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swim_r Offline Image Upload: Off Dealing with Bridezilla So how do you deal with bridezilla? or in my case mother-of-the-bridezilla (the bride has opened her mouth to me as of yet) To make a long story short I shot the wedding, provided proofs, they felt like they should have gotten more (this was a destination wedding I did for $1,500 which included an album) I made some efforts to help them like what they got more. Now they get the album and all hell breaks loose, she doesnt like the quality (I love the quality), she feels like I cheated her in price because the album isnt what she expected (they approved the design, she just feels that an album that costs $100 wholesale is not good enough), she bought a DVD with the images from the wedding and she cant find a good print to frame, the quality isn't good (she did not print through me and neglected to mention how she printed them). Anyway the list goes on. Basically I sent her an email addressing each one of her points, shooting them down and expressing that I was not happy with her being unhappy but I did not feel that I could do anything more, and I have fulfilled our contract to the letter. I am not going to back down and I am not going to honor her request for another better quality album (the album in question is a leather bound album from White House Custom Color, and it is excellent, but it is a press printed album and when she holds the album to her nose she can see the CMYK dots) And I am most certainly not going to refund her any money. What do you guys do in this sort of situation, I am 100% satisfied with the photos and the album. Would you consider it bad to end my next email with a sentence saying: "Unless you are interested in placing an order, this will be my last correspondence with you as our contract is complete." btw if you are interested the photos can from the wedding are at www.clients.zachniles.com and the wedding in question is Jacob and Lacy's wedding (PM me for the password if you would like) Edited by swim_r on Mar 30, 2008 at 11:52 PM GMT Mar 28, 2008 at 04:19 AM

hassy501 Offline Image Upload: On Dealing with Bridezilla How does she know what the wholesale price on your album is ? Did you tell her ? Mar 28, 2008 at 04:27 AM

Rick Rosen Offline Image Upload: Off Dealing with Bridezilla Did you show her a sample of the album type she was getting before the wedding? If not, there's your big mistake. Rick Edited by Rick Rosen on Mar 27, 2008 at 08:31 PM GMT Mar 28, 2008 at 04:30 AM

swim_r Offline Image Upload: Off Dealing with Bridezilla hassy501 wrote: How does she know what the wholesale price on your album is ? Did you tell her ? because of a printing error I had the correct album dropped shipped to them from White House, and they picked up on that, and looked up the prices online, because White House has their pricing available to everyone, it is not locked behind their client login portal. Mar 28, 2008 at 04:30 AM

swim_r Offline Image Upload: Off Dealing with Bridezilla Rick Rosen wrote: Did you show her a sample of the album type she was getting before the wedding? If not, there's your big mistake. Rick Edited by Rick Rosen on Mar 27, 2008 at 08:31 PM GMT yes I know this, I didnt have a sample album at the time (I am just starting out, and I had a bunch of albums I didnt like, but I hadnt found a company that I liked until I started using WHCC) I honestly do not know what she is expecting, she knew it was printed on a printing press and the quality of the printing would be similar to a magazine... oh, and the album was an add on, at my expense that was not in their contract to try and make them happy. Mar 28, 2008 at 04:35 AM

maxim_me Offline Image Upload: Off Dealing with Bridezilla I hate Drop ship regardless of situation even for commercial jobs because you NEVER know how the client is receiving it I hazard to guess that IF you didnt drop ship she is happy as hell now Mar 28, 2008 at 04:35 AM

