Or am I running into more and more churches that outright forbid photos during the ceremony?
I'm not talking about LDS or other denominations that have classically banned photos during the service.... It seems like more individual churches are establishing this sort of policy than I'd previously seen. I wonder if this has anything to do with the influx of untrained individuals into the industry...
I just seem to be seeing this more and more frequently.... I just spoke with yet another church coordinator who informed me I won't be getting any ceremony pictures...
Its because rude photographers, who are on this forum by the way, that have no respect for the venue. Instead of fighting with the photographers, they just ban them.
j.curtis wrote:
Its because rude photographers, who are on this forum by the way, that have no respect for the venue. Instead of fighting with the photographers, they just ban them.
Yes, ultimately its because of rudeness. I just wonder why rudeness seems to be on the rise (explaining the rising number of bans).
I try to explain to them that I have literally staked my life on my ability to be a discrete observer.... sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. I had one pastor who literally wanted to hear the sound of my shutter before deciding on my shooting restrictions, but who afterward acknowledged that he was never even aware of my presence.
Regardless, of the cause, its a real shame in my mind.
Evan Baines wrote:
I wonder if this has anything to do with the influx of untrained individuals into the industry...
Churches are banning ANY type of photography during the ceremony. I've shot weddings where virtually every guest had a camera of some sort .. looked like half-time at the Super Bowl.
Most pros I know make every effort to respect the ceremony, and some even purchase pretty expensive lenses specific to shooting from a distance so they won't interfere with the ceremony. But I'm sure there are a few "pros" who are being a pest and making the road more difficult for the rest of us.
Unchecked guest conduct can become a nuisance so they just ban all cameras, period.
I find it interesting between cultures. I've shot at churches that allow me to shoot, just as long as I'm not ON the altar... Makes sense... Then I attended a wedding in France, and it was like Brad and Angelina were getting married, EVERY person at the church had a camera and was literally in the pastor's face... haha... I know churches have to draw the line somewhere, in an attempt to keep some order. And everyone knows the phrase... "A Few bad apples, spoil the bunch." Sad, but true
Never an issue. Ever.
Though the rise of the church coordinator and their quest for power might be something you are experiencing.
In my experience there are more brides, grooms and parents that put their foot down and explain to the officiant that they have paid for the church, paid their salary for years and now want pictures.
I wouldn't jump to any conclusions about rookies being jerks or not knowing the ropes. Yes, it is possible. I am heavily involved in church work myself and although our local church is very open, man if you want to sit on the rafter to get a good angle, go for it, just sign a waiver, I think many other denominational churches are getting "older" and grumpier. I have seen a trend moving away from traditional "church" weddings and more to golf courses, vineyards, etc. Tennessee might be a little more "old" and grumpy anyway Evan.
I have read posts in this very forum about ignoring "priests who think they are in charge." Well, they ARE in charge. Marriage is a sacramental rite of the church. If couples want a free-for-all ceremony run by the inmates, then they shouldn't get married in a church in the first place. I am not at all surprised that photographers are banned in some churches when I read the attitudes expressed fairly widely in this forum.
It is a sad new trend for chruches to ban photographs all together. I am beginning to believe it is stemming from the onslaught of new photographers only concerned about making a buck and taking as many pictures as possible. I have heard of and seen inexperienced newbies who only have a kit lens be right on top of the couple as they are saying their vows. That is making all of us look bad. The priest/minister/rabbi/etc dont know the photographers experience or background. They just decide to make a blanket ban on pictures. Also the shooters who "machine gun" weddings to get that ONE shot are having a negative effect on us. During key parts they will just hold down the shutter to get as many images as possible to "make sure" they get the picture. Not only does that send up a red flag to you being inexperienced, it also disrupts the ceremony with the clatter of an incessant shutter. On the "Pro" side the other thing I believe that can be attributing to this "ban" is those who dont turn off the "BEEP"!!! Seriously!! If you have to rely on a audible tone to let you know when the picture is in focus, should you really be shooting weddings?
I like the term "pew paparazzi" that is awesome! Sometimes it does look like that. Dozens of flashes (and beeps) going off all through a ceremony definitely bothers me but image the officiant getting pelted by the flashes! That alone would make me ban photographs!
As professionals we arent only selling our images, we are selling our tact, professionalism, courtesy, discretion, experience, and most of all and most over looked COMMON SENSE!! It is the people calling themselves Pro's that dont exercise these things that are making it harder for us to do our jobs!
Chris Cooke wrote:
As professionals we arent only selling our images, we are selling our tact, professionalism, courtesy, discretion, experience, and most of all and most over looked COMMON SENSE!! It is the people calling themselves Pro's that dont exercise these things that are making it harder for us to do our jobs!
I'm just frustrated because tomorrow I'll be a wedding photographer who won't actually be shooting the wedding, through no fault of my own. I can totally understand when there are actual doctrinal reasons why photography is banned, but I have to regret whatever the circumstances are that have caused churches to ban photography when there are no strictly religious reasons for doing so.
All of these rules are ultimately between the church and its parishioners, but it still bums me out because I want to offer the most complete coverage I can to my couples. The bride in this case doesn't even know yet: I only found out because I contacted the church directly (as is my policy) to pay respects to the officiant and inquire as to any restrictions.
How many have you run into in the last 6 months? Just curious. I know Presbyterian churches sometimes don't allow any photography during the ceremony. I have photographed two such but it was years ago.
RedWhiteandRed wrote:
Well said - 100% in agreement.
Red, I'm really not try to pick a fight, but I recall you saying something along the lines that you will do what every your client wants with no regards to the venues wishes.
Whats with the change of thought? I'm not complaining, but this does go somewhat against your previous posts.
I'd say it's 50/50 % between the "pew paparazzi" and "pros" who know no bounds.
I agree that a ceremony in a religious house is or should be sacred, and cooperation is essential.
And I'd love to see guests BE guests, and not would-be wedding photographers. That's what I do when I attend as a guest, I sit in my seat and appreciate the beauty and meaning of the occasion. When people say : "I thought sure YOU'D bring your camera", I reply, "I'm not working, I'm here as a guest".
For this wedding season, i had only job where no photos were allowed....and that was at an LDS Temple...........i have not experienced any upswing in prohibition........
j.curtis wrote:
Red, I'm really not try to pick a fight, but I recall you saying something along the lines that you will do what every your client wants with no regards to the venues wishes.
Whats with the change of thought? I'm not complaining, but this does go somewhat against your previous posts.
No change here at all. Professionalism, courtesy, discretion and experience. This is what all the professionals at the weddings I attend or work tend to exhibit. On occasion there may be a minister or officiant that loses the plot but this is rare.
sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. I had one pastor who literally wanted to hear the sound of my shutter before deciding on my shooting restrictions, but who afterward acknowledged that he was never even aware of my presence.
, I think many other denominational churches are getting "older" and grumpier. I have seen a trend moving away from traditional "church" weddings and more to golf courses, vineyards, etc. Tennessee might be a little more "old" and grumpy anyway Evan. 