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Archive 2008 · 150-500 MTFs - Bigma still reigns?

  
 
Telecorder
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · 150-500 MTFs - Bigma still reigns?


Not looking good for the 150-500 to be anywhere near the Bigma,,, such a shame...
I put the MTF charts side by side and its apparent the Bigma will still reign...
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d73/Telecorder/Bigma-v-150-500-MTF.jpg

http://www.sigma-photo.co.jp/lens/tele/150_500_5_63.htm
http://www.sigma-photo.co.jp/english/lens/telezoom/mf50_500_4_63.htm




May 10, 2008 at 10:42 AM
BenV
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · 150-500 MTFs - Bigma still reigns?


not exactly sure what this means, so Im just going to say lets see some real world results.


May 10, 2008 at 10:56 AM
Jammy Straub
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · 150-500 MTFs - Bigma still reigns?


The Bigma is from their EX range of 'pro' lenses, the 150-500 OS isn't. It's not surprising.


May 10, 2008 at 12:13 PM
Elan II
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · 150-500 MTFs - Bigma still reigns?


Thanks for posting these Dave. I'm following this lens with great interest myself as a hand-carry wildlife outfit, but frankly without the optimism to match. Mostly because it's based on the current 170-500 f/5-6.3, which is a pretty good lens, but nowhere near great.

I think though that just looking at the charts may create the wrong impression because they represent - a. the full image circle and - b. the data for wide open aperture only. Most people buying this lens will use it on a DX body and stop it down at least a little. You can look at the first 12-15mm as an indicator of what you can expect with a DX sensor. There is no way to predict what stopping her down will produce and there's not very far to go with 6.3 as your starting point. But still, with some lenses even 2/3 of a stop can make a significant difference. Also, Sigma claims that their new generation OS delivers a full, 4-stop improvement. That alone caught my attention.

Btw, take a look at the 120-400 MTF charts on the same site. Impressive!




Edited on May 10, 2008 at 01:00 PM



May 10, 2008 at 12:51 PM
tuannie
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · 150-500 MTFs - Bigma still reigns?


People are making the mistake that the lenses are EX lenses and they are certainly not!


May 10, 2008 at 01:52 PM
Jack White
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · 150-500 MTFs - Bigma still reigns?


I didn't see anyone claiming the 150-500 nor 170-500 nor 120-400mm was an EX lens in this thread unless I'm missing a post.

I'm intrigued by the 50-500. Reviews look so good but it's hard to believe that a 10X zoom could be as good as people are saying. Too bad the Sigma lenses are hard to rent and a $1000 experiment is hard to justify because if I don't like it I'll take a hit on depreciation.

Edited on May 10, 2008 at 03:51 PM



May 10, 2008 at 03:51 PM
tuannie
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · 150-500 MTFs - Bigma still reigns?


White, Jack wrote:
I didn't see anyone claiming the 150-500 nor 170-500 nor 120-400mm was an EX lens in this thread unless I'm missing a post.

I'm intrigued by the 50-500. Reviews look so good but it's hard to believe that a 10X zoom could be as good as people are saying. Too bad the Sigma lenses are hard to rent and a $1000 experiment is hard to justify because if I don't like it I'll take a hit on depreciation.


Yes, according other threads I have seen people thought these lenses are the replacement for the current models updated with HMS/OS. Maybe this where people expected the lens to perform well.

Whitejack,

Order online, test and return within the 14-days limit. If it is good I am sure you will keep it.

Tuan



May 10, 2008 at 03:57 PM
Jack White
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · 150-500 MTFs - Bigma still reigns?


"Yes, according other threads I have seen people thought these lenses are the replacement for the current models updated with HMS/OS. Maybe this where people expected the lens to perform well."

Is the 50-500mm is going away?

Maybe I should wait for 50-500mm DG EX OS! That would be awesome, OS an already well-reviewed non-OS version. I can rent the Nikon 80-400 but it doesn't work well with TCs so a native 500mm at the long end would be preferred.

Too many choices nowadays



May 10, 2008 at 04:05 PM
Jammy Straub
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · 150-500 MTFs - Bigma still reigns?


@ Jack - That sort of thing is pretty easy with Amazon, they have a very liberal return policy if your dissatisfied.


