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Alternative Image Thread 3
  
 
KrankyKraut
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p.567 #1 · p.567 #1 · Alternative Image Thread 3


6D and Yashica ML 50mm 1.9


Purple Rose by FilmFlamMan, on Flickr



Feb 04, 2014 at 04:03 AM
denoir
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p.567 #2 · p.567 #2 · Alternative Image Thread 3


Trying out a new "tripod".. with a Gopro Hero3+ Black camera:

























Almost forgot - here's the "tripod" in question:






It's a DJI Phantom 2 with a Zemuse H3-2D gimbal. Unbelievable little thing. My conclusion is that the Gopro 3+ is not good enough for photography, but fantastic for video. Here's an example that I shot with the setup above:

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Feb 06, 2014 at 02:13 PM
mortyb
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p.567 #3 · p.567 #3 · Alternative Image Thread 3


^ Cool!


Feb 06, 2014 at 02:56 PM
carstenw
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p.567 #4 · p.567 #4 · Alternative Image Thread 3


Nice to see you here, Luka! Are you allowed to fly over gamla stan?


Feb 06, 2014 at 08:35 PM
Toothwalker
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p.567 #5 · p.567 #5 · Alternative Image Thread 3


denoir wrote:
Trying out a new "tripod".. with a Gopro Hero3+ Black camera:


. How do you compose, or do you just shoot around and pick the good ones later?






Feb 06, 2014 at 10:20 PM
sflxn
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p.567 #6 · p.567 #6 · Alternative Image Thread 3


Denoir, what other cameras have you tried attaching to it? This looks really fun.


Feb 06, 2014 at 10:39 PM
denoir
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p.567 #7 · p.567 #7 · Alternative Image Thread 3


carstenw wrote:
Nice to see you here, Luka! Are you allowed to fly over gamla stan?


Hi Carsten As things are now it's completely unregulated. However IMO one should be a bit careful. The thing weighs about 4 kg and crashing it onto a busy street probably wouldn't be good. I'm also not sure how happy they would be if I flew it over the royal palace (next to gamla stan).

Toothwalker wrote:
. How do you compose, or do you just shoot around and pick the good ones later?


I have a live video downlink with a range of about a km (more if you are flying outside the city where there is less radio interference). For the most part I fly FPV (first person view) through a monitor - the drone is usually too high up and far away to be seen or even heard.

There's a catch though - I can control the tilt of the gimbal and the aircraft itself, but I can't trigger the Gopro shutter remotely. So I put it in a time lapse mode so that it takes a shot every 5 seconds. So I frame, wait for it to take a shot and fly on.

The ultimate problem is however that for still photos the Gopro Hero3+ Black just sucks - worse than a modern mobile phone camera. (For video on the other hand it's actually very good in terms of quality)

sflxn wrote:
Denoir, what other cameras have you tried attaching to it? This looks really fun.


I haven't, but others have. The RX100 is a popular choice although not really suitable for video as you can't attach it to a stabilized gimbal. The quad's carrying capacity is about 1.4 kg. You also have to figure out how to trigger the shutter. Wi-Fi is not a good idea as the main controller uses 2.4 GHz as well and there have been cases of flyaway drones (earlier versions, supposedly they have it fixed now, but still).

There's also a version with a built in camera: http://www.dji.com/product/phantom-2-vision/ that actually has RAW support. It seems to be a bit better for photography than the gopro, but much worse for video (no gimbal stabilization) and a much more limited range (about 300 meters instead of 1+ km)

And yes, it's really fun



Feb 07, 2014 at 05:33 AM
sflxn
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p.567 #8 · p.567 #8 · Alternative Image Thread 3


denoir wrote:
I haven't, but others have. The RX100 is a popular choice although not really suitable for video as you can't attach it to a stabilized gimbal. The quad's carrying capacity is about 1.4 kg. You also have to figure out how to trigger the shutter. Wi-Fi is not a good idea as the main controller uses 2.4 GHz as well and there have been cases of flyaway drones (earlier versions, supposedly they have it fixed now, but still).

There's also a version with a built in camera: http://www.dji.com/product/phantom-2-vision/ that actually has RAW support. It seems to be a bit better for
...Show more

Are you able to see the video live on your phone over wifi? I can't believe the range would be that good if you could.



