Baseball: Working for the tack sharp shot

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Archive 2008 · Baseball: Working for the tack sharp shot

DannWunderlich
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p.1 #1 · Baseball: Working for the tack sharp shot

I am working to get that tack sharp shot, wanted to see what the pro's out there think.

This image is copyrighted by the owner

Lens: Dmwierz's SIggy 120-300 2.8
Camera: Canon EOS 30D
Exposure: 1/4000 sec
Aperture: f/2.8
Focal Length: 197 mm
ISO Speed: 320
Exposure Bias: 1/3 EV

Thanks guys
-DannWunderlich
www.flickr.com/photos/dannwunderlich

Mar 26, 2008 at 10:09 PM

Ted ellis
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p.1 #2 · Baseball: Working for the tack sharp shot

No pro here. Dann sharp you bet. Color is popping, emotion is there. I like it.

Ted

Mar 26, 2008 at 10:15 PM

John Patrick
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p.1 #3 · Baseball: Working for the tack sharp shot

I like it, Dann. Got some dirt flying from both shoes, good seperation between subject and background, good emotion, nice and sharp except for the ball/throwing hand. Hard to believe that's motion blur at 1/4000 so I'm going to assume it's DOF-caused.

John

Mar 26, 2008 at 10:39 PM

DannWunderlich
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p.1 #4 · Baseball: Working for the tack sharp shot

thanks ted, I cannot wait until chicago starts turning green

John - thanks, i was wondering if maybe the highlights could have cause that fuzziness?

Speaking of green...you guys got about a foot of snow didnt you?

Thanks guys
-DannWunderlich
www.flickr.com/photos/dannwunderlich

Mar 26, 2008 at 10:49 PM

DannWunderlich
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p.1 #5 · Baseball: Working for the tack sharp shot

Any other thoughts or tips here

Mar 27, 2008 at 07:37 PM

Anthony_Smith
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p.1 #6 · Baseball: Working for the tack sharp shot

Dann, only thoughts I have are show some more! This looks great on my home monitor. Tack sharp, good facial expression and color saturation. Really pops.

Mar 27, 2008 at 09:46 PM

M Skarr
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p.1 #7 · Baseball: Working for the tack sharp shot

Looking good Dan. I'm slated to get on some softball, soccer and LAX there in a week or two so you should stop out. It is not easy to shoot that field until the grass greens up because of the rise in the outfield. Looked at the site- good stuff.

That Siggy seems pretty comfy in your hands- Seems almost a shame you don't own that lens right now. If I owned that lens I'd probably give it to you as a graduation gift.

(Remember you said I get $20 for throwing in the plug to Dmwierz)

Been meaning to tell you all the prints you have up around the school are the most well done ones we have ever had. What is the yearbook going to do without you next year

Mar 27, 2008 at 10:05 PM

dmwierz
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p.1 #8 · Baseball: Working for the tack sharp shot

M Skarr wrote:
Looking good Dan. I'm slated to get on some softball, soccer and LAX there in a week or two so you should stop out. It is not easy to shoot that field until the grass greens up because of the rise in the outfield. Looked at the site- good stuff.

That Siggy seems pretty comfy in your hands- Seems almost a shame you don't own that lens right now. If I owned that lens I'd probably give it to you as a graduation gift.

(Remember you said I get $20 for throwing in the plug to Dmwierz)

Been meaning to tell you all the prints you have up around the school are the most well done ones we have ever had. What is the yearbook going to do without you next year

Mark - Believe me, Danny's already working hard trying to separate me from Miss Siggy

Mar 27, 2008 at 10:13 PM

M Skarr
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p.1 #9 · Baseball: Working for the tack sharp shot

Better you than me!!!

Mar 28, 2008 at 03:12 PM

Dan N
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p.1 #10 · Baseball: Working for the tack sharp shot

Dann,

Stop it down a bit and you will find MUCH sharper images coming from that lens.

Every lens is at it's sharpest 2 stops from wide open.

I would rather shoot at 400 or 800 ISO and be at f/5.6 any day of the week.

Mar 28, 2008 at 03:16 PM

James Broome
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p.1 #11 · Baseball: Working for the tack sharp shot

Dan N wrote:
Every lens is at it's sharpest 2 stops from wide open.

