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Ryan Britton Offline Buy and Sell: On p.1 #1 · Printer Advice - Pro Lab quality desktop-sized inkjet? With some of what we experienced this month with last minute Christmas print requests, I'm looking into getting a printer for us to handle these internally as I'm totally dissatisfied with the print quality of the local quickie printers such as Costco and Walgreens. I've been eying both the Canon Pro9000 (dye-based) and Pro9500 (pigment-based) wondering if they'll come close to the prints I normally receive from WHCC. I guess my question is: which of these two printers (if either) will come closest to the print results from a lab such as WHCC? We do primarily lustre prints so a paper option that comes closest to Kodak Supra Endura E (Lustre) would help as well. We shoot with Canon gear if that makes any difference as well. I'd like to keep the printer cost at <$700, but I may be convinced to go a little higher for "The One". Dec 23, 2007 at 07:03 PM

Rodolfo Paiz Offline Image Upload: On p.1 #2 · Printer Advice - Pro Lab quality desktop-sized inkjet? I believe I read on WHCC's site that they print their high-end stuff on inkjets precisely due to the quality. So that may answer some of your question. The new pigment printers are giving great quality and great longevity. I own an HP B9180, but I've heard consistently from others that the Pro 9500 is highly recommended and a wonderful printer. Based on lots of second-hand views, I think that one would be a better buy for you. And yes, once you put in a little effort (monitor calibration, paper profiles, and such) you'll get quality that matches or exceeds an outside lab's. It's not just about the printer... it's about your creative intent (which the lab may not get quite so), about the file format (you can print from a 16-bit ProPhotoRGB file, the lab converts to 8-bit JPG), and other factors. I never farm out anything that my printer can handle any more. And in the future, I plan on moving to a larger printer so I don't have to farm anything out... at all. Does that help? Dec 23, 2007 at 08:47 PM

Rodolfo Paiz Offline Image Upload: On p.1 #3 · Printer Advice - Pro Lab quality desktop-sized inkjet? BTW, there's some kind of rebate going on where people have gotten a Pro9000 for free or a Pro9500 for $250. You may want to look into that, and see if it makes sense for you. Maybe you have to get a camera, but can then keep/sell/trade the camera for something else... may or may not be worth your while, but always good to check. Dec 23, 2007 at 08:49 PM

davekone Offline Image Upload: On p.1 #4 · Printer Advice - Pro Lab quality desktop-sized inkjet? Look at the Canon ipf5000 and Epson 3800. I was in the same boat kinda, my Canon i9900 died and the ink costs were killing me. By getting a larger printer with larger ink tanks the ink cost goes down and so do your costs. Buying the smaller printer should only be an option if you do not print much, if you do plan to print the ink will destroy the fact that you bought a $200-$400 printer. For example the Epson 3800 is $1100. You get about $400 in ink with the printer, factor this in and the savings in print cost and you got your $700 printer and then some. Edited on Dec 23, 2007 at 10:10 PM Dec 23, 2007 at 10:06 PM

pmacino Offline Buy and Sell: On p.1 #5 · Printer Advice - Pro Lab quality desktop-sized inkjet? Epson currently has some 3800 refurbs for sale on their website. $995 shipped. I used to farm out all prints to WHCC and Millers, then picked up a 3800 and farmed only what I needed to. Once I figured out my COGS and COGP, I actually ended up selling the 3800 and replacing it with a 4880 w/a full RIP. The 3800 produces gorgeous prints, but to reduce product costs, I found you really need to use role paper. The one caveat is that my current printer's smallest media size is 8 1/2x11 (the 3800 could do 4x6 boderless). Whenever I do 4x6"s now, I usually shoot them down role paper. The cost per print took a serious nose dive when using the role. Edited on Dec 23, 2007 at 11:03 PM Dec 23, 2007 at 11:02 PM

davekone Offline Image Upload: On p.1 #6 · Printer Advice - Pro Lab quality desktop-sized inkjet? pmacino is also correct the roll paper and cutting yourself can save money depending on how much is involved in cutting the paper labor wise. 24"x100 foot roll of Epson Luster is .003 cents per sq inch or .24 cents for a 8x10. 250 sheets of 8.5x11 Luster is .006 cents per sq inch or .48 cents for a 8x10. In both cases the scrap or waste may make one less expensive than the other. For example you can pull 3 8x10s on a 24" wide roll 8x3=24 where as the 8.5x11 paper would waste .5 inches on one side by 1" or 13.5" gone. In the end depending on print volume the larger ink tanks and or roll paper can help cut costs tremendously. Dec 23, 2007 at 11:38 PM

