The death of the local camera store

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Archive 2007 · The death of the local camera store

tcphoto
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p.1 #1 · The death of the local camera store

I admit that I do not shop at local camera stores. The selection is not very good and the prices are much higher than online stores like B&H. I usually have enough time to order online but with the holiday I didn't have that luxury. A Client requested a specific seamless color and I was forced to buy locally. It's amazing how that $40. seamless ended up costing $80 at the local store. I can't muster any sympathy for these store. They can't seem to adapt to the changing market and I vow not to walk into those doors again.

BTW, when I commented on the outrageous price the salesman mysteriously lowered the price to $60.

Dec 25, 2007 at 08:58 PM

spanishbayonet
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p.1 #2 · The death of the local camera store

Small local business is what made this country great. Nafta and globalization of the economy may be inevitable, but that does not make it better. Have compassion for your local business, of which I am one, as well as many others here. Do you believe we can all get the pricing advantages of mega corporations? We provide service and commitment to our customers, which is what we all want as consumers.

Dec 25, 2007 at 09:38 PM

Jorgen Udvang
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p.1 #3 · The death of the local camera store

tcphoto wrote:
I can't muster any sympathy for these store. They can't seem to adapt to the changing market and I vow not to walk into those doors again.

Fine, don't go there again. The next time you need something in a hurry, just tell your customer to go somewhere else. There are probably lots of other photographers who could need some extra business.

Dec 26, 2007 at 12:27 AM

Micky Bill
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p.1 #4 · The death of the local camera store

Jorgen Udvang wrote:
tcphoto wrote:
I can't muster any sympathy for these store. They can't seem to adapt to the changing market and I vow not to walk into those doors again.

Fine, don't go there again. The next time you need something in a hurry, just tell your customer to go somewhere else. There are probably lots of other photographers who could need some extra business.

this is exactly the attitude that many small town stores have, enjoy shopping at the local store...
I am lucky living in LA where there is a choice of well stocked stores, Canoga, Samy's and Bel Air usually will have what you need. In a smaller town, good luck finding what you need, when you need it. Canoga has done an excellent job of adapting to the new mode of retail sales. They are a dinky little store with a great rep online and good prices in the store.

I don;t know if the small guy pays the same as the bigger guy or not, but I was told by a semi- small dealer that everybody paid the same price to Canon...so when the local guy is charging a substantial mark up, it's the buyers choice to walk out or not.

Dec 26, 2007 at 01:52 AM

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p.1 #5 · The death of the local camera store

I personally find it difficult to pay an extra $1000+ for something locally that I can get online, and be confident that it is in an unopened box (I have some experience otherwise with a couple local shops). These days, especially in the digital arena, it's even more important for local shops to change their focus to support more services (custom developing, custom printing, education, teaching in-field classes, sponsorships, etc) than just selling film, bodies, lenses, and carrying cases. They need to add value to their services, or expect to be swept away with the market changes.

Dec 26, 2007 at 02:18 AM

RDKirk
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p.1 #6 · The death of the local camera store

I am lucky living in LA where there is a choice of well stocked stores, Canoga, Samy's and Bel Air usually will have what you need. In a smaller town, good luck finding what you need, when you need it. Canoga has done an excellent job of adapting to the new mode of retail sales. They are a dinky little store with a great rep online and good prices in the store.

There is a "local store" about 30 minutes from me that has also gone online and is doing well (and we need to remember that B&H and Adorama are also "local stores").

In fact, my "local store" is a very, very small showroom with a very large stockroom in a commercial park rather than a retail store in a shopping center. Being online and serving a wider professional market rather than depending on local consumer walk-ins saves them a great deal of money on facilities and helps them serve me better.

Dec 26, 2007 at 02:55 AM

dpmurray
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p.1 #7 · The death of the local camera store

I've used a couple of the local more-pro oriented stores (PPR Atlanta and Showcase) in my area several times when I come up with something on short notice I need or the kind of thing that, by itself, isn't worth paying to ship (replacement lens caps, body caps, quick release plates for tripod head, rocket blower, and so on).

