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Archive 2008 · WOW! G9 Trounces F31fd.

  
 
Jman13
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p.1 #1 · WOW! G9 Trounces F31fd.


Well, as some of you know, I was contemplating a switch from my 6 month old Fuji F31fd to a new Canon G9 as my compact in cases where I don't want to carry my SLR, and I finally went through with it. I did some tests this evening to compare the 'vastly superior' F31 noise handling capabilities vs. the G9.

Let me say, as you will certainly say after seeing this: the G9 is a FAR better low light hand holding camera than the F31fd.

Testing Methodology:
Now, this does not compare tripod mounted exposures at comparable ISOs. The reason? The G9 has an IS lens, better handling, and has a significantly faster lens at the comparable long end, as you'll see.

I wanted to test shooting static subjects, while hand holding, to see what ISO you would have to shoot at to get sharp shots, and compare the output of those worst case scenarios. This was most important to me, because I usually shoot static subjects (architecture, landscape, abstracts), and I bring my SLR whenever I need serious people shooting capabilities. Obviously, higher ISO will help with moving subjects, but if you're using a compact without flash to capture motion in the dark, neither camera will do squat for you. I also didn't want any special lighting...you rarely have perfect lighting when out and about...so this is just my overhead light.

All shots were taken from the same distance, hand held, with the camera braced with both hands, elbows tucked inward, trying as best as humanly possible to keep still and have a light shutter press. Multiple shots at each focal length and setting were taken.

So, here are the results. First, shrunken G9 RAW images to show you the testing scene. These are processed with Lightroom v.1.3, with all defaults (including 25 on the color NR slider, as that's a default in Lightroom), and just resized.

First, the wide end:
G9, 7.4mm, f/2.8, 1/15 sec, ISO 400:
http://www.jordansteele.com/forumlinks/g9_wideRAW.jpg

Now, the mid range (on the G9), roughly equivalent to full zoom on the F31fd:
G9, 18.9mm, f/3.5, 1/25 sec, ISO 800:
http://www.jordansteele.com/forumlinks/g9_midRAW.jpg

Now, just to see what the long end can do for you, here's the G9 at full zoom:
G9, 44.4mm, f/4.8, 1/20 sec, ISO 800:
http://www.jordansteele.com/forumlinks/g9_teleRAW.jpg

So, there's the full scene. Now...on to the meat of the matter!

Here are 100% unprocessed RAW crops (on the G9) and JPEG (on the F31fd), with no adjustments, and RAW conversion at Lightroom defaults. The crops are the sharpest available images from two to four shots, at the ISO that yielded the sharpest images.

First up: Wide End:

G9, 7.4mm, f/2.8, 1/15 sec, ISO 400:
http://www.jordansteele.com/forumlinks/g9_wideRAW_crop.jpg

Now, the F31fd yielded ZERO sharp shots at ISO 400, so on to 800:

F31fd, 8mm, f/2.8, 1/35sec, ISO 800:
http://www.jordansteele.com/forumlinks/f31_wide.jpg

In my opinion, even at the per pixel level, a clear win for the G9.

On to the mid range (or full telephoto on the F31). Again, best shot out of those tried (two for the G9, SIX for the F31fd, at various ISOs). The G9 required ISO 800 to get a sharp shot, though ISO 400 was still sharper than the sharpest F31fd shot. There is a slight difference in focal length, due to the way the zoom stops on the G9, but it's not enough to make much of a difference, especially considering the shots AFTER these. For the F31, I am posting the best at ISO 800, and 1600:

G9, 18.9mm, f/3.5, 1/25 sec, ISO 800:
http://www.jordansteele.com/forumlinks/g9_midRAW_crop.jpg

F31fd, 24mm, f/5, 1/15 sec, ISO 800:
http://www.jordansteele.com/forumlinks/f31_mid800.jpg

And the F31 at ISO 1600:
F31fd, 24mm, f/5, 1/30sec, ISO 1600:
http://www.jordansteele.com/forumlinks/f31_mid1600.jpg

And finally, the G9 at full zoom:
G9, 44.4mm, f/4.8, 1/20 sec, ISO 800:
http://www.jordansteele.com/forumlinks/g9_teleRAW_crop.jpg

As you can see, the G9 resolves far more detail at the hand holding limit, even with the grainy output at ISO 800. The good news is, even though there is visible noise at 100%, the G9's high resolution means this noise will likely not even be visible until printed at 8x10 or larger. Not bad at all!