Ryan Britton Offline Buy and Sell: On p.1 #7 · Printer Advice - Pro Lab quality desktop-sized inkjet? WHCC uses inkjets for their large-format fine art prints. All of the thrifty prints are using the kodak endura paper, which is where most of my experience with them is. I've had HP in the past but have grown increasingly unhappy with their products, so this will be the first other brand printer purchase for me. We do not have the money to fork out for the iPF5000 at the moment, which is something I also considered, hence the two just below it. I'm leaning most towards the Pro9500 now, but I also need to find the lustre paper that'll produce the best results with it so suggestions there are welcome too. I have very little experience with papers but tons with on-screen color calibration so that part is new to me. I have no need for a new camera body at the moment so I'll only get the $100 rebate that canon is currently offering towards it. Dec 24, 2007 at 02:10 AM

pmacino Offline Buy and Sell: On p.1 #8 · Printer Advice - Pro Lab quality desktop-sized inkjet? For a good reasonably priced luster paper check out the Ilford Gallerie Smooth Pearl. This would be the correct paper for you (pigment ink) if you went with the 9500. Do not use the Gallerie Classic Pearl...it is for use with dye based inks. Moab also makes a nice medium priced paper called Lasal Photo Luster 270. Edited on Dec 24, 2007 at 07:50 AM Dec 24, 2007 at 07:50 AM

Rodolfo Paiz Offline Image Upload: On p.1 #9 · Printer Advice - Pro Lab quality desktop-sized inkjet? Try a few sheets of the Epson Premium Luster, I've been told all sorts of nice things about it and just bought a 13" roll recently. My other experience is with HP APP for the B9180, and that won't help you. I'm trying to figure out whether the new Harman Gloss FB Al is for dye- or pigment-based printers, after a glowing review in Luminous Landscape made me at least want to try it. Dec 24, 2007 at 08:48 AM

pmacino Offline Buy and Sell: On p.1 #10 · Printer Advice - Pro Lab quality desktop-sized inkjet? Rodolfo Paiz wrote: Try a few sheets of the Epson Premium Luster, I've been told all sorts of nice things about it and just bought a 13" roll recently. My other experience is with HP APP for the B9180, and that won't help you. I'm trying to figure out whether the new Harman Gloss FB Al is for dye- or pigment-based printers, after a glowing review in Luminous Landscape made me at least want to try it. It works well with pigment based printers. It's more of a true glossy than a luster though and can scratch easily. I've worked quite a bit with it, along with the other fiber/baryta papers from Hahnemuhle, Epson, Ilford, Innova, and Ilford. My personal favorite is the Hahnemuhle Fine Art Baryta 325. Dec 24, 2007 at 10:26 AM

Chip Payet Offline Image Upload: Off p.1 #11 · Printer Advice - Pro Lab quality desktop-sized inkjet? My Canon i9900 also died recently, and I need a replacement. Looking at reviews on B&H's website gives the impression that the Canon's aren't as reliable in color reproduction, and that it takes more work in calibration to get the results desired, at least compared to the Epsons. Also, the Canon's don't seem to do well with true glossy papers? However, I didn't see an Epson 3800 on their website? Guess I'll check out Epson's website. How much of a difference is there between dye-based and pigment-based? I'm a newbie when it comes to getting the best results from prints, just relied on a friend's advice when I got the i9900. Dec 24, 2007 at 02:21 PM

Ryan Britton Offline Buy and Sell: On p.1 #12 · Printer Advice - Pro Lab quality desktop-sized inkjet? pmacino wrote: For a good reasonably priced luster paper check out the Ilford Gallerie Smooth Pearl. This would be the correct paper for you (pigment ink) if you went with the 9500. Do not use the Gallerie Classic Pearl...it is for use with dye based inks. Moab also makes a nice medium priced paper called Lasal Photo Luster 270. Here's something you hopefully have a sample lying around and can answer: what's on the back of the Ilford Gallerie Smooth Pearl? For example, the Kodak Endura papers say "Professional DO NOT COPY" Dec 24, 2007 at 05:03 PM