It also helps when you aren't entirely sure what you are after - like on a flash bracket - to be able to go and hold something to find out how it works, rather than trying to piece it together on line through reviews.

Also...with as many people who pixel-peep lens to see if it's a "sharp one" - a local store offers the advantage of timeliness.

I shop a lot on line - but I'll give a local store a call a lot of times, especially on the little stuff.

Dec 26, 2007 at 03:11 AM

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p.1 #8 · The death of the local camera store

I happen to be in a decent-sized market (Denver Metro Area) that is horribly lacking in the local photo shop area. There are plenty of Wolf Cameras around here (a division of Ritz) and a couple of local shops, but my experience has been exactly the same as mentioned by the original poster. They're understocked, overpriced, and have pretty lacking service. We've seen two shops go out of biz while I've lived here, both because there's just not a sustainable market in gouging an informed customer base.

I understand that things sometimes need to cost more locally, but not 50-100% more. The $80 roll of seamless that's $40 at B&H is a good example. You're telling me B&H gets it for 1/2 the price? I doubt it.

The idea that "you can just go elsewhere if you don't like it" is a great way to run yourself right out of business. Especially with an informed consumer base like most pro and semi-pro photographers. What happens is you end up selling only last minute stuff and stuff that's not worth shipping... like lens caps, rolls of seamless, and the occasional D40 to Aunt Sally... none of which carry the profit of a D3 or D300. It's a recipe for marginalization... and it's pretty much complete in Denver. But hey, you can see just about any bag you'd ever want in Denver... but they're marked up 75-100% over the going rate at B&H or Adorama.

Dec 26, 2007 at 03:35 AM

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p.1 #9 · The death of the local camera store

There is a local camera store near me. I would love to give him my business but the owner hasn't got a clue what he is doing. He recently purchased the business. The previous owner tried to help him but the new owner's arogance put an end to that. I purchased many things from the previous owner, who was very easy to work with. The previous owner did very well however because he was so honest and open about what he knew and didn't know.

The bulk of the stores business comes from doing 35mm film from walk-in's and drugstores. The current owner had never heard of an L lens before I showed him one. The list goes on. Do business locally? I would love to, but in my case that is not possible.

I suspect that a lot of small local camera store businesses are in a similar situation. They have been doing film processing for years and selling equipment on the side. Digital comes in and they fail to make the change or can't.

Dec 26, 2007 at 06:09 AM

Nathan Whitchu
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p.1 #10 · The death of the local camera store

Micky Bill wrote:
I don;t know if the small guy pays the same as the bigger guy or not, but I was told by a semi- small dealer that everybody paid the same price to Canon...so when the local guy is charging a substantial mark up, it's the buyers choice to walk out or not.

I can tell you with out a doubt that the little guys do NOT pay the same as the big guys... I used to see the prices when i worked for mom and pop shop and can tell you that B&H was selling the 70-200/2.8is for $50 LESS then the shop could buy it for from Canon. USA warranty and everything. It's tough being a small guy. Some of it has to do with minimum orders, distributors will give you discounts on volume, even if it's as simple as no shipping over a certain amount. order ten rolls of seamless and that $25 shipping charge gets spread out... order one roll and it adds to the price.

By no means am i justifying any business model, just telling you how it is from experience. I think the local camera store is dieing, nothing they can do about it. Just like the big box stores killed the mom and pop electronic store's, camera shops are being killed by the internet. Call it the evolution of the industry, or failure to adapt to the times. It's just a different world out there. But when i can get a 580exii from B&H for 425 and the local store charges 499, do you think it matters that i used to work there?

