot showing what I mean...

the histogram doesn´t lie. The majority of the information is in the utmost right quarter of the histogram. Period.

Edited on May 20, 2008 at 10:58 AM

May 20, 2008 at 10:57 AM

liamh
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p.4 #5 · High Key Thread

Hi Caleb,

Easy tiger.

The point of the thread is to dicuss high-key photography and to show different examples. There's no need to row and get all hot and bothered. It's only terminology after-all. If people disagree, that's fine, but it doesn't mean anyone should lose their temper.

What is apparent from this thread is that most people think high-key means 'white background'. This is not the case. Though a high key shot can have a white background, a shot with a white background isn't necessarily high key. Nor is it exclusively a lighting technique, as has been mentioned earlier a polar bear taking a walk in the arctic can be high-key.

High key is simply a shot where the dominant tones are light. Think of John Lennon's "Imagine" video - white room, white piano, white clothes...

The image does not need to have a full range of tones but shouldn't be achieved through excessively overexposing the shot. There are a number of techniques that can help achieve the look; art direction, lighting and post-processing are the most obvious.

I personally find high key shots interesting but rather dated looking, so why anyone would actually bother making one is another question

Regards,

Liam.

May 20, 2008 at 11:29 AM

caleb condit
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p.4 #6 · High Key Thread

I´m not too hot and bothered, and you´re right, high key doesn´t necessarily mean a white background should be used. You just echoed what I was trying to get across. That we should discuss this, but I get frustrated when people talk like what they´re saying is the end all. Nothing is more frustrating to me than an over technical, but low quality photographer trying to tell people what they should do. And about the dominant tones being light was what I was trying to illustrate, hence the histogram in my example that was stated as being not high key.

May 20, 2008 at 01:16 PM

Brent Ward
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p.4 #7 · High Key Thread

caleb condit wrote:
oh and going by the definitions of highkey on the first page by tony field, both images I posted have those type values.

Here´s a screenshot showing what I mean...

the histogram doesn´t lie. The majority of the information is in the utmost right quarter of the histogram. Period.

I can get the same histogram with a clipped out product photo on a white background. Period.

If you cropped out most of that background the histogram is going to change quite a bit.

There are defined rules for lo-key and hi-key that have been in place before I was born. Complain to those that made them up in the first place.

This discussion is to educate others in what exactly is hi-key and lo-key, which have well defined rules. If your unhappy about your shots technically not being either, then find another discussion. The shots are good, just not TECHNICALLY hi-key.

You say your not taking things personally, but your replies say otherwise...

Edited on May 20, 2008 at 04:28 PM

May 20, 2008 at 04:27 PM

tonyfield
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p.4 #8 · High Key Thread

caleb condit wrote:
oh and going by the definitions of highkey on the first page by tony field, both images I posted have those type values.

Here´s a screenshot showing what I mean...

the histogram doesn´t lie. The majority of the information is in the utmost right quarter of the histogram. Period.

The histogram does not lie - however you do have to know how to interpret it :-) The reason that the histogram is "to the right" is that you have a large white background with a relatively small medium key subject. Since you have a large white background, the histogram counts of the light tones is very high forcing the view to the right and shows in proportion few mid tones. If you crop (as Brent suggests) the image and show essentially only the face, it becomes obvious visually and on the histogram that this is simply a medium key subject.

As many have suggested, simply a hot white background does not mean that the picture is high key.

Edited on May 20, 2008 at 06:20 PM

May 20, 2008 at 06:02 PM

cn219703
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p.4 #9 · High Key Thread

Ok, so is this one high key ?

Edited on May 20, 2008 at 08:37 PM

May 20, 2008 at 08:35 PM

freaklikeme
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p.4 #10 · High Key Thread

liamh wrote:
caleb condit wrote:

? Your getting high key film confused with high key portrait terminology.

well I´m glad you´re officially the high key police. this is getting silly.

That is the point of the thread.

To get silly? That I can handle.