Nathan Hobbs Offline Buy and Sell: On Dealing with Bridezilla I think she got her moneys worth. although some of the photos are not the greatest in the world plenty of them are very good, especially for your price range and especially to include a album in the package. How much of a cut into your profit does she want you to take on that album taking nearly ten percent for a album plus equipment costs, post processing time, and marketing seems beyond fair. the problem is the madder she gets the closer to taking action she becomes.plus negative vibes are never that good. Maybe a good approach would be to explain that you have fulfilled your contract to the best of your ability, and that you do not know of anything more you could do to possibly please her more, explain your sorry and than ask her what exactly does she want you to do to resolve the situation. if her request is in reason, it may be worth solving if not, not much you can do..so why worry. Mar 28, 2008 at 04:41 AM

swim_r Offline Image Upload: Off Dealing with Bridezilla Nathan Hobbs wrote: the problem is the madder she gets the closer to taking action she becomes.plus negative vibes are never that good. Maybe a good approach would be to explain that you have fulfilled your contract to the best of your ability, and that you do not know of anything more you could do to possibly please her more, explain your sorry and than ask her what exactly does she want you to do to resolve the situation. if her request is in reason, it may be worth solving if not, not much you can do..so why worry. I would not be surprised in the least if she filed a law suit against me, but I have gone out of my way to try and please her above and beyond the contract and still nothing. I am lucky in that I have moved and I am now 2,000 miles away, so she can be as unhappy as she wants and not ruin my business (unless she is becoming a post wedding knottie... but I am going to be shooting under a new studio name this summer anyway) I have tried to honor her requests, but I am not willing to offer her a refund, or buy her a $600 asukabook, when all my expenses are paid, and I figure out my time, I made less than $6 an hour, plus my equipment, etc. anyone have similar situations? and what have you done? Mar 28, 2008 at 04:55 AM

hassy501 Offline Image Upload: On Dealing with Bridezilla There are probably hundreds of similar experiences from new photographers.....dont get all worried about it........learn from it...........and make adjustments......since she is out of your market area now, i doubt it she will pursue anything.......... If the album was a freebie to her, don't sweat it......she got it for free.......so now she's trying to see what else you'll give her for free..........some clients view this as a weakness on your behalf and will try to exploit it............ As you move forward, you'll learn to recognize clients like this from the git go.........and you'll also learn that sometimes lower end wedding clients are the most demanding clients who are never satisfied......if you fulfilled your contract then let it go and move on................. I viewed the images and for 1500.00 they got great coverage........you have nothing worry about............mom is just playing hardball........ Mar 28, 2008 at 05:45 AM

DragonflyDM Offline Buy and Sell: On Dealing with Bridezilla Well...(big breath) 1. The photo quality. Whether you get paid $50 or $5,000 you should always give the client 100% of your skill and ability. Only about 10% of those images look like they were taken by a professional. I don't want to be mean, but your formals are dark, and there wasn't anywhere near the amount of light that should have been used. The beach photos are just dark dark dark, which is a shame because you captures some nice moments. (It looks like you didn't do any editing at all). Many of the photos you just shot eye level, available light, which could have been caught by any hobbyist. There are a few jems, but a good flash systems and a little effort would have nice. Another example, you blew out the image of the B&G cutting the cake in one image and the other you cut off the hubby's head. 2. You should have developed the relationship more with the family. Photos are about capturing emotion. If the MOB doesn't like you, they will look for an excuse not to like the photos. While this wedding isn't a total wash out, it is not work to be proud of. 3. Doing everything you reasonably can to make a client happy is a sign of a professional. Was there a compromise. Another $100-300 to get a client happy and recommending you to another potential client is a no-brainer. I would rather not make a profit on a wedding that I didn't do my best at, than have an unhappy client. It is a matter of professional pride and ensures I don't have to look over my back from bad press from unhappy clients. 4. What is up with the last photo? A blury image of a car going down the street? Again, you didn't edit your images for presentation very well. It gives me the impression that you didn't put a lot of energy into giving the client your best. 5. The phrase "the client is always right" is a bastardization of the real french adage "the client is never wrong." This is a truism. The client is NEVER wrong. If they are unhappy, then either they are con-men trying to rip you off, or you didn't do your job. Assuming they are genuinely unhappy, you failed at your task. 6. Looking at most of your work, you have a fundamental lack of understanding with light. It looks as if you like to shoot available light and hope that the TTL does its job for you when you have a flash on the camera. Take this as an opportunity to do better next time buy studying your craft. 7. I do not say any of this to be mean. This is just an honest critique. You can ignore it and just think that "good enough" is "good enough." They are your clients and it is your life. However, my impression is that your occasional good photo doesn't warrant a sense of professionalism to dismiss a client's concerns. If you are going to demand money for your skill, then average photos rarity (bad photos should be a freak occurance), and the majority of your work should demand your clients pay you a fair wage. Mar 28, 2008 at 03:51 PM