Friends is friends, but business is business. If i can lower my overhead with next to no effort and raise my profits.... I'm going to do it. I feel bad for the local stores, but they just can't compete for my money some times. I just bought a set of rechargeable AA's from Ritz, who gets them from Tocad (the Sunpack distributors) for $10, my local store charges $14.99 for the Sunpack ones.... Same batteries, not just the same type the SAME BATTERIES... now i happen to know how much the local store pays for those batteries and the markup on them (because i used to work there), and with my discount i can get pretty close to the Ritz price.... but still, I was AT the mall shopping.. which do you think i bought.

Dec 26, 2007 at 02:09 PM

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p.1 #11 · The death of the local camera store

Funny thing though, the only "local camera store" I frequent here in the Denver area is the best place to get things you can't find at the chain stores. I won't even walk into a Wolf Camera these days, it's usually a waste of time. They don't even carry the full line of Canon lenses, so even if you wanted to test one, it would be impossible most of the time. Most times the staff knows nothing about photography or anything about something I'm looking for. Sure, you can find anything on the internet, but sometimes, I prefer to go and look at it with my eyes, put it on my camera and take a few test shots. and if paying a little more is the price of keeping them in business, then it's no problem for me. They also rent equipment and will trade equipment and have a great selection of used gear most of the time. I also like the feeling that I'm in an environment more like the old barber shop, because I've got to know the folks that work there and there's always a good photographic conversation to be had without everyone getting stupid. Find that on the internet.

jbregar wrote:
I happen to be in a decent-sized market (Denver Metro Area) that is horribly lacking in the local photo shop area. There are plenty of Wolf Cameras around here (a division of Ritz) and a couple of local shops, but my experience has been exactly the same as mentioned by the original poster. They're understocked, overpriced, and have pretty lacking service. We've seen two shops go out of biz while I've lived here, both because there's just not a sustainable market in gouging an informed customer base.

I understand that things sometimes need to cost more locally, but not 50-100% more. The $80 roll of seamless that's $40 at B&H is a good example. You're telling me B&H gets it for 1/2 the price? I doubt it.

The idea that "you can just go elsewhere if you don't like it" is a great way to run yourself right out of business. Especially with an informed consumer base like most pro and semi-pro photographers. What happens is you end up selling only last minute stuff and stuff that's not worth shipping... like lens caps, rolls of seamless, and the occasional D40 to Aunt Sally... none of which carry the profit of a D3 or D300. It's a recipe for marginalization... and it's pretty much complete in Denver. But hey, you can see just about any bag you'd ever want in Denver... but they're marked up 75-100% over the going rate at B&H or Adorama.

Dec 26, 2007 at 02:21 PM

chez
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p.1 #12 · The death of the local camera store

SoloHiker wrote:
I personally find it difficult to pay an extra $1000+ for something locally that I can get online, and be confident that it is in an unopened box (I have some experience otherwise with a couple local shops). These days, especially in the digital arena, it's even more important for local shops to change their focus to support more services (custom developing, custom printing, education, teaching in-field classes, sponsorships, etc) than just selling film, bodies, lenses, and carrying cases. They need to add value to their services, or expect to be swept away with the market changes.

Sort of reminds me of today's professional photographer competing against the local wannabe photographers and being undercut.

Dec 26, 2007 at 04:29 PM

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p.1 #13 · The death of the local camera store

We used to have a place called the Guild in Phoenix , it was a great camera store and they carried everything . We lost it so Phoenix could have a rail system in the middle of a road . Now we are down to Photomark and Tempe camera . That said the rest suck and only sell what is hot .

That said the local stores get very little of my money as they don't sell what I shoot . Places like Global Imaging brings the camera store to me and that is much better for me .

Dec 26, 2007 at 06:20 PM

butchM
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p.1 #14 · The death of the local camera store

Dec 26, 2007 at 10:47 PM

spanishbayonet
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p.1 #15 · The death of the local camera store

The idea that you can use your local guy when you need the hands on, and then give all your big business to the " big box store" is low. I understand it, but don't condone it. Remember no matter who you work for, or what you do for a living, they can do it to you. And it can mean the loss of your job. That is entirely what is wrong with this country. We are all in the grip of , lack of a better term, Wal Mart Mania. Where all this is going, I don't know. But how many industries can be turned into a gigantic corporation?