That's quite a blanket statement.

Mar 28, 2008 at 03:49 PM

bobbyz
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p.1 #12 · Baseball: Working for the tack sharp shot

Dan N wrote:
Dann,

Stop it down a bit and you will find MUCH sharper images coming from that lens.

Every lens is at it's sharpest 2 stops from wide open.

I would rather shoot at 400 or 800 ISO and be at f/5.6 any day of the week.

Why would you use something like 300/400mm f2.8 at f5.6 all the time. Total waste of money IMHO.

Mar 28, 2008 at 03:50 PM

bobbyz
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p.1 #13 · Baseball: Working for the tack sharp shot

James Broome wrote:
Dan N wrote:
Every lens is at it's sharpest 2 stops from wide open.

That's quite a blanket statement.

I agree. My 400mm f5.6 was sharper wide open at f5.6 than at f8. I thought something wrong with it but then I found other users of same lens who reported same thing.

Mar 28, 2008 at 03:51 PM

Dan N
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p.1 #14 · Baseball: Working for the tack sharp shot

deleted duplicate

Edited by Dan N on Mar 30, 2008 at 12:53 PM GMT

Edited on Mar 30, 2008 at 12:53 PM

Mar 28, 2008 at 04:31 PM

DannWunderlich
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p.1 #15 · Baseball: Working for the tack sharp shot

Dan why did you post that twice?
Anthony - thank you thank you, ill try to post more

Thank you Mr. Skarr, i appreciate that- i am working on finding a replacement with the draw of using a FREE 30D and 70-200 2.8 and 580exII. i am also working on dennis ever so slowly

Dennis -just hurry up and DIE so i can all of your stuff. ok too far

i like separation in my shots...if you buy a $2700 lens it should be sharp at 2.8 because that it what you boughht it for

Edited on Mar 28, 2008 at 06:57 PM

Mar 28, 2008 at 06:55 PM

Dan N
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p.1 #16 · Baseball: Working for the tack sharp shot

Dann,

I have no idea why it posted twice.. sorry about that..

I agree that if you spend $2700 on a lens that it should be sharp wide open.. but the fact is, it will be sharper two stops from wide open.

Mar 30, 2008 at 12:53 PM

Dan N
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p.1 #17 · Baseball: Working for the tack sharp shot

Bobby,

Not at all a waste of money..

It will still focus faster, accept Teleconverters, and you could always open up more if you had to if the light was disappearing.

I just Googled "lens sweet spot" and came up with about 12 pages and the majority of the pages said the same thing.

A very good friend of mine who is a Master Photographer and teaches wildlife photography all over the world proved this to me when we were on a trip shooting in Florida. In a nut shell, I was shooting with my 1D and a 300 f/2.8 L set at wide open. He grabbed the camera, put in his card, and shot away. Back in the hotel, his stuff was MUCH sharper than mine.. when I asked why, he explained the whole thing. Ever since then, my images have been much much sharper.

Edited on Mar 30, 2008 at 01:11 PM

Mar 30, 2008 at 12:55 PM

P Alesse
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p.1 #18 · Baseball: Working for the tack sharp shot

When we first get into sports photography, the wide open mantra is pounded into our brains. I can tell you now after having shot over 1 million sports images, that if you're aiming to get the sharpest possible images from your lens, don't shoot wide open. Dan is right.

With the 300 and 400 primes, I'll stop down to f/5 or even f/5.6 especially with a TC on. Everything is tack sharp and when you have both an offensive and defensive player in the frame, both are tack sharp, with little to no difference in the bokeh of the BG. As long as your conscious of all the other things that make for a great shot, your keeper rate will go. Having a 2.8 or 1.8 lens is never a waste of money... you can go wide open when you need to under low light conditions. You don't have that flexibility with 5.6. Plus the quality of the photo is heads and tails above a cheaper lens. You do get what you pay for.

Mar 30, 2008 at 03:21 PM

dmwierz
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p.1 #19 · Baseball: Working for the tack sharp shot

P Alesse wrote:
When we first get into sports photography, the wide open mantra is pounded into our brains. I can tell you now after having shot over 1 million sports images, that if you're aiming to get the sharpest possible images from your lens, don't shoot wide open. Dan is right.