j.curtis Offline Image Upload: On Dealing with Bridezilla 1. You never drop ship anything to a client. You need to view the condition of anything your client receives. 2. Second mistake was you never offer anything you don't have a sample of. Sorry, but you've put yourself in a bad situation as far as the albums are concerned. With that said, almost every business should have their cost of goods be around 25%. A $100 album should cost the client at least $400. You also need to factor in time to produce the album. With that said, who signed the contract? If the Mother didn't then the first thing out of your mouth should have been that you can not discuss details with her because she is not your contracted party. Mar 28, 2008 at 04:31 PM

swim_r Offline Image Upload: Off Dealing with Bridezilla j.curtis wrote: With that said, who signed the contract? If the Mother didn't then the first thing out of your mouth should have been that you can not discuss details with her because she is not your contracted party. Mom, Bride, and Groom all signed the contract. Mom signed as the person in charge of payment. Mar 28, 2008 at 04:39 PM

cordellwillis Offline Image Upload: Off Dealing with Bridezilla Take note of everything that has been stated thus far. I learned a LONG time ago that I have only two clients; Bride and Groom. If mom or anyone else wants to be in charge of payment let them funnel it through the b&g. Never the less they still don't have any say between my clients (b&g) and I. Mar 28, 2008 at 05:26 PM

plove53 Offline Image Upload: Off Dealing with Bridezilla Remember the customer is not just paying for the prints/book they are also paying for the images/design on the paper/book. Mar 28, 2008 at 07:30 PM

kardician Offline Image Upload: Off Dealing with Bridezilla DragonflyDM wrote: Well...(big breath) 1. The photo quality. Whether you get paid $50 or $5,000 you should always give the client 100% of your skill and ability. Only about 10% of those images look like they were taken by a professional. I don't want to be mean, but your formals are dark, and there wasn't anywhere near the amount of light that should have been used. The beach photos are just dark dark dark, which is a shame because you captures some nice moments. (It looks like you didn't do any editing at all). Many of the photos you just shot eye level, available light, which could have been caught by any hobbyist. There are a few jems, but a good flash systems and a little effort would have nice. Another example, you blew out the image of the B&G cutting the cake in one image and the other you cut off the hubby's head. 2. You should have developed the relationship more with the family. Photos are about capturing emotion. If the MOB doesn't like you, they will look for an excuse not to like the photos. While this wedding isn't a total wash out, it is not work to be proud of. 3. Doing everything you reasonably can to make a client happy is a sign of a professional. Was there a compromise. Another $100-300 to get a client happy and recommending you to another potential client is a no-brainer. I would rather not make a profit on a wedding that I didn't do my best at, than have an unhappy client. It is a matter of professional pride and ensures I don't have to look over my back from bad press from unhappy clients. 4. What is up with the last photo? A blury image of a car going down the street? Again, you didn't edit your images for presentation very well. It gives me the impression that you didn't put a lot of energy into giving the client your best. 5. The phrase "the client is always right" is a bastardization of the real french adage "the client is never wrong." This is a truism. The client is NEVER wrong. If they are unhappy, then either they are con-men trying to rip you off, or you didn't do your job. Assuming they are genuinely unhappy, you failed at your task. 6. Looking at most of your work, you have a fundamental lack of understanding with light. It looks as if you like to shoot available light and hope that the TTL does its job for you when you have a flash on the camera. Take this as an opportunity to do better next time buy studying your craft. 7. I do not say any of this to be mean. This is just an honest critique. You can ignore it and just think that "good enough" is "good enough." They are your clients and it is your life. However, my impression is that your occasional good photo doesn't warrant a sense of professionalism to dismiss a client's concerns. If you are going to demand money for your skill, then average photos rarity (bad photos should be a freak occurance), and the majority of your work should demand your clients pay you a fair wage. Thank you for being a genuine contributor. Even though this thread isn't related to directed to me, I appreciate your time in constructing your reply and your honest words of advice. Thank you. To the OP. I wont comment on the image quality. But if they are not happy with the album, refund their $100 (since they know the cost, thats actually a great thing. Its better then taking a hit at it's retail cost - whatever that might be). Or maybe offer to split the difference on a asuka book, etc. Happy clients = investment for the future. Mar 28, 2008 at 11:48 PM