Dec 26, 2007 at 10:52 PM

ericevans
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p.1 #16 · The death of the local camera store

spanishbayonet wrote:
The idea that you can use your local guy when you need the hands on, and then give all your big business to the " big box store" is low. I understand it, but don't condone it. Remember no matter who you work for, or what you do for a living, they can do it to you. And it can mean the loss of your job. That is entirely what is wrong with this country. We are all in the grip of , lack of a better term, Wal Mart Mania. Where all this is going, I don't know. But how many industries can be turned into a gigantic corporation?

Sadly for a lot of the pro shooters the local boys just don't service us . They don't usually carry the gear we need and can't get it either . The only thing my local dealer can supply me with is Profoto parts and that is about it . None have bothered to become Phase One or Leaf dealers either . If I could put hands on it locally I would buy here . I don't buy from the big boys in N.Y. as there are smaller dealers that can even beat them on the gear I use . If you are a pro shooter you owe it to yourself to get established with the pro dealers , nothing better than them coming to you to do business .

Dec 26, 2007 at 11:41 PM

Stripper
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p.1 #17 · The death of the local camera store

tcphoto wrote:
I admit that I do not shop at local camera stores.

Sorry you do not have a good local store. I don't know why this means you have to disparage all local stores.

I am lucky. I have a great local store, Robert's Imaging. I would never buy anything new...anything from seamless to cameras to lenses to lighting from anyone else. The advantage that Roberts has is service. They will let me try things before I buy. They keep a huge stock of professional equipment and sundries. They employ professionals who give me good face to face advice. In the rare case when I buy something defective, I deal with Roberts to make it right. They never over charge me. In fact, they are usually as good or better than the online places...but I would buy from them even if they were a little bit more. In short, they are close to perfect. My professional life would be much more difficult without them.

I not only buy from Roberts, but I want to keep them in business so much that I recommend them to anybody who asks my advice and plenty of people who don't.

I am sorry you don't have a good local store and or have not cultivated a relationship with a good local store. I still don't understand why you need to announce the "death of the local camera store". I am hear to tell you, as others have, that the local camera store is far from dead.

Peace,

John C.

Dec 27, 2007 at 02:32 AM

Craig Gillette
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p.1 #18 · The death of the local camera store

It's not WalMarts fault that "the smart buyer" goes to B&H for high ticket items. Photographers killed off the small local stores not some nameless, faceless corporation. The hobbyists and the professionals that looked to the backs of the magazines (of all sorts) and decided buyng the big items from New York (or wherever) killed the small stores. It's not just a photographic phenomenon, similar buying patterns have impacted all kinds of businesses. But lets not fool ourselves. We did it.

Dec 27, 2007 at 03:23 AM

Tom Slupek
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p.1 #19 · The death of the local camera store

I do not care or buy anything from my local Wolf Camera. They are way overpriced and never have anything in stock. Even the local Wolf mega-store does not have many things, they sure have a lot of empty shelves. I often make a 45 minute drive to Calumet Photographic to get some of my things. They were a lot closer but they moved to a new location. If local Wolf Camera went away I would not miss them a bit. I love the service and decent, but not great prices of Calumet. Calumet also rents a lot of glass at reasonable prices. I also do a lot of my camera gear purchases online.

Dec 27, 2007 at 03:46 AM

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p.1 #20 · The death of the local camera store

Wolf/Ritz Camera (yes, they're the same) stores are hit and miss. I know several in the Denver metro area that have excellent staff. There even was one north of Denver area that was really great until the Manager left and all the good employees left, too. You have to go to the Thornton store if you want good selection and service in northern Colorado, now.

