If they couldn't spend more than 1500 for storybook wedding coverage, they're really not going to like the 250+/hr that good lawyers charge. And no lawyer would take it - there's no damages here I can see. As long as you provided coverage and hard goods as contracted, she got what she paid for. There's a lot of important cases that get delayed in courts due to crap like this and judges are starting to be harsh on plaintiffs - it's a silent revolution happening now.
I personally was voted Best Of 2008 by satisfied Knot brides, but I've had a few mad Mom's in my day. Last week my favorite wp in the whole world told me the best thing they ever did for business was to remove the Mom filter. They don't take photos for Moms and they don't meet with Moms. Also, they do an engagement session with every couple - last year they had to return a very large retainer because the bride suddenly didn't like seeing herself in the non-traditional way the studio is known for photographing people. Loved seeing it on the blog with other couples, but didn't like it on herself. Retainer returned - buy the engagment prints at portrait session rates if you're interested. Nice knowing you. As it was so clearly put to me, "I need fewer headaches, not more money."
In the world of commissioned art, it's crazy to think we're going to have a 100% success rate. I'm ok with 95%
According to what you said was in the contract and what I have seen, it appears that you have fulfilled your end of the contract. The main issue I see and this is probably where she is coming from. The pictures are not bad by any means but they certainly could have been better. It's not so much what you captured, but how you captured them and what was done in Post Processing. In fact, there is very little post processing. In some of the pictures I see very harsh light. Was there a video guy that was too close to the couple? In others, I see that they are not cropped to give a much cleaner look. This is just a suggestion and in my humble opinion. I would go back through the images and do some post processing work. This would include cutting some background people out of the pictures. Also, your black and whites need work. They seem as if you just removed saturation and left them that way.
I created an action for my black and whites. I only did this in the last year and have been happier with the results. Here is a quick step to try. I take away both the saturation and the hue. I then use curves if I need to lighten the image. I go into selective coloring and bring up the black. I then add contract to suit. I really don't see her going to court over it, and certainly not winning. I do see that you could go one extra step to try to make things better. You may never make her happy, but at least you will know you have given her your best. Yvette
On a positive side some of the photos are very nice, however I think you got caught up in the moment of such a beautiful background that you forgot to do more closeups. I love shots that show emotion. Also I would not have shown the bride all of the proofs. If a picture is unflattering, I would remove it from the collection so that what the client sees is only your best.
well.. After looking at the origonal images on smugmug you have some serious focus problems. Weather it be a camera and lens back focus problem or poor craftmanship on your part. You are a good foot out of focus on a lot of kep photos that are a no brainer to capture. Too bad you dropped the ball there.
A lot of your formals are dark and extremely grainy. One thing tells me there. You shot available light at high iso and totally screwed up the settings and then tried to recover in post and f'd up even more by adding a ton of grain because you were 2 stops under exposed.
But you did say it was a $1500 job. Well I feel they got hat they paid for. An inexpensive less experienced photographer with mediocre work.
Yea I am being hard on you but I get where they are coming from.
I have a bride right now who is unhappy because she got prints from Walmart that suck. Umm yea they will suck but she doesnt want to hear that. I shoed her my print vs her print and she still doesnt care. Some clients are dumb and you need to realize you need to do a better job because a poor job is now a horrible job in their eyes. A good job and an ok job in their eyes. You learn from mistakes and hopefully next time you do better. If not give up and try a new profession.
Edited by paparazzinick on Mar 30, 2008 at 08:13 AM GMT
paparazzinick wrote:
well.. After looking at the origonal images on smugmug you have some serious focus problems. Weather it be a camera and lens back focus problem or poor craftmanship on your part. You are a good foot out of focus on a lot of kep photos that are a no brainer to capture. Too bad you dropped the ball there.
A lot of your formals are dark and extremely grainy. One thing tells me there. You shot available light at high iso and totally screwed up the settings and then tried to recover in post and f'd up even more by adding a ton of grain because you were 2 stops under exposed.
With the focus- I just finally figured out what the problem is, almost 8 months later. I got my camera back from nikon "fixing" my focus problem, well about a month or so ago, after many many long phone calls I find out that nikon didnt fix it but they fixed something else, and sent me my camera back (after it being lost in the shop for over a month) and I thought that it was fixed, and this was my first shoot with it back.
