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RDKirk
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p.3 #1 · $16 per hour

As a FULL-TIME photographer, I'm not guaranteed anything when I go on some of my shoots, so whatever I agree to pay my help has to be paid REGARDLESS of my sales for the day. So, I can understand playing it close to the vest when it comes to how much to pay another photographer.

That doesn't distinguish you from most other small business owners who hire temporary services.

Edited on Nov 22, 2007 at 03:28 AM

Nov 17, 2007 at 03:17 AM

griffitg
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p.3 #2 · $16 per hour

I'm not saying that it does. My point is that a business owner has the right to offer a wage that he/she feels comfortable with REGARDLESS of what anyone here things and if there is someone out there willing to take the job knowing what it pays, then it's there choice to do so.

Edited on Nov 22, 2007 at 03:28 AM

Nov 17, 2007 at 12:17 PM

j.curtis
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p.3 #3 · $16 per hour

$16 is about average from what I've seen. Most of these business hire college kids and GWC to do this kind of work. Its fun for them and they gain a ton of experience.

You also need to remember they have a couple days of "office" work to go along with these shoots and if they are a decent company have other help on the day of the shoot. They also need to carry insurance. Yes, they do make money, but probably not as much as you guys think they do.

I did this on the side for about a year. Great experiance, but will never do it again. My wife doesn't understand the "math" either.

With all that said, have you ever looked at the quality of T&I shots? More times then not, they look like they were taken by a $16/hr. photographer. Who would pay the price that it would cost to hire "Pro" photographers? The $25 package would now cost you $50+. Serious drop of sales.

Edited on Nov 22, 2007 at 03:28 AM

Nov 17, 2007 at 12:25 PM

griffitg
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p.3 #4 · $16 per hour

Thanks, J. Curtis. Finally someone that seems to understand that there's more to the money question than what someone is getting paid on the surface.

Edited on Nov 22, 2007 at 03:28 AM

Nov 17, 2007 at 03:11 PM

Brent Ward
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p.3 #5 · $16 per hour

griffitg wrote:
Thanks, J. Curtis. Finally someone that seems to understand that there's more to the money question than what someone is getting paid on the surface.

Are you also agreeing with him that most photographers who do this line of work suck?

And the clients get what they pay for?

It's a business yes, but some of us choose not to rip others off on our way to make it. EVEN if it means less money in our pocket.

$10/hr for a non shooting person seems fair.

$16/hr for someone to cover your assignment is crazy.

If you as the owner book a gig that turns out to be a bust, it's on you not them.

Do a better job next time picking a better client/gig. The people you hire shouldn't pay the price for the business owners incompetence.

This is how you keep good people working for you.

Edited on Nov 22, 2007 at 03:28 AM

Nov 17, 2007 at 05:33 PM

cogitech
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p.3 #6 · $16 per hour

MichaelKirk wrote:
....so what's the "going rate"? For an experienced photographer
Just curious in case I ever get asked

Michael

The minimum my wife and I charge $100/hr. More, depending on the type of event, whether we are both shooting, equipment/travel costs, etc.

Edited on Nov 22, 2007 at 03:28 AM

Nov 17, 2007 at 05:38 PM

griffitg
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p.3 #7 · $16 per hour

again, I think you are missing the point. an owner hasthe right to offer any rate he desires. I someone wants to take it, fine. if the market dictates a higher rate, then the owner has some decisions to make.

part of this too depends on the type of assignment. if we were talking about weddings, I may be more inclined to agree with the higher rates. however, we are talking about cookie-cutout work for teams. you take a shot of the kids then the team. it's not rocket science.

I could take a non-skilled person and teach them to do this in less than an hour.

Edited on Nov 22, 2007 at 03:28 AM

Nov 17, 2007 at 06:02 PM

Brent Ward
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p.3 #8 · $16 per hour

An owner can do anything they want, as can the photo community.

The owner can rip of beginners, the community can warn them against being ripped off.

Edited on Nov 22, 2007 at 03:28 AM

Nov 17, 2007 at 08:27 PM

griffitg
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p.3 #9 · $16 per hour

you guys can have this crazy tread. go ahead and pay you assistants whatever popular opinion dictates.

Edited on Nov 22, 2007 at 03:28 AM

Nov 17, 2007 at 10:09 PM

John Patrick
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p.3 #10 · $16 per hour

"griffitg" (Do you have a real name?), I have one question for you:

Would you take a 2 hour job for $32? Using your own equipment. Driving there in your own car (assume whatever distance you want).

As OP, I quoted the original listing. The photog wanted someone who knew posing, not "someone with a good camera." That means someone who knows what they're doing.

If you'll shoot a 2 hour gig for $32, I'll have some work for you in the Spring. Outside Chicago.

John

Edited on Nov 22, 2007 at 03:28 AM

Nov 17, 2007 at 11:27 PM

griffitg
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p.3 #11 · $16 per hour

Okay, let's play an example here to see if you people can get the point....

In the Buy/Sale area, there is a specific rule that forbids people being 'Price Police.' The reason is that a person that owns a piece of property has the right to ask whatever they want for the item. If that price is too close to retail, or just priced wrong doesn't matter. They have a right to ask what they want. If someone chooses to buy the item for that, should it matter to the others that frequent the forum that the buyer is paying more than they think they should? No!

As it relates to this situation, the business owner has the right to offer a position and rate as they see fit. I'm sure no one here knows all of the overhead this person has taken on to get the job, produce the packages, their cost at their lab, or what they want to make off the job. As such, it's not fair to have people sitting back trying to claim that a particular offer/job is unjust. Perhaps if he doesn't get any takers at $16 he will raise it to $20....who knows?