As for the local camera stores in my area, if they have it in stock and I need it now or I need to see it before I buy it, I'll buy it from them. And they both have good staffing

Otherwise, I buy from B&H. My NAPP membership gets me free shipping and I don't pay sales tax. On a 5D+24-105 kit, that's a chunk of change I save.

The problem with franchise stores is that the quality is hit or miss. It all depends on the staff and it is hard to attract and KEEP good staff at under $10/hr and when the regional managers all have to bow down to the CEO's and other bean counters.

Stockholders want to see INSTANT profits and are not patient enough to wait a year to see results. Cultivating a customer base and earning their trust takes time. The bean counters want to count their beans NOW.

As a saleperson, I would much rather sell you exactly and only what you need so that you will remember me the next time you need photographic equipment.

The bean counters want me to sell you a $99 Fuji point and shoot along with an 8x10 printer and a memory card reader even though you came in for a Nikon D200.

With those two examples, I would be rewarded more if I sold you the Fuji and accessories than if I sold you the D200, regardless of the fact that you would (obviously) be likely to buy D200 accessories (lenses, cables, etc) from me in the future. Nope, they want that INSTANT profit NOW. Too bad, really.

RE pricing, the prices "might" be the same in the dealer wholesale book, but there are practices, rebates and incentives that allow the larger corporations to end up with a sizeable discount. And you'd be very surprised at what little profit margin there is in a $2,000 DSLR body.

Dec 27, 2007 at 05:03 AM

Brett Socia
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p.1 #21 · The death of the local camera store

Alright, I have to sort of chime in on this argument. I feel it's something that needs to be addressed. I hate absolutely hate the big box stores. The only one I will go to is Best Buy (only for the rewards zone card, diggin the coupons you get for 5-10 bucks off). I hate the rest of them. You walk in and you feel like you are more of a bother to them than you are their lifeblood (oh how this would change if they were on commission). If I walk into the local shop near me Adray Camera (Troy, MI), you will not be stalked by someone looking for a commission. Instead, they feel that, if you're in their store you know what your looking for. This shop is a little different though, they actually have customers in the shop everytime I am there.

They are very helpful, have things in stock, and if they don't have it in their store, they can get it there from their warehouse (about 40 minutes south) for you the next day. Yes their prices are a bit higher, not much higher than the big yellow tag, but they will match em if need be. Plus they give a discount on most anything, but if you're going to give me a discount why not just mark it down 20% and call it a day.

They are the only ones I take my film to get developed along with the only place I buy my film. They also have everything you need if you have your own darkroom. The also sell all the leading 'pods and heads, packs, cases, lighting, everything.

I however feel the same about other mom-n-pop shops out there. Given the choice of going to the anti-christ Wal*Mart or going 10-15 minutes out of my way to go mom-n-pop down the street, I am going 10-15 mintues down the street. For me, there is just something more to it when you walk in the store, they know who you are, they ask you how you're doing, how your last vacation was. You walk into the anti-christ and they only ask you if they can help you, but is more or less comes across as "what the hell do you want".

Sure the small guy can't buy the volume of a national chain, but I'll bet you that the small guy will be there when something goes wrong with what you bought, regardless of what it is. It isn't just the initial purchase that's better, it's the service after the sale, that the other stores can't touch. Well they can, only after you pay an extra $200 and wait in line for half an hour, talk with the clueless person behind the counter, for them to tell you an hour later that there's nothing we can do, and thank you, come again.

That's just my opinion though, I am sure some others have had other experiences. But for me, I'll gladly pay a couple bucks more.

Dec 27, 2007 at 01:22 PM

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p.1 #22 · The death of the local camera store

Brett Socia wrote:
Sure the small guy can't buy the volume of a national chain, but I'll bet you that the small guy will be there when something goes wrong with what you bought, regardless of what it is.

I disagree .. my experience with larger box stores and online mail order houses on returns & exchanges has been just great .. if there is a problem their return policies are generous and their turnaround times are quick.

Often the return & exchange policies with local stores is inconsistent and restrictive. And even if they manage to agree to a return or exchange, odds are they don't have it in stock.