andrew81 Offline Image Upload: On Dealing with Bridezilla I feel for ya mate. This forum has a rep for being pretty unrelenting for those not on top of their game. DragonflyDTM has extremely valid points and has made them very well. It is difficult when the parents like different types of photos than the B&G. candid wasnt a style back in the 50's and 40's. How do I deal with difficult clients? Thankfully I dont get many with weddings as I wont shoot for people I dont like. I do get some in commercial jobs though who have failed to give me an appropriate brief despite my best efforts to find out exactly what they want. Then whinge when they get something different to what they couldnt tell me about in the first place. For some reason I get a fair few people who book me based on my website images which are now old and not the creme of the crop of my wedding shots. I insist I send them a recent DVD slide show so they can see how I do things and so they are happy with what I do. This works two fold. 1 gives them a real opportunity to see what I do rather than base it of 18 web pics 2 gives me a come back if they wanna argue later. Mar 29, 2008 at 12:21 AM

mulder32 Offline Image Upload: Off Dealing with Bridezilla Some valid points already made on the positive and negative. Photoshop work needed on some of these, but alot of the photos are washed out I think because the wedding party wore light colors, on a light colored sandy beach, with a light sky. Tough to get great color range with that. Everyone has rough ones, so learn from the people in here--in fact, for your own learning, I would work on some of these in Photoshop (or whatever you use), and try to make them better for your next wedding. That way, you're learning with your own material. Good luck! Mar 29, 2008 at 03:51 AM

MarianneDoidge Offline Image Upload: Off Dealing with Bridezilla I would not be surprised in the least if she filed a law suit against me........ insured? -M Mar 29, 2008 at 04:05 AM

UGADawg Offline Image Upload: Off Dealing with Bridezilla If they paid $1500 with album included, they got what they paid for. Some people would complain if it was $300 or $13,000. Like one poster said, if they dont have the best relationship with you, then they will find a reason not to like the photos. Dont lose any sleep over it man. Mar 29, 2008 at 06:29 AM

snegron Online Image Upload: On Dealing with Bridezilla Most of the time I can tell if I'm dealing with a "bridezilla" during the first meeting with her. Normally I will just tell her I will get back to her to see if I'm available for her wedding and call her back telling her that I am booked that day. I usually set up an appointment with the B&G to go over the previews for the album. I show them images on my laptop, they don't get any proofs. I will give them a disk at the time their album is delivered ( I receive the album and then deliver it in person to the B&G). If I get any indication whatsoever during the preview stage that the bride is turning into "bridezilla", I will have a custom made release form with me at the time I hand the album over to her. She only gets to keep the album if she signs my very detailed release form. I state on that release form among other things that the client is entirely satisfied with the quality of my work and that he or she understands that by signing this form all parties have fulfilled their responsibities as outlined on the original contract. She can call back and bitch all she wants, but she signed the release form and has absolutely no leg to stand on in terms of getting me to give her something for free. I have only had to use my release form on two ocassions. Both brides were related. Must have been a family thing. Mar 29, 2008 at 07:14 PM