SoundHound Offline Buy and Sell: On p.1 #13 · Printer Advice - Pro Lab quality desktop-sized inkjet? The Canon Pro9000 is a dye based printed with their newest (better color permanence) inks. It will make better prints on hi Glossy paper than the Pro9500 (or any other pigment printer). If you want other than glossy paper then the Pro9500 (pigment ink) is what you want. I get really good results with just calibrating my monitor and using canon color management on their (and other's) glossy paper. As for the Canon ipf 5000, that's a 17" wide carriage/pigment unit ink (no one makes a wider than 13" modern dye based printer). It has been marked down a lot because of its problems (replaced with the newer 5100). So look at the "Wikis" that describe the 5000's idiosyncrasies to see if they affect you (EX. If you want to print wide carriage B&W with other than glossy you will want the 5100). Dec 24, 2007 at 05:47 PM

pmacino Offline Buy and Sell: On p.1 #14 · Printer Advice - Pro Lab quality desktop-sized inkjet? Ryan Britton wrote: Here's something you hopefully have a sample lying around and can answer: what's on the back of the Ilford Gallerie Smooth Pearl? For example, the Kodak Endura papers say "Professional DO NOT COPY" Yep, it has absolutely nothing on the back. I had an archival self-inking stamp made with copyright information and my contact info for reprints to solve the issue. I found that it makes a little more of a statement since I went to the effort of putting it there, over the old standard. At least I like to think so. FWIW, I heard that Epson has just started pulling their backside printing off of their professional papers at photographer request. The Epson Exhibition Fiber that I took delivery of has no back printing as well and the Premium Luster paper now simply says, "Epson/Epson Professional". They removed the "Do Not Duplicate" portion. Regardless of my own stamp, I did like seeing it. as it made the papers feel a bit more lab printed. My Nirvana, my inkjet front with a lab back. Edited on Dec 24, 2007 at 06:16 PM Dec 24, 2007 at 06:15 PM

Ryan Britton Offline Buy and Sell: On p.1 #15 · Printer Advice - Pro Lab quality desktop-sized inkjet? pmacino wrote: Yep, it has absolutely nothing on the back. I had an archival self-inking stamp made with copyright information and my contact info for reprints to solve the issue. I found that it makes a little more of a statement since I went to the effort of putting it there, over the old standard. At least I like to think so. I definitely want something on the back and this is a good approach. Did you happen to order this somewhere online? Some quick googling isn't turning up anyone that mentions archival-grade inks. Dec 24, 2007 at 07:28 PM

pmacino Offline Buy and Sell: On p.1 #16 · Printer Advice - Pro Lab quality desktop-sized inkjet? Ryan Britton wrote: I definitely want something on the back and this is a good approach. Did you happen to order this somewhere online? Some quick googling isn't turning up anyone that mentions archival-grade inks. I just ordered a custom one from vistaprint.com. I removed the stock ink with a better archival ink pad. You can find those at most craft or scrap-booking stores. I think I found mine at Michael's or JoAnn Fabrics and Crafts.. Dec 24, 2007 at 08:13 PM

tomm101 Offline Image Upload: Off p.1 #17 · Printer Advice - Pro Lab quality desktop-sized inkjet? SoundHound wrote: The Canon Pro9000 is a dye based printed with their newest (better color permanence) inks. It will make better prints on hi Glossy paper than the Pro9500 (or any other pigment printer). If you want other than glossy paper then the Pro9500 (pigment ink) is what you want. I get really good results with just calibrating my monitor and using canon color management on their (and other's) glossy paper. As for the Canon ipf 5000, that's a 17" wide carriage/pigment unit ink (no one makes a wider than 13" modern dye based printer). It has been marked down a lot because of its problems (replaced with the newer 5100). So look at the "Wikis" that describe the 5000's idiosyncrasies to see if they affect you (EX. If you want to print wide carriage B&W with other than glossy you will want the 5100). As for the Canon iPF5000 most of its problems were Canon getting used to what LF printer owners demand for service. Epson had similar problems when they started out. Canon has their act mostly together. Those of us who bought the 5000 have a printer that just works with very few problems. Color is no problem, my prints are better than what I was getting from Chromira prints, B&W is far superior. Very little gloss differential or bronzing with good profiles. Reports have the 5100 as even better. Also no clogs, no ink switching. Tom Dec 24, 2007 at 09:30 PM

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