One local camera store has this printed on all their receipts:
"Sorry, no returns on film, cameras, passports, or electronic equipment".

So if you buy a flash, get it home and it don't work you basically can suck eggs and wait for Canon warranty to repair it. Thanks, but no thanks.

There are very good reasons the small local camera store is almost extinct. In most cases good riddance.

Dec 27, 2007 at 03:17 PM

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p.1 #23 · The death of the local camera store

spanishbayonet wrote:
Small local business is what made this country great. Nafta and globalization of the economy may be inevitable, but that does not make it better. Have compassion for your local business, of which I am one, as well as many others here. Do you believe we can all get the pricing advantages of mega corporations? We provide service and commitment to our customers, which is what we all want as consumers.

No. What makes this country great is that anyone has the opportunity to start a small business. What makes this country great is that it allows for a competitive market whether it be between small businesses or conglomerates. What makes this country great is that a small business can thrive as a small business and also grow into a large business. What makes this country great is that I'm not stuck dealing with inept business owners who refuse to adapt and compete. I'm free to find the best product and the best service. That makes this country great.

Dec 27, 2007 at 03:51 PM

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p.1 #24 · The death of the local camera store

If you give your small "mom and pop" stores a chance, many of them WILL work with you on pricing, you just need to be an informed consumer and ask. Too many buyers walk into a store, see the sticker price and walk away without asking anyone if they can do better on the price. If you don't ask, the answer is already NO, every time.

I went into my local Penn Camera store yesterday to buy some Think Tank belt accessories and a Pocket Wizard, but before I went, I did some research on line and knew what the best prices were from the larger on-line retailers.

They couldn't move on the Think Tank gear price, and I already knew that, but when I asked if they could do better on the Pocket Wizard, the saleman asked what price I had in mind. I said, "Well, I know I can buy one today at Amazon.com thru Adorama for $183 and get free shipping". He went back and talked to the store owner, came back and said, "sure, we can match that". Done, ring me up and put it in the bag. Win-Win. I got what I wanted at the price I needed, and they got the sale.

I know it doesn't always work that way, but if you don't ask, you'll never know. Like I said, if you give them the opportunity to compete for your business, much of the time you will both win.

Dec 27, 2007 at 05:08 PM

Brett Socia
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p.1 #25 · The death of the local camera store

Mike Mahoney wrote:
I disagree .. my experience with larger box stores and online mail order houses on returns & exchanges has been just great .. if there is a problem their return policies are generous and their turnaround times are quick.

Often the return & exchange policies with local stores is inconsistent and restrictive. And even if they manage to agree to a return or exchange, odds are they don't have it in stock.

One local camera store has this printed on all their receipts:
"Sorry, no returns on film, cameras, passports, or electronic equipment".

So if you buy a flash, get it home and it don't work you basically can suck eggs and wait for Canon warranty to repair it. Thanks, but no thanks.

There are very good reasons the small local camera store is almost extinct. In most cases good riddance.

Well what I usually do when I have issues is call first, let them know what the issue is, tell them I am coming in the next day, allows them to get whatever they need in. It also helps you build some sort of rapport with the sales staff there. I haven't had anything but good experiences with the small mom-n-pop shops. When something is wrong I don't have to call up some customer service line, sit on hold, hope the dolt on the other line who is answering the phone somwhere in Banglidesh trying to tell me his name Bob, knows what I am trying to say. Then put it in a box ship it to god only knows where, wondering if I am going to actually get it back, then call up good ol' Bob over there in India again to confirm that they received my now even more broken equipment.

I am one for "instant gratification", patience is not really one of my virtues when it comes to relying on other people to get things done for me. I would much rather get it done myself. So I still stand behind the mom-n-pop shops.

I recon this debate could head in the same direction as a Canon vs. Nikon debate, so lets just agree to disagree, and just take some pictures...

Dec 27, 2007 at 05:29 PM


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