Everyone keeps on saying that the formals are dark- I dont see it. I see formals with highlights on her dress being just barely not blown, and the exposure brought down 1/4 stop in post. Can you help me see what you guys are talking about? I shot available light and added fill flash from a Alienbee 800 bounced in to a silver umbrella from 5 feet above the camera.- Are we talking the "alter" formals? or the wedding party?
Live and learn- I was 100% happy with them after I shot them, and now I am sick at my stomach that I gave them to clients, and pissed at myself for not realizing that my equipment was not working correctly. But I also realize that this sort of stuff happens when you are just starting out, and you are looking at work 8 months and 7 weddings earlier.
Again thanks to everyone for helping me out- not saying it didn't hurt, but what doesn't kill you makes you stronger and this is no exception.
Ok..I'll give you some feedback on images, because you asked.
PAGE ONE
First image- A bunch of people's backs. The only action is the videographer, who is shooting something off frame.
Dolphin shots? They are only the fins and shot from a far distance. It looks like a happy snap.
The couples shots are not bad. However, the exposure is not consistent. You have orange blown out shots with no separation from the background. Some are dark, and some are bright.
PAGE TWO
Don't use dutch angles to make up for poor composition and posing.
The exposure on the flower/rings is really off. You can't define the rings from the flower enough to see WHY you are shooting the inside of a flower.
PAGE THREE
Continue on the flower shots-- work on the composition to bring some interest to the image.
A lot of the back of the head shots. Again, composition. Beware of over processing images.
PAGE FOUR
By the time you started filling the fram with the B&G, they were not facing you. Then, they were far away again.
Josh Rule of Thumb: If you can get closer, you are too far away.
PAGE FIVE
Fill the frame with what is important. The chairs didn't need to be in the images. You put the group in a "V" with the B & G farthest away from the camera (so they are the smallest and least important subjects). Fill the frame by bringing the B&G closer and letting the group V away and staggard. You can get more people in the frame without losing anyone.
The horizons are crooked.
PAGE SIX
The one "establishing shot" of the wedding scene was taken LONG before the wedding. It shows me also that you are shooting out of sequence.
You have another B&G shot that might have been nice, but you have this ugly hotel behind them. When they are walking TO the beach, they are far away.
PAGE SEVEN
Again, a LOT of the back of the head shots. Not many face shots. Watch composition. Use the rule of thirds.
PAGE EIGHT
You have four good photos on this page. You can see faces, the exposures are correct, there is a story in the image.
PAGE NINE
The only two shots you have of the couple lighting the candle, you could have stepped twice to the left and got the bride's face in the shot. Also...not close enough. You do have one touching moment of them heads together. Thank goodness you didn't miss the kiss, but again, you are all over the place on the exposure and you should have processed the image.
PAGE TEN
You had better shots of the wedding party leaving than the B&G. The exposures are inconsitent. I think you are doing some post-processing without understanding how to do it properly. Use layers, use flash, understand what the historgrams do.
You had one potentially great image of the family, but 1/4 of the page is some womans white shirt (on the left) and you lost lots of poeple's faces.
PAGE ELEVEN
The images are dark. If we look at tones (from black to white) as a ten grade step, every image is a 6 and 7. Your subjects should not blend with the background. The people's faces shoudl not be the darker areas of the image. There should be AT LEAST a 5 tone grade in an image (if not more). Why are none of these images vertical? Way too much dead space in the images.
The walking shots are DARK!!!
PAGE TWELVE
DARK SHOTS. The shots you do have the flash going, you are lighting the beach in front of the subjects and not the subjects. You should have had the flash pushed to them by getting closer and putting the flash on manual. Don't be afraid to take a test shot or two to get the right exposure.
The one shots of the Bride and bridesmaids was neat, but underexposed and over processed.
PAGE THIRTEEN
DARK IMAGES. You have a great bride and groomsmen shots there and the bride is not lit. Don't try to cheat bad photographer by making it black and white. What is the longest lens you have? You shoot a lot of photos of these people far away from you.
PAGE FOURTEEN
YOu have nice sillhouettes. Probably because you didnt' need a flash or meter. You finally got the flash to make it to the B&G, but it needs more control. The beach and dress are washed out.
PAGE FIFTEEN
You cutt off the grooms head. The exposures all look like you set the camera on "P" and let the TTL do al the work. Not a lot of story telling and a lot of happy snap images.