I also wanted to see a similar pixel count, and G9 JPEG processing...so here are the wide, mid range (F31 tele) and G9 telephoto shots from the G9 with unaltered JPEG ouput on the Medium resolution (8 megapixel) setting...these are 100% crops (I also got closer to the F31's tele end max here, at 22mm):

G9, 7.4mm, f/2.8, 1/15 sec, ISO 400, medium JPEG:
http://www.jordansteele.com/forumlinks/g9_wideJPEG.jpg

G9, 22mm, f/3.5, 1/13 sec, ISO 400, medium JPEG:
http://www.jordansteele.com/forumlinks/g9_midJPEG.jpg

And one at full zoom (only took one shot):
G9, 44.4mm, f/4.8, 1/20 sec, ISO 800:
http://www.jordansteele.com/forumlinks/g9_teleJPEG.jpg

Conclusion:

Well, I think it's pretty clear to my eyes that the G9 trounces the F31fd in similar focal lengths, similar lighting, for hand holding. The 2 to 3 stops in IS, plus the faster lens at the long end (at comparable focal lengths, at the Fuji's maximum zoom, the Fuji is at f/5, while the G9 is at f/3.5, a full stop advantage!), more than makes up for the pure ISO advantage of the Fuji. The G9 is also easier to hand hold in my opinion, providing a much more stable shooting platform. I have to say, I was very pleasantly surprised!

Also, while I have only posted the best images here, the G9's 'camera shake' images were in many cases better than the best shots I could get under these test conditions!

Another thing...while this is personal preference, I much prefer the G9's noise to the Fuji's...it feels so much more natural and film like. The G9 also produces a much less processed image, handles better, and provides the shooter with more control. The Fuji does have better Auto white balance under flourescent (as in these, especially noticable in the JPEG shots below), but if you shoot RAW, you never have to worry about that. The G9 overall also appears to have more vibrance, and considerably better detail resolution, especially at ISO 800.

I have to say, I am extremely pleased with my upgrade. Of course, I still carry my 30D and full kit for 90% of all my shooting, so this will only see occasional use, but it is nice to know that in those situations where an SLR is impractical, I can still get fairly decent images. Outdoors, where shallow DOF isn't a requirement, it'll hold its own, I feel. In 2007, I shot about 800 shots with my point and shoot, and 8,000 with my 30D, but it'll be nice to know that those 800 for this coming year will be of higher quality.

Edited by Jman13 on Jan 02, 2008 at 10:18 PM GMT

Edited on Jan 02, 2008 at 10:18 PM



Jan 02, 2008 at 08:48 PM
Gochugogi
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p.1 #2 · WOW! G9 Trounces F31fd.


Are those your books?


Jan 02, 2008 at 08:52 PM
Jman13
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p.1 #3 · WOW! G9 Trounces F31fd.


Combination of mine and my wife's, mostly hers in these shots, but yeah.

Edited on Jan 02, 2008 at 08:59 PM



Jan 02, 2008 at 08:58 PM
Jman13
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p.1 #4 · WOW! G9 Trounces F31fd.


Hi, thanks for the smart remark. I posted here because there is no "Canon Point and Shoot" forum, and there have been many posts on this very board about the G9, as it is one of the more popular supplements to people's SLRs.

As the G9 is one of the most advanced compact cameras out right now, and many serious shooters (myself included) often need a point and shoot for times where an SLR is extremely inconvenient , I thought this would be of interest to many people here. Sorry if you did not find it helpful. I regret that I forced you click the link to this thread, as I was under the impression that the thread title listing, and my title would lead you to ignore this thread if you did not find it relevant.


Edited on Jan 02, 2008 at 09:29 PM



Jan 02, 2008 at 09:28 PM
dcains
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p.1 #5 · WOW! G9 Trounces F31fd.