May 20, 2008 at 09:30 PM

Brit-007
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p.4 #11 · High Key Thread

This one was shot on film, the print was scanned. Image is about 20+ years ago

2008 © Brit-007

May 20, 2008 at 10:07 PM

tonyfield
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p.4 #12 · High Key Thread

Brit-007 wrote:
This one was shot on film, the print was scanned. Image is about 20+ years ago

Certainly is a very nice example of a hot white shot. Definitely not high key.

May 20, 2008 at 10:21 PM

caleb condit
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p.4 #13 · High Key Thread

right. so the smallest area of the photograph (ie, the minority of information) has a few midtones (trust me, I cropped just the face and the histogram wasn´t so different) which means the majority of the shot´s information is in the right most area. I´m not frustrated over being labeled one thing or another, just misleading information. I disagree.

May 20, 2008 at 11:27 PM

tonyfield
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p.4 #14 · High Key Thread

caleb condit wrote:
right. so the smallest area of the photograph (ie, the minority of information) has a few midtones (trust me, I cropped just the face and the histogram wasn´t so different) which means the majority of the shot´s information is in the right most area. I´m not frustrated over being labeled one thing or another, just misleading information. I disagree.

If you examine the face crop and compare it to your original histogram, there is NO comparison between the two tonal distributions (well, in fact, there is - but you must know what the histograms actually represent in the image context) . The "cropped histogram" is on the left and the original histogram is on the right. In terms of "misleading information", I have no I idea what you are talking about.

Your histograms:

This image is copyrighted by the owner

If you object to me posting the image of the face cropped - please let me know and I will remove the image from the web

Edited on May 21, 2008 at 01:46 AM

May 21, 2008 at 01:19 AM

tonyfield
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p.4 #15 · High Key Thread

cn219703 wrote:
Ok, so is this one high key ?

Personally, I think this is very close to a "classical high key image". The part that bothers me (in terms of "high key") is the relatively large amount of dark hair. None the less, well done and in the true spirit of high key.

Edited on May 21, 2008 at 02:40 AM

May 21, 2008 at 01:51 AM

liamh
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p.4 #16 · High Key Thread

Brit-007 wrote:
This one was shot on film, the print was scanned. Image is about 20+ years ago

I'm loving that hair. Classic 80s!

May 21, 2008 at 08:05 AM

Brit-007
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p.4 #17 · High Key Thread

Thanks Liamh. They were brother and sister but her eyes were really alive. It was sweet. This was a present for their parents.

May 21, 2008 at 03:47 PM

cn219703
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p.4 #18 · High Key Thread

tonyfield wrote:
cn219703 wrote:
Ok, so is this one high key ?

I've done that a while ago, I didn't know high key stuff, I just use curve adjustment and level

May 22, 2008 at 02:47 AM

caleb condit
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p.4 #19 · High Key Thread

i don´t mind you reposting for the sake of proving a point, tony.

May 22, 2008 at 08:25 AM

caleb condit
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p.4 #20 · High Key Thread

oh and the fact that his face is the only part of the photo you´ll consider to make it high key. I´ll crop his pocket and we´ll just judge off of pockets from here on...

May 22, 2008 at 08:30 AM

tonyfield
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p.4 #21 · High Key Thread

caleb condit wrote:
oh and the fact that his face is the only part of the photo you´ll consider to make it high key. I´ll crop his pocket and we´ll just judge off of pockets from here on...

No - the entire image is necessary. You completely miss the difference between a hot white background with a normal image and a high key photo. Both of your images have only a hot white background. If you make a 40x50 cm image with a white background and place a 4x5cm image of a black cat in the centre, you do NOT have a high key image. Conversely, if you make a 40x50 cm image with a black background and place a 4x5cm image of a white china cup in the centre, you do NOT have a low key image.

Please look at Nathan's and Britt's very good examples of high key. Both of these images many be alternately cropped - for example, including only the face - and still preserve the high key effect.

As Brian Lingle stated "There is no reason to be troubled over the fact that a portrait with a hot white background and medium key subject is not a high key photo, unless you're overly attached to the connotation conveyed by the term, high key."

Edited on May 22, 2008 at 05:23 PM

May 22, 2008 at 04:39 PM


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