PAGE SIXTEEN
Nice shot with the garter toss, but otherwise the rest are happy snaps.
On topic I don't see a problem, just let her be. Sure it sux to have clients like that, but you'll learn to recognize them real soon as you grow in this business.
The thing that worries me is that you not only put their full names on here but you also put out the password to their private wedding photo's. Even if you wanted feedback on the photos, wihch wasn't the case in the op, this is not the way to go. If momzila ever finds out about this you'll be in more trouble then with your album.
1. The photo quality. Whether you get paid $50 or $5,000 you should always give the client 100% of your skill and ability. Only about 10% of those images look like they were taken by a professional. I don't want to be mean, but your formals are dark, and there wasn't anywhere near the amount of light that should have been used. The beach photos are just dark dark dark, which is a shame because you captures some nice moments. (It looks like you didn't do any editing at all). Many of the photos you just shot eye level, available light, which could have been caught by any hobbyist. There are a few jems, but a good flash systems and a little effort would have nice. Another example, you blew out the image of the B&G cutting the cake in one image and the other you cut off the hubby's head.
2. You should have developed the relationship more with the family. Photos are about capturing emotion. If the MOB doesn't like you, they will look for an excuse not to like the photos. While this wedding isn't a total wash out, it is not work to be proud of.
3. Doing everything you reasonably can to make a client happy is a sign of a professional. Was there a compromise. Another $100-300 to get a client happy and recommending you to another potential client is a no-brainer. I would rather not make a profit on a wedding that I didn't do my best at, than have an unhappy client. It is a matter of professional pride and ensures I don't have to look over my back from bad press from unhappy clients.
4. What is up with the last photo? A blury image of a car going down the street? Again, you didn't edit your images for presentation very well. It gives me the impression that you didn't put a lot of energy into giving the client your best.
5. The phrase "the client is always right" is a bastardization of the real french adage "the client is never wrong." This is a truism. The client is NEVER wrong. If they are unhappy, then either they are con-men trying to rip you off, or you didn't do your job. Assuming they are genuinely unhappy, you failed at your task.
6. Looking at most of your work, you have a fundamental lack of understanding with light. It looks as if you like to shoot available light and hope that the TTL does its job for you when you have a flash on the camera. Take this as an opportunity to do better next time buy studying your craft.
7. I do not say any of this to be mean. This is just an honest critique. You can ignore it and just think that "good enough" is "good enough." They are your clients and it is your life. However, my impression is that your occasional good photo doesn't warrant a sense of professionalism to dismiss a client's concerns. If you are going to demand money for your skill, then average photos rarity (bad photos should be a freak occurance), and the majority of your work should demand your clients pay you a fair wage....Show more →
So, who is your customer? I tell my clients that I am out to please 3 women: The bride, the bride's mother, and the groom's mother. If these three women are happy, all of the men will be as well. In my interactions and in the photos I take I keep that in mind.
As far as the work is concerned, Dragonfly gave complete and accurate coverage.
This is a good learning event. Improve your photography and work harder to please the client.
Paul Bekker wrote:
The thing that worries me is that you not only put their full names on here but you also put out the password to their private wedding photo's. Even if you wanted feedback on the photos, wihch wasn't the case in the op, this is not the way to go. If momzila ever finds out about this you'll be in more trouble then with your album.
Good point: correct me if I am wrong, I have the right to let people see images, especially because the B+G have already seen everything, and I have a clause in my contract stating that I can use these photos for advertising, portfolio, etc. But about posting full names, that is probably not the best thing. I doubt that momzilla would find this, but I can only imagine what would happen if she did probably would forget to read all the posts that didnt give a critique or said that she got exactly what she paid for, and would remember all the critique and would use it as a reason for her to get a full refund...
From a money aspect, whoever pays is the clients. HOWEVER, let us be real and acknowledge that everyone in the family is really the client. MOB, MOG, B & G-- they all influence each other.
Edward Crim wrote:
So, who is your customer? I tell my clients that I am out to please 3 women: The bride, the bride's mother, and the groom's mother. If these three women are happy, all of the men will be as well. In my interactions and in the photos I take I keep that in mind.
As far as the work is concerned, Dragonfly gave complete and accurate coverage.
This is a good learning event. Improve your photography and work harder to please the client.
and this is no exception.