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nathanlake Offline Image Upload: On p.1 #1 · Upgradable Cameras A lot of people on FM spend a lot of time listing all the features that they want in a new camera. Some are reasonable and some are not. But in general, I think we are in the wrong frame of mind when we ask for new features. What I want is a camera that can have new features added to it. Why can't they (Canon, Nikon, etc) make a DSLR with an upgradable sensor? Sell it with 8Mp, but let you upgrade to 10 or 12 or 20 at a later time. Why can't they sell a cheap camera without spot metering, but sell the spot metering as an add-on if I want it? Why can't I buy a 5FPS camera and upgrade later to 8FPS? Now, the agrument could be made that they would not sell as many cameras that way, but there must be a pricing structure that would allow them to continue to make an equal amount of money on the upgrades. I have a computer sitting here that I have had for almost 5 years. Due to memory, BIOS and CPU upgrades it is still close to top of the line. Jan 24, 2008 at 11:12 PM

invalid2 Offline Image Upload: Off p.1 #2 · Upgradable Cameras Consider the size difference between your computer and your camera. You can upgrade certain parts of your camera (or computer), for the camera those include lens, storage, battery, and some lighting. Also, consider upgrading from a vga monitor to one of the large flat panels with dual link dvi input - depending on the computer, you quite possibly cannot fully use the new screen without also upgrading the video card, and if the video card is built into the system board, that might be difficult. Realistically, I think the camera companies would be delighted at the idea of selling a base camera and upgrades. Of course, that would be related to the base camera costing more than most current dslrs, and the upgrades too. Jan 25, 2008 at 12:08 AM

Rocketball Offline Image Upload: Off p.1 #3 · Upgradable Cameras IMHO, one of the problems with the "future upgrade" feature is that the camera manufacturers are not totally in control of a lot of the technology advances used in DSLR's. So they may not really know what the next generation of sensors will look like, how big they will be, or how the internal wiring will work. Another thing to consider is the infrastructure they would have to put in place to handle all of the "upgrades". Getting service in a reasonable time right now is barely cutting it. Just think how much busier they would be doing upgrades....... It's easier for the manufacturers to use the manufacturing and retail markets already in place to distrubute and sell their products, so that's what they do. Jan 25, 2008 at 12:27 AM

nathanlake Offline Image Upload: On p.1 #4 · Upgradable Cameras I am glad you two guys are not in charge of Canon R&D. Jan 25, 2008 at 02:56 AM

ericevans Offline Image Upload: On p.1 #5 · Upgradable Cameras Why not , because they know you will buy the next model to keep up with the competition . Jan 25, 2008 at 05:50 AM

invalid2 Offline Image Upload: Off p.1 #6 · Upgradable Cameras nathanlake wrote: I am glad you two guys are not in charge of Canon R&D. Since I am not, I can say that probably the simplest way to offer what you are asking for (sort of) would be to build a camera to full spec, and then half-cripple it through software. Sell "upgrades" to restore this functionality (ala 3rd party firmware for the 300d/rebel). Jan 25, 2008 at 06:25 AM

nanscombe Offline Image Upload: Off p.1 #7 · Upgradable Cameras Hi All, Upgradable camera? The idea of unclipping one sensor and replacing it with another is not as daft as you would think. I'm not a Hasselblad expert but just think of the way their cameras work. You have the camera body and can clip on different film backs. On the newer digital H series, http://www.robertwhite.co.uk/products.asp?PT_ID=391&P=Hasselblad-H-Digital, you can get backs which are 22Mpx, 31Mpx or 39Mpx. Some of the main differences may be the size and shape of the camera, and the price of course. Regards Nigel Edited on Jan 25, 2008 at 08:23 AM Jan 25, 2008 at 08:20 AM