Feb 07, 2014 at 05:37 AM
denoir
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p.567 #9 · p.567 #9 · Alternative Image Thread 3


sflxn wrote:
Are you able to see the video live on your phone over wifi? I can't believe the range would be that good if you could.


I have a 5.8 GHz analog video downlink that has a range of 1+ km. I have not flown further than about 400m up and 1 km away but others have pushed it much furhter. On the ground side I have a reciever hooked up to a monitor. I can see what the camera sees plus an overlay of information that shows me the battery status, drone position, speed, number of GPS satellites locked etc

That other version with a built in camera uses Wi-Fi to give a live feed, and yes, the range is much shorter compared to the analog 5.8 GHz system.



Feb 07, 2014 at 05:52 AM
sflxn
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p.567 #10 · p.567 #10 · Alternative Image Thread 3


denoir wrote:
I have a 5.8 GHz analog video downlink that has a range of 1+ km. I have not flown further than about 400m up and 1 km away but others have pushed it much furhter. On the ground side I have a reciever hooked up to a monitor. I can see what the camera sees plus an overlay of information that shows me the battery status, drone position, speed, number of GPS satellites locked etc

That other version with a built in camera uses Wi-Fi to give a live feed, and yes, the range is much shorter compared to the analog
...Show more

The specs on their website says the radio transmitter only go as far as 300m. What good is an analog video downlink of 1km if you can only control it up to 300m?

Why did you chose the GoPro model instead of the DJI camera? High res video? The DJI camera looks like it will take still images in RAW.



Feb 07, 2014 at 07:06 AM
 

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carstenw
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p.567 #11 · p.567 #11 · Alternative Image Thread 3


denoir wrote:
Hi Carsten As things are now it's completely unregulated. However IMO one should be a bit careful. The thing weighs about 4 kg and crashing it onto a busy street probably wouldn't be good. I'm also not sure how happy they would be if I flew it over the royal palace (next to gamla stan).


Yeah, I can see that. However, rather than fly around all over the place, I could imagine that simply going somewhere, and flying up and then down would still get you some interesting shots. Personally, I would try hooking up a camera like the Olympus E-PL5, very nice image quality and very small and light, or even my Sony A7.

What Phantom are you flying, the plain Phantom 2, like this:

http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=171214311538



Feb 07, 2014 at 07:29 AM
denoir
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p.567 #12 · p.567 #12 · Alternative Image Thread 3


sflxn wrote:
The specs on their website says the radio transmitter only go as far as 300m. What good is an analog video downlink of 1km if you can only control it up to 300m?


The stock radio transmitter on the phantom 2 (not vision) is officially rated for 1 km ( http://www.dji.com/tech-spec/phantom-2-spec/ ), but in reality it's more like 2-3 km.

The Phantom 2 Vision model uses Wi-Fi and has a shorter range (300m in theory, half of that in practice)

Why did you chose the GoPro model instead of the DJI camera? High res video? The DJI camera looks like it will take still images in RAW.


Yep, as well as video stabilization and range. The Phantom 2 has a gimbal that the gopro is mounted on while the Phantom 2 Vision has the camera attached directly to the fuselage which results in shaky footage.



Feb 07, 2014 at 07:35 AM
denoir
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p.567 #13 · p.567 #13 · Alternative Image Thread 3


carstenw wrote:
Yeah, I can see that. However, rather than fly around all over the place, I could imagine that simply going somewhere, and flying up and then down would still get you some interesting shots. Personally, I would try hooking up a camera like the Olympus E-PL5, very nice image quality and very small and light, or even my Sony A7.

What Phantom are you flying, the plain Phantom 2, like this:

http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=171214311538


Unfortunately you'd have to get something more heavyweight to carry an A7 or E-PL5. From what I understand, using the Rx100 is already pushing it.

Yeah, it's a stock DJI Phantom 2, with a Zenmuse H3-2D Gimbal and a AVL58 video downlink. I'll probably add another component later that allows for autonomous flight (you define waypoints on an map on a tablet).



Feb 07, 2014 at 07:39 AM
carstenw
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p.567 #14 · p.567 #14 · Alternative Image Thread 3


Ah, the 1.3kg includes the chopter itself? That is too bad. Well, the RX100 is also a nice camera.