tomKphoto Offline Image Upload: Off Dealing with Bridezilla If they couldn't spend more than 1500 for storybook wedding coverage, they're really not going to like the 250+/hr that good lawyers charge. And no lawyer would take it - there's no damages here I can see. As long as you provided coverage and hard goods as contracted, she got what she paid for. There's a lot of important cases that get delayed in courts due to crap like this and judges are starting to be harsh on plaintiffs - it's a silent revolution happening now. I personally was voted Best Of 2008 by satisfied Knot brides, but I've had a few mad Mom's in my day. Last week my favorite wp in the whole world told me the best thing they ever did for business was to remove the Mom filter. They don't take photos for Moms and they don't meet with Moms. Also, they do an engagement session with every couple - last year they had to return a very large retainer because the bride suddenly didn't like seeing herself in the non-traditional way the studio is known for photographing people. Loved seeing it on the blog with other couples, but didn't like it on herself. Retainer returned - buy the engagment prints at portrait session rates if you're interested. Nice knowing you. As it was so clearly put to me, "I need fewer headaches, not more money." In the world of commissioned art, it's crazy to think we're going to have a 100% success rate. I'm ok with 95% Mar 29, 2008 at 09:04 PM

dennisyvette Offline Image Upload: Off Dealing with Bridezilla According to what you said was in the contract and what I have seen, it appears that you have fulfilled your end of the contract. The main issue I see and this is probably where she is coming from. The pictures are not bad by any means but they certainly could have been better. It's not so much what you captured, but how you captured them and what was done in Post Processing. In fact, there is very little post processing. In some of the pictures I see very harsh light. Was there a video guy that was too close to the couple? In others, I see that they are not cropped to give a much cleaner look. This is just a suggestion and in my humble opinion. I would go back through the images and do some post processing work. This would include cutting some background people out of the pictures. Also, your black and whites need work. They seem as if you just removed saturation and left them that way. I created an action for my black and whites. I only did this in the last year and have been happier with the results. Here is a quick step to try. I take away both the saturation and the hue. I then use curves if I need to lighten the image. I go into selective coloring and bring up the black. I then add contract to suit. I really don't see her going to court over it, and certainly not winning. I do see that you could go one extra step to try to make things better. You may never make her happy, but at least you will know you have given her your best. Yvette Mar 29, 2008 at 09:32 PM

jrscls Online Buy and Sell: On Dealing with Bridezilla On a positive side some of the photos are very nice, however I think you got caught up in the moment of such a beautiful background that you forgot to do more closeups. I love shots that show emotion. Also I would not have shown the bride all of the proofs. If a picture is unflattering, I would remove it from the collection so that what the client sees is only your best. Mar 30, 2008 at 12:13 AM

paparazzinick Offline Buy and Sell: On Dealing with Bridezilla well.. After looking at the origonal images on smugmug you have some serious focus problems. Weather it be a camera and lens back focus problem or poor craftmanship on your part. You are a good foot out of focus on a lot of kep photos that are a no brainer to capture. Too bad you dropped the ball there. A lot of your formals are dark and extremely grainy. One thing tells me there. You shot available light at high iso and totally screwed up the settings and then tried to recover in post and f'd up even more by adding a ton of grain because you were 2 stops under exposed. But you did say it was a $1500 job. Well I feel they got hat they paid for. An inexpensive less experienced photographer with mediocre work. Yea I am being hard on you but I get where they are coming from. I have a bride right now who is unhappy because she got prints from Walmart that suck. Umm yea they will suck but she doesnt want to hear that. I shoed her my print vs her print and she still doesnt care. Some clients are dumb and you need to realize you need to do a better job because a poor job is now a horrible job in their eyes. A good job and an ok job in their eyes. You learn from mistakes and hopefully next time you do better. If not give up and try a new profession. Edited by paparazzinick on Mar 30, 2008 at 08:13 AM GMT Mar 30, 2008 at 01:22 AM

mulder32 Offline Image Upload: Off Dealing with Bridezilla "If not give up and try a new perfession," paparazzinick--what's a perfession? Mar 30, 2008 at 02:16 AM

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