Tentacle Offline Image Upload: Off p.1 #8 · Upgradable Cameras nathanlake wrote: A lot of people on FM spend a lot of time listing all the features that they want in a new camera. Some are reasonable and some are not. But in general, I think we are in the wrong frame of mind when we ask for new features. What I want is a camera that can have new features added to it. Why can't they (Canon, Nikon, etc) make a DSLR with an upgradable sensor? Sell it with 8Mp, but let you upgrade to 10 or 12 or 20 at a later time. Why can't they sell a cheap camera without spot metering, but sell the spot metering as an add-on if I want it? Why can't I buy a 5FPS camera and upgrade later to 8FPS? Now, the agrument could be made that they would not sell as many cameras that way, but there must be a pricing structure that would allow them to continue to make an equal amount of money on the upgrades. I have a computer sitting here that I have had for almost 5 years. Due to memory, BIOS and CPU upgrades it is still close to top of the line. Why not? The reason is "Technical difficulties". If you swap out the sensor you'll need to swap the AF unit as well. The increased resolution of the sensor needs to be matched with more accurate AF resolution. But... If you swap out both the sensor and the AF unit, you'll need to swap the printed circuit board too. The processing chip (or multiple, in case of the 1D(s)3) will have to be able to keep up with the increased data output. The above is the biggest problem. Next to that, there is the design problem. Making /desining the sensor, AF unit and PCB to be easily replacable and user-servicable is a challenge. There is also a challenge in parts manufacture, stock keeping and distribution and an issue with warranty. And the final nail in the coffin: user replacable innards? Forget it. Not possible. Users lack the specialist tools to calibrate an AF unit after replacement. Often they lack a sufficiently clean environment to swap a sensor. I envision fried PCBs as a result of wrong handling (static discharge, ZZZapp!) misaligned sensors and AF units, dust contamination all over, and more. Manufacturer service-based upgrades? Well... Maybe. But the cost of the manual labor of swapping out sensor, AF and PCB and subsequent recalibration, plus the extra cost of stock keeping and distribution, not to mention the extra R&D costs in getting a modular system, will be more than just a new model body. Jan 25, 2008 at 12:31 PM

Rocketball Offline Image Upload: Off p.1 #9 · Upgradable Cameras nathanlake wrote: I am glad you two guys are not in charge of Canon R&D. Well, your original post did say "why can't they.....", so I was just throwing out a few reasons why. I never said I wouldn't want them to. Jan 25, 2008 at 12:38 PM

claudermilk Offline Image Upload: Off p.1 #10 · Upgradable Cameras nanscombe wrote: Hi All, Upgradable camera? The idea of unclipping one sensor and replacing it with another is not as daft as you would think. I'm not a Hasselblad expert but just think of the way their cameras work. You have the camera body and can clip on different film backs. On the newer digital H series, http://www.robertwhite.co.uk/products.asp?PT_ID=391&P=Hasselblad-H-Digital, you can get backs which are 22Mpx, 31Mpx or 39Mpx. Some of the main differences may be the size and shape of the camera, and the price of course. Regards Nigel The problem there is you aren't just dismounting the sensor, but the entire computer that processes the image as well. Those MF cameras were designed from the start to be modular and the size allows for some of that. It could probably be done in 35mm SLR format, but that would be a significant chunk of the body getting replaced. Probably the whole back would have to be removable so the processor gets swapped as well. That creates other issues (card and battery placement, top-of-the-body controls, etc). I'd expect such a beast to be cost prohibitive, at least for a long while. Jan 25, 2008 at 05:46 PM

invalid2 Offline Image Upload: Off p.1 #11 · Upgradable Cameras Tentacle wrote: Manufacturer service-based upgrades? Well... Maybe. But the cost of the manual labor of swapping out sensor, AF and PCB and subsequent recalibration, plus the extra cost of stock keeping and distribution, not to mention the extra R&D costs in getting a modular system, will be more than just a new model body. Though not the same as a sensor replacement a la MF digital backs, Nikon did something like that with the d1x and its picture buffer memory (ref) - I have no idea how many people got the upgrade. Jan 26, 2008 at 06:17 AM

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