With the 300 and 400 primes, I'll stop down to f/5 or even f/5.6 especially with a TC on. Everything is tack sharp and when you have both an offensive and defensive player in the frame, both are tack sharp, with little to no difference in the bokeh of the BG. As long as your conscious of all the other things that make for a great shot, your keeper rate will go. Having a 2.8 or 1.8 lens is never a waste of money... you can go wide open when you need to under low light conditions. You don't have that flexibility with 5.6. Plus the quality of the photo is heads and tails above a cheaper lens. You do get what you pay for.

Dann - Paul really knows this stuff, and has shot the 120-300 f/2.8 quite a bit. Stopping down one stop (or even more, if the light allows) is something you should try.

Since this week is Spring Break, the games will be played earlier, and the light should be better than it has been so far this year.

Edited on Mar 30, 2008 at 03:45 PM

Mar 30, 2008 at 03:45 PM

cmilt
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p.1 #20 · Baseball: Working for the tack sharp shot

Paul:

I have seen your advice about shooting at 5.0 or 5.6 before. I mainly shoot soccer in the daytime. Does stopping down affect the focus speed? I am using Mark 2 and 300 2.8.

Thanks

Chris

Mar 30, 2008 at 04:45 PM

DannWunderlich
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p.1 #21 · Baseball: Working for the tack sharp shot

then i will definetly try it out...this is why i made the post, this type of advice.

So thank you too all, Paul and Dan thank you

i feel so honored to be enlightened by P Alesse

Mar 30, 2008 at 05:15 PM

DannWunderlich
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p.1 #22 · Baseball: Working for the tack sharp shot

wait so are you saying that @ f/5 you can get teh same bokeh as if shooting @ f/2.8?

is this due to compression? or maybe i read that wrong

Mar 30, 2008 at 05:16 PM

Scott Sewell
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p.1 #23 · Baseball: Working for the tack sharp shot

I'm not Paul,

but I've never noticed a drop in focus speed when dropping down with a Mk2 and any L lens combo.

Personally, I buy fast glass for the flexibility Paul mentioned. If I have a 400/f5.6 I might get great shots outdoors under the sun, and I might shoot at f5.6 with my 400/f2.8 under the same conditions. But get under the lights at a nighttime football game and that 400/f5.6 lens won't even make it out of the house.

With regard to DOF and "compression", there are many factors that play into this, most of which have been discussed recently in another thread.

This shot was taken at f5.6 with a 400/f2.8 just yesterday on a cloudy (and cold!) day, and I'm not sure one would really notice much difference if it had been shot at f2.8.

Edited on Mar 30, 2008 at 05:24 PM

Mar 30, 2008 at 05:20 PM

DannWunderlich
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p.1 #24 · Baseball: Working for the tack sharp shot

thanks for the image scott

Mar 30, 2008 at 07:05 PM

dmwierz
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p.1 #25 · Baseball: Working for the tack sharp shot

Dann,

Note Scott's statement:

"With regard to DOF and "compression", there are many factors that play into this, most of which have been discussed recently in another thread"

And look at the background in the shot he posted. There is a lot of "air" behind the pitcher so even at f/5.6 your BG is going to be very nicely blurred.

But even in "closer quarters" stopping down won't necessarily ruin your bokeh. Changing your aperture from f/2.8 to f/5.6 represents a move of 2 stops, which is a 4X decrease in light transmission into the camera (1/4 the amount of light gets through to the sensor), but it only increases the DOF by a factor of 2, not 4.

For example, shooting a 300mm lens across the diamond, say to catch a play at third base, taken from the first base side (approximately 150 feet distance from where we've been allowed to stand), would only open up the DOF from around 10 feet to 20 feet (10 feet in front of and 10 feet behind the base). Even the smallest of fields will have a lot more than 10 feet behind third base before you run into "junk" (like fences, etc). The junk in the background might not be quite as smoothly blurred as it would be at f/2.8, and it won't be as smooth as it is in the shot Scott posted above (where the background is far in the distance), but what you lose in bokeh blur will frequently be more than made up for by increased sharpness of the image.

Like Scott said,

"I'm not sure one would really notice much difference if it had been shot at f2.8"

Edited on Mar 30, 2008 at 07:49 PM

Mar 30, 2008 at 07:41 PM


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