May 10, 2008 at 04:05 PM
SteveS
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · 150-500 MTFs - Bigma still reigns?


I dont understand Sigma. Where is there train of thought. They make a nice lens like the 80-400 OS without HSM. Then they turn around and make theses new lens with HSM and OS but not in the EX line. There are more like this too in there lineup. What are they thinking


May 10, 2008 at 04:07 PM
Jack White
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · 150-500 MTFs - Bigma still reigns?


"I dont understand Sigma. Where is there train of thought. They make a nice lens like the 80-400 OS without HSM. Then they turn around and make theses new lens with HSM and OS but not in the EX line. There are more like this too in there lineup. What are they thinking"

I guess there is a cost that comes with the "EX" designation and to keep the cost down they left out EX. As far as I know EX doesn't add to optical quality. Is a EX lens going to last longer than a non-EX lens? I don't know.

I guess it's like the Nikon 16-85mm VR, it doesn't have the pro build of say a 17-55 but it's optically fantastic. So same goes for the Sigma. I currently have the EX 70-200 DG Macro and used to own the Sigma EX 150mm and Sigma EX 120-300mm. I must say that the "EX" build was a selling point in my mind though in the real world I don't know if this ever was more than just better build since the non-EX lenses have DG and HSM.

Edited on May 10, 2008 at 04:27 PM



May 10, 2008 at 04:25 PM
SteveS
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · 150-500 MTFs - Bigma still reigns?


White, Jack wrote:
"I dont understand Sigma. Where is there train of thought. They make a nice lens like the 80-400 OS without HSM. Then they turn around and make theses new lens with HSM and OS but not in the EX line. There are more like this too in there lineup. What are they thinking"

I guess there is a cost that comes with the "EX" designation and to keep the cost down they left out EX. As far as I know EX doesn't add to optical quality. Is a EX lens going to last longer than a non-EX lens? I don't
...Show more

Every Sigma lens I tried. EX lens were always sharper except for primes. But then again every sigma lens I tried had a issue with focus or sharpness. I still have not seen a EX 70-200 as sharp as Nikon or canon wide open. If the Bigma is sharper the the new lens in real world. I would have to say EX does indeed make a difference in there zoom line up.



May 10, 2008 at 04:32 PM
tuannie
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · 150-500 MTFs - Bigma still reigns?


White, Jack wrote:
"Yes, according other threads I have seen people thought these lenses are the replacement for the current models updated with HMS/OS. Maybe this where people expected the lens to perform well."

Is the 50-500mm is going away?

Maybe I should wait for 50-500mm DG EX OS! That would be awesome, OS an already well-reviewed non-OS version. I can rent the Nikon 80-400 but it doesn't work well with TCs so a native 500mm at the long end would be preferred.

Too many choices nowadays


I don't think the 80-400 OS and the 50-500 is being replaced, I could be wrong. The 120-400 and the 150-500 cost nearly as much as the EX models so I really don't understand if they are really the replacement for the EX models.

I believe EX signature do make a difference. According to the other post, while the 16-85 is nice it isn't sharp @ 2.8 like the 17-55 Simple really, are you willing to get lenses that are really sharp or sharp enough or pretty sharp for the money. Like all line of lenses, we get pro, midrange and consumer options. Sigma is no different.

I want to see some real results with these new Sigmas. I am interested in the 150-500mm.



May 10, 2008 at 10:45 PM
RCicala
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · 150-500 MTFs - Bigma still reigns?


I believe the 80-400 is being replaced. Its no longer on dealer order lists.


May 11, 2008 at 06:24 AM
tuannie
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · 150-500 MTFs - Bigma still reigns?


RCicala wrote:
I believe the 80-400 is being replaced. Its no longer on dealer order lists.


Well now that doesn't make sense to me. They need to perform just as well if not better if this is true.

Tuan



May 11, 2008 at 03:02 PM
stompyq
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · 150-500 MTFs - Bigma still reigns?


I thought sigma wasgoing to call all constant apeture lenses EX and remove that designation from variable apeture lenses. This will make the 50-500mm and 80-400mm non EX lenses (any updates)


May 11, 2008 at 04:44 PM
Telecorder
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · 150-500 MTFs - Bigma still reigns?