Methodology flaws aside, I can't believe how poor the noise control, even at ISO 400 is on the G9. Sorry, but I'm just not seeing what you seem to. And, yes, this is an SLR forum, while there are an abundance of places to post P&S info elsewhere.


Jan 02, 2008 at 09:32 PM
Jman13
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p.1 #6 · WOW! G9 Trounces F31fd.


I apologize if this thread does not belong here. As I have seen no fewer than 5 or 6 threads on the G9 that were well received in this forum, I thought it OK to post it here. Mods, please move it to the General Gear forum if you wish...

Also - dcains....ISO 800 shots with the G9, printed at 5x7 show absolutely no noise, unless you sit there with a magnifying glass. Sure, a 12MP shot at 100% will show noise on screen, but this is a point and shoot...it's not intended to replace an SLR. Obviously, my 30D at ISO 800 is better than the G9 at ISO 200, but for a 12MP image on a sensor that small, the resolving power and noise, especially in print (which is kind of the only thing I care about), is remarkable for a point and shoot, in my opinion.



Jan 02, 2008 at 09:38 PM
Liscia
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p.1 #7 · WOW! G9 Trounces F31fd.


Thanks for your time and trouble Jman13, now I know a little more about the G9 but really need to handle one before making up my mind on a camera
to keep handy in the car, etc...when the 40D stays home.



Jan 02, 2008 at 09:48 PM
JohnJ80
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p.1 #8 · WOW! G9 Trounces F31fd.


Thanks Jman - I puzzled long and hard before I bought my G9.

J.



Jan 02, 2008 at 09:55 PM
dcains
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p.1 #9 · WOW! G9 Trounces F31fd.


Jman13 wrote:
Also - dcains....ISO 800 shots with the G9, printed at 5x7 show absolutely no noise, unless you sit there with a magnifying glass. Sure, a 12MP shot at 100% will show noise on screen, but this is a point and shoot...it's not intended to replace an SLR. Obviously, my 30D at ISO 800 is better than the G9 at ISO 200, but for a 12MP image on a sensor that small, the resolving power and noise, especially in print (which is kind of the only thing I care about), is remarkable for a point and shoot, in my opinion.


I suppose that you make a good point, when you say that noise isn't a factor in your prints @ 5 X 7", but I like to print images to hang, not just flip-through. I guess my issue with cameras like the G9 is that Canon fell into the trap of designing and marketing it based on a few features that are thrown in to appeal to the uneducated masses. Those 12mp do nothing to improve resolution because of the detail lost to the noise generated by all those pixels being so cramped together. I'd love to have a great P&S camera, but the G9, whether compared to others or not, just isn't it. Digic III and an improved 6 or 7mp 1/1.8 or 2/3 sensor could potentially be so much better. I very much enjoyed my old G5 and G6, and still use the G5 (now converted to IR). I don't see the point in promoting such flawed camera, especially in an SLR forum, but as you mentioned, past threads have set a precedent in the case of the G9. Probably says more about those looking for a great P&S than it says about the G9 actually being that camera.



Jan 02, 2008 at 10:12 PM
Jman13
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p.1 #10 · WOW! G9 Trounces F31fd.


I do agree with you there. The G9, while a great camera for what it is, would be even better with a slightly larger 6MP sensor instead.


Jan 02, 2008 at 10:15 PM
Habzsi
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p.1 #11 · WOW! G9 Trounces F31fd.


Hi Jman13,

I found your post to be an interesting one.

I recently got G9 for those travels where I don't want to take +1.5kg DSLR kit with me. Since it was 2 weeks from now I'm just in the learning curve to determine the best use of this camera. What can it do for me and what are the hopeless situations?

Of course it is much more noisy then a DSLR, I don't mind this since it is 330 gr only.

However the point I have the more problem with is how shall I compose the frame. Shall I use the optical VF or the LCD. VF is pretty small and up to now I couldn't even set the right dioptry (big nose, small dial).

If I use LCD and held the camera away it will have a shake between composition
and exposure. So I finally get a shifted image.