The question was raised as to my willingness to work for $32 dollars an hour and the answer is YES. After all, doesn't an intern work for less in exchange for the experience and reference? Let's start paying all of them since the companies they work for are making LOADS of money off them being there for 40 HOURS a week (sometime)?

For me, I've always admired the work of Matthew Jordan Smith. If he contacted me and invited me to come along and shoot with him, I would do so at my cost. Why? Because there's more to learning this business and getting ahead than what you leave with at the end of the day.

By the way, I give time to local schools and talk about photography for FREE. I also donate my services to a local youth group to encourage young people for FREE no matter where they have their events.

So, in the end, if you think this issue is about $32 dollars, you've already missed the point of what I'm saying. This is about principle and a business owner's ability to run his/her own business. If you have a problem with that, get your own contracts, offer better photography, pay better wages, and be happy. Otherwise, just get off the high-horse and do something positive with your time and energies.

Edited on Nov 22, 2007 at 03:28 AM

Nov 18, 2007 at 01:09 AM

mmurph
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p.3 #12 · $16 per hour

This is called the "Pro" forum for a reason. It is 99% about the business of photography.

One of the biggest tasks is helping folks understand their cost of doing business, and how to price accordingly. Many do not have a cliue about the true CODB.

The camera I use, a 1DsII, rents for $250 a day. No way I am going to bring my self *and* my camera for less than the camera gets on it's own. I might as well stay home and rent it out.

My lighting kit rents at $300 a day.

The CODB is different for others. But most drastically underestimate their own true CODB.

I don't need lectures on economics, and I certainly don't need capalist propaganda. I have an MBA. I used to have 31 employees and an annual budget of $5 million. I helped start a company that we grew to $1 billion in business and 600 employees in 5 years.

I pay assistants who haul gear a minimum of $200 a day - no picture taking. Models usually get $50 an hour, as do make-up artists. An average shoot costs about $1,000, even for my own portfolio.

That is what my world looks like. FWIW. I really don't care what others do, but you have to wonder ....

Edited on Nov 22, 2007 at 03:28 AM

Nov 18, 2007 at 01:22 AM

griffitg
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p.3 #13 · $16 per hour

There's nothing to wonder about, Murph. You make very good points and I'm not at odds with any of them. For your setup, you price accordingly and I'm sure that the clients you service aren't based on mom's spending $20 dollars for a memory mate and 5x7 print at the end of the day.

The problem I'm having here is that there's much more to doing business than what you pay a shooter for doing a basic job. Like anything else, the job and the skill level needed to perform it have to be considered. I wouldn't consider paying a wedding photographer the same as I would the person that shoots at my church directory jobs. Why? Because they require different levels of experience and skill.

With these league jobs, the leagues/schools want kick-backs and the person holding the contract isn't guaranteed anything with regard to sales. When I did teams, I would shoot two teams of the same size and get very different results. One team would come in at $600 dollars while the next team would barely break $200.

One of the issues that was raised here was the length of time the person would be working. For these shoots, I would only be there around 30 minutes to an hour.

Edited on Nov 22, 2007 at 03:28 AM

Nov 18, 2007 at 01:31 AM

mmurph
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p.3 #14 · $16 per hour

griffitg wrote:
I'm sure that the clients you service aren't based on mom's spending $20 dollars for a memory mate and 5x7 print at the end of the day.

Unfortunately even the mags are getting to that level!

I didn't mean my post quite so directly. Just that we all have our own perspective, and the high end is more common in this forum.

It is funny reading the threads on the 1Ds3, etc., - how folks latch on to one small point that pertains to how they work - needing manual focus, never shooting above ISO 100 , etc. - and can't understand any other perspective.

A bit of that here too I will admit - just trying to share why.

Best,
Michael

Edited on Nov 22, 2007 at 03:28 AM

Nov 18, 2007 at 02:35 AM

Brent Ward
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p.3 #15 · $16 per hour

I think the issue here is that the people who are arguing for the $16/hr, are more likely justifying their own business practices to make themselves feel better.

Edited on Nov 22, 2007 at 03:28 AM

Nov 18, 2007 at 06:42 PM

Barry Pehlman
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p.3 #16 · $16 per hour

griffitg said:

I am a BUSINESS PERSON that sales photography services and products.

I am NOT a PHOTOGRAPHER that's in business.

Shooting groups of people - portraits, weddings, family reunions, sports photos, corporate parties, etc. isn't the only way to make money. I am not trying to slight the skills of those who are actually good at what they do, but I question why a photographer would choose to potentially ruin a client relationship by sending an unknown to shoot alone, even for a couple of hours. Would you offer $16 per hour to anyone with a camera answering an ad to shoot a two hour architectural assignment, or a commercial shoot for a large company? Of course not because those areas of expertise are usually beyond the scope of a disposable photographer.

Edited on Nov 22, 2007 at 03:28 AM

Nov 19, 2007 at 02:36 PM

griffitg
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p.3 #17 · $16 per hour

Good point, Barry. I think there are different levels of skill required for different types of work. For some types, I think $16 an hour is the correct wage. For others, I think the rate should be many times more.

Edited on Nov 22, 2007 at 03:28 AM

Nov 19, 2007 at 03:55 PM

The Image
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p.3 #18 · $16 per hour

I Charge $100.00 per hour,

Edited on Nov 22, 2007 at 03:28 AM

Nov 21, 2007 at 04:23 PM

hassy501
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p.3 #19 · $16 per hour

I wouldnt even turn on my camera for that amount.........

Nov 22, 2007 at 03:28 AM


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