DPR's mikeyyy wrote:
> Updated mtf charts
> http://www.sigma-photo.co.jp/lens/tele/150_500_5_63.htm
>
Thanks, Mike...!
FWIW-->
Apparently, Sigma had posted the wrong MTF charts for the 150-500 as incorporating their new posting versus the Bigma charts now reflects the following...

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d73/Telecorder/1Bigmav150-500MTF.jpg

After Mikeyyy pointed this out, I did a bit more reading of info on reading MTF charts and now have to say that this more in depth understanding and with the new charts, I'm changing my opinion to be more slightly optimistic about the 150-500.

Paraphrasing Canon's guidance of how to read the above MTF chart, as I now understand it--
The upper Red lines refer to a spatial frequency of 10 lines/mm (equates to Contrast or how accurate a lens' senses differences between similar shades)
The lower Green lines refer to a spatial frequency of 30 lines/mm (resolving or sensing of sharpness of fine details)
A solid line refers to sensing of lines parallel to radius from center ___ (S curves)
The dotted lines refer to sensing of lines tangential to radius ||| (M curves)
Above chart values refer to maximum aperture (most all lenses usually benefit when stopped down)
The contrast curve (upper) is the most important when evaluating differences in lenses and liklihood a lens will be a good performer

The closer the S and M (dotted curves) curves are in line, the more natural the blurred image becomes (more pleasing Bokeh).

An MTF value of 0.8 or more at 10 lines/mm (especially the Upper/Contrast/Red) curve indicates a superior lens; 0.7 -- good
An MTF of 0.6 or more at 10 lines/mm indicates a satisfactory image.

Since most of us use crop factor bodies, such as my D50, any part of the curve on the right - past ~14-mm distance from the center of the lens, is irrelevent -- as this portion is for the edges on a 35-mm FF sensor and is cropped on a crop sensor.

In the above charts, I note that the 150-500 has about equal values for the upper contrast lines and slightly better values for the resolution/lower curve. I placed colored dots on the corresponding values between the two lens for easier comparisons.

All in all, the newest calculated MTF values would seem to indicate that the 150-500 lens may have as good of an IQ as the Bigma; perhaps better when stopped down...

Real world, hand's on reviews will tell the true story...




May 12, 2008 at 01:02 PM
Telecorder
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · 150-500 MTFs - Bigma still reigns?


http://picasaweb.google.co.jp/cermaktomas

Tomas has posted some various images of the new 150-500 albeit with a Canon mount.

While no way an objective sort of test images, they do seem to bode well for the lens being a good long lens alternative...

He reports the HSM is fast and the OS useful...
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1030&message=27930038



May 15, 2008 at 12:14 PM
Chris_Platt
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · 150-500 MTFs - Bigma still reigns?


After seeing some posts here, I decided to purchase the 150-500mm OS as a possible replacement for my Bigma. After taking a number of comparison shots between the new lens and my Bigma, the 150-500 seems to have the edge up to 400mm. I'd say the lenses are tied with respect to sharpness, but the 150-500 exhibits a little more contrast. However, above 400mm, the 150-500 resolution falls off substantially. It is much softer than the Bigma at focal lengths above 400mm. Perhaps I just have a bad copy, but I'm certainly going to hang onto the Bigma for now. The 150-500mm OS lens is a great 150-400mm OS lens!

To test the lenses, I simply taped a newspaper to the wall and took test shots at different focal lengths. Both lenses were placed on a tripod 15 feet from the wall. Shutter speed and aperture were constant. OS was turned off on the new lens. I didn't like the results, so I ran it several times over a couple of days. The answer was always the same.

Sigma 150-500, 500mm, f9, 1/60 (with flash), tripod, OS off, shutter released with self timer
http://www.cdplatt.com/forumpics/150-500/150-500%20f-9%20100%20percent%20crop.jpg

Bigma, 500mm, f9, 1/60 (with flash), tripod, shutter released with self timer
http://www.cdplatt.com/forumpics/150-500/Bigma%20f-9%20100%20percent%20crop.jpg


Click here 150-500 full size image (large file!)


Click here for Bigma full size image (large file!)

Edited on Jul 27, 2008 at 03:56 PM



Jul 27, 2008 at 03:51 PM





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