Wait, so the Phantom 2 + Gimbal + downlink = 1000g + 230g + 22g + 60g = 1312g, so the camera should weigh -12g to hit the max payload weight? How does that work?



Feb 07, 2014 at 09:33 AM
carstenw
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p.567 #15 · p.567 #15 · Alternative Image Thread 3


Hmm. The Panasonic GM1+kit lens is 274g, as far as I can tell, which is in the same ballpark as the RX100 II. The sensor has about twice the area, so I presume a higher image quality, especially around dusk, which could be significant.


Feb 07, 2014 at 10:01 AM
denoir
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p.567 #16 · p.567 #16 · Alternative Image Thread 3


carstenw wrote:
Ah, the 1.3kg includes the chopter itself? That is too bad. Well, the RX100 is also a nice camera.

Wait, so the Phantom 2 + Gimbal + downlink = 1000g + 230g + 22g + 60g = 1312g, so the camera should weigh -12g to hit the max payload weight? How does that work?


The 230g for the gimbal is including the Gopro. So it's quad= 1000 + gimbal & camera = 230 + downlink tx with antenna = 50 g => Total of 1280g which is slightly below the max recommended takeoff weight.

Having said that, it's only a recommendation. People have done stuff such as mounting a full DSLR on them:



.. and that was on a Phantom 1 that had smaller propellers and a lower recommended take off weight.

I would not do something as extreme though for a couple of reasons:
1) It will drain your battery much quicker.
2) It will fly like crap, making it more likely that you hit things
3) It might work OK when there's no wind, but a strong gust of wind might make it crash

carstenw wrote:
Hmm. The Panasonic GM1+kit lens is 274g, as far as I can tell, which is in the same ballpark as the RX100 II. The sensor has about twice the area, so I presume a higher image quality, especially around dusk, which could be significant.


That could definitely work, but you'd still need some way of triggering the shutter. The RX100 II has Wi Fi which you can use (although not a brilliant idea in itself as the Tx uses the same frequency: http://blog.chasejarvis.com/blog/2013/12/dji-drone-fail-over-iceland-waters-chasejarvistech/ )



Feb 07, 2014 at 03:22 PM
carstenw
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p.567 #17 · p.567 #17 · Alternative Image Thread 3


The GM1 also has Wireless:

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/panasonic-lumix-dmc-gm1/7

And a remote:

http://www.digitaltoyshop.com/TM-D_Timer_remote_control_Panasonic_Lumix_DMC-GX1_t2728_6225_1

And an intervalometer, I believe. And there are some great lenses for the MFT system too, in case you don't want the kit lens.



Feb 07, 2014 at 07:41 PM
sflxn
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p.567 #18 · p.567 #18 · Alternative Image Thread 3


I was thinking a smartphone would be a good platform to use on this phantom. If wifi is conflicting with the transmitter, you could just use cellular for controlling the camera. It would also fit the weight constraint. I have seen much more expensive drones take up heavier cameras, but when I went to price them, they were selling for north of 10k. Imagine the large panoramic shots you could stitch together with a good drone setup that you can program.


Feb 07, 2014 at 11:36 PM
carstenw
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p.567 #19 · p.567 #19 · Alternative Image Thread 3


What you really want is 5 drones, flying in formation, releasing at exactly the same time so that no moving objects get in the way of a good stitch


Feb 07, 2014 at 11:44 PM
sflxn
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p.567 #20 · p.567 #20 · Alternative Image Thread 3


carstenw wrote:
What you really want is 5 drones, flying in formation, releasing at exactly the same time so that no moving objects get in the way of a good stitch


GoPro claims they can control up to something like 50 cameras at the same time with their software. We're talking Matrix style wrap around on a city level. It's going to happen.

I've been wanting to get a drone but 10k for a setup that can take up a heavier camera is a bit much for something you could easily crash, and that doesn't include camera costs. Denoir setup costs 1.8k. It's definitely a unique look and unique way to tell a story. The Phantom carry case is pretty compact and convenient for travel. Even with the GoPro limitations, I am very interested. The Phantom is a cool platform since you can navigaate it via GPS.



Feb 08, 2014 at 12:09 AM
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