How do you compose and shot with G9 normally?

Endre


.



Jan 02, 2008 at 10:15 PM
Cicopo
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p.1 #12 · WOW! G9 Trounces F31fd.


I also think your post belongs here since FM doesn't have one dedicated to the very popular high end P & S market, which many of us still need to rely on for whatever reason. I bought a G9 to use underwater, and frankly I am disapointed with the images vs a DSLR but thats the way it goes in the real world. After a lot of research it is the best I can buy for my particular task, and therefore I need to adjust my attitude, and that particular Fuji model was the competition, even though it isn't not available in stores today.


Jan 02, 2008 at 10:29 PM
Steady Hand
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p.1 #13 · WOW! G9 Trounces F31fd.


Hello Jman13,

I found this thread interesting because of your contribution to the forum and your good intent to use 'practical' scenario for judging something about the camera.

Point and Shoot or not, this camera is promoted by Canon as a high-end RAW capable and a complement to the digital SLRs. I find it appropriate to read about it in this forum and understand completely your reasons for posting your topic here. I also appreciate that you posted the helpful photos to show us what you saw.

I wish more people would spend time on helpful contributions like this rather than 'naysaying' and griping about the threads. IF the thread is not to your (the general reader) taste, just read another one and contribute on that one... if you can.

Sincerely,
Steady Hand



Jan 02, 2008 at 10:40 PM
TBannor
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p.1 #14 · WOW! G9 Trounces F31fd.


The G9 is a capable little camera and fine for a lot of stock work. This guy likes his:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1010&message=26269703

And here is Darwin Wiggett's G9 gallery, previously posted in another thread:

http://www.darwinwiggett.com/andlately.html


Edited by TBannor on Jan 02, 2008 at 09:59 PM GMT

Edited on Jan 02, 2008 at 10:59 PM



Jan 02, 2008 at 10:44 PM
Paratima
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p.1 #15 · WOW! G9 Trounces F31fd.


Nice test, Jordan. Thanks.


Jan 02, 2008 at 10:48 PM
Chrono1081
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p.1 #16 · WOW! G9 Trounces F31fd.


Thanks for the test Sorry so many people have to be up and rude about STUPID technicalities (I guess stupid people are about that stuff :P ) I appreciated your efforts.


Jan 02, 2008 at 11:05 PM
kwalsh
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p.1 #17 · WOW! G9 Trounces F31fd.


Thanks Jordan! And ignore the people jumping down your throat about it not being an SLR, the F31 and the G9 are discussed here all the time as Canon SLR backups/travel alternates and I find the contribution valuable. Your post is clearly addressed to SLR users and I thank you for your contribution.

I've got an F30, which is very nice to carry around. But of course, as great as it is compared to a lot of other P&S cameras I still cringe when I view it at 100% . Of course, it looks fine in web-shots which is mostly what I'd take with it.

Anyway, thanks for your input.



Jan 02, 2008 at 11:06 PM
galenapass
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p.1 #18 · WOW! G9 Trounces F31fd.


As others have said, nice post and in my opinion it is very appropriate to post in this forum. I have been thinking about the G9 as potential backup camera to my SLR gear. Based upon the images you present here - and those I have seen in dpreview - I think I will get one but also plan on a little NR during post processing. Thanks for your efforts.


Jan 02, 2008 at 11:54 PM
hogwallow
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p.1 #19 · WOW! G9 Trounces F31fd.


I recently bought a G9 and compared it to the F50fd, the successor to the F31fd. I choose the G9 for a number of reasons, but the F50 seemed to have the edge in image quality and noise.


Jan 03, 2008 at 08:37 AM
jamesf99
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p.1 #20 · WOW! G9 Trounces F31fd.


Thanks Jman13. You also have my permission to post here.

What does that mean? It means about as much as the thread police here telling you not to post information on a frequently asked question; i.e.,"what P&S should I buy"?

If the mod decides to move your post, then so be it. Until then, feel free to ignore them.



Edited on Jan 03, 2008 at 09:51 AM



Jan 03, 2008 at 09:50 AM
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