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John Patrick
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p.1 #1 · $16 per hour

Today, Nov 11, this ad was posted on a "free ad" site (I'm sure you can guess which site):

looking for a sports photographer to help cover swim team and posed photos for this Tuesday 11-13-07 evening from 5:30-7:30
must have knowledge in posed and team photos.
$16.00 per hour

So, you can earn $32 shooting a swim team's T&I. After you drive there. Unpaid. What a deal.

The kicker is: This ad was posted by a photographer in my area; apparently he's looking for someone to do this shoot he was booked for.

He went on:

Also am looking to hire a photographer for some action photos for wrestling,hockey and basketball coming this fall and winter. Please send me an e-mail along with some work you have done.

I can only assume that this additional work is at the same, top-notch rate.

I feel sorry for the parents who signed up to have T&I taken of their children, if they get a $16/hour photographer taking them.

John

Edited on Nov 22, 2007 at 03:28 AM

Nov 12, 2007 at 12:56 AM

dmwierz
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p.1 #2 · $16 per hour

John,

$16/hour is not a bad rate for hiring a student to shoot under-instruction, or a booth worker. However, as you correctly surmised, offering this rate for a solo gig is ludicrous.

Edited on Nov 22, 2007 at 03:28 AM

Nov 12, 2007 at 01:55 AM

MichaelKirk
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p.1 #3 · $16 per hour

....so what's the "going rate"? For an experienced photographer
Just curious in case I ever get asked

Michael

Edited on Nov 22, 2007 at 03:28 AM

Nov 12, 2007 at 02:12 AM

Mustang5ohhh
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p.1 #4 · $16 per hour

$32 ... sounds like a great gig ... worst part is, that position will be filled by someone.

Edited on Nov 22, 2007 at 03:28 AM

Nov 12, 2007 at 02:13 AM

EA6B
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p.1 #5 · $16 per hour

Sounds like a job for...GWC Man!

Edited on Nov 22, 2007 at 03:28 AM

Nov 12, 2007 at 02:35 AM

Mike Mahoney
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p.1 #6 · $16 per hour

MichaelKirk wrote:
....so what's the "going rate"? For an experienced photographer
Just curious in case I ever get asked

Michael

I recall a lengthly sports forum thread last year where $10 per hour was discussed as being a common rate for a sports shooter, and that's with your own equipment.
Mike

PS edit to add that I think that's an outrageously low rate.

Edited on Nov 22, 2007 at 03:28 AM

Nov 12, 2007 at 02:39 AM

texasruss
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p.1 #7 · $16 per hour

That's not a bad rate from my neck of the woods. Not sure what T&I brings, but sports freelancing just brings $8 -$20 an hour.

Edited on Nov 22, 2007 at 03:28 AM

Nov 12, 2007 at 03:01 AM

RDKirk
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p.1 #8 · $16 per hour

texasruss wrote:
That's not a bad rate from my neck of the woods. Not sure what T&I brings, but sports freelancing just brings $8 -$20 an hour.

That does cut down on the hobby expenses.

Edited on Nov 22, 2007 at 03:28 AM

Nov 12, 2007 at 03:20 AM

John Patrick
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p.1 #9 · $16 per hour

But T&I are basically sales that are "in the bag." Most T&I shoots are jobs where you've already been paid (or are being paid--collecting right there). I can see actions shooting on spec being low-ish ($20-30/hr) since you don't know if it's going to sell. But T&I, that's gravy.

John

Edited on Nov 22, 2007 at 03:28 AM

Nov 12, 2007 at 04:12 AM

Nathan Whitchu
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p.1 #10 · $16 per hour

$16 would also be a ok rate where I'm from... but not for a mere two hours of work. Several yearbook studios in the area start people out a little bit lower then that, but you're also talking about full time work. Plenty of people get their feet wet doing this kind of work and either move on to their own work, or figure out that they're not cut out for it. I started out this way until I took advantage of some opportunities and broke out on my own, I still do a tiny bit of work for a studio in the summer. Of course around here it's normal for travel time and mileage to be paid on top of shooting time (Not always at a good rate, but at least you're not traveling for free). Lets face it, this isn't work for someone who's already going out and drumming up their own business. This guy double booked himself, and want to get out of it cheap. He'll find someone to shoot for him and might even keep the contract when they screw it up.

Edited on Nov 22, 2007 at 03:28 AM

Nov 12, 2007 at 04:44 AM

cavis
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p.1 #11 · $16 per hour

If 100 kids come through on T&I at $20 each, minus about $5 each for printing, that's $1,500. And he wants to pay $32 for a second photographer? Sure sounds like a bargain... for him!

Edited on Nov 22, 2007 at 03:28 AM

Nov 12, 2007 at 05:46 AM

texasruss
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p.1 #12 · $16 per hour

Yea, T&I seems to be one of the better paying gigs around for locals. The $8-$20/hour I was quoting was for providing content to newspapers, ie a dispatched assisgnment and not shooting spec.

I know of one guy that did $13,000 grand shooting 4 teams T&I in one day. That $32 is beyond insane.

Edited on Nov 22, 2007 at 03:28 AM

Nov 12, 2007 at 05:52 AM

cavis
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p.1 #13 · $16 per hour

$13,000

Holy cow, I'm in the wrong market.

Edited on Nov 22, 2007 at 03:28 AM

Nov 12, 2007 at 06:01 PM

John Patrick
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p.1 #14 · $16 per hour

Cavis, I shoot action for a local soccer league. There are over 200 teams in this league, average 10-12 players per team (depending on age).

For T&I: 2000 players * $25 average package... well, you do the math.

Yes, I'd love that contract. No, I can't do it right now.

John

Edited by John Patrick on Nov 12, 2007 at 04:04 PM GMT (Reason: Clarification)

Edited on Nov 22, 2007 at 03:28 AM

Nov 12, 2007 at 07:18 PM

mlavander
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p.1 #15 · $16 per hour

Gee, I would love to quit my nice automotive engineering job...$16? hehe

Edited on Nov 22, 2007 at 03:28 AM

Nov 12, 2007 at 09:30 PM

Ivo Heshusius
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p.1 #16 · $16 per hour

For $16/hour I'll stay in my bed!

Edited on Nov 22, 2007 at 03:28 AM

Nov 13, 2007 at 10:31 AM

RDKirk
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p.1 #17 · $16 per hour

For those of you saying $16 an hour is acceptable, are you thinking as an employee who gets additional benefits or as a self-employed small businessman?

As a self-employed businessman, $16 an hour means the kids eat tomato soup seven days a week.

Edited on Nov 22, 2007 at 03:28 AM

Nov 14, 2007 at 01:59 AM

griffitg
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p.1 #18 · $16 per hour

I'm not sure what the poster is complaining about. For someone, it will be a nice opportunity to do some work while the photographer is paid for being the Owner/Leader/Manager. What's wrong with that rate? I really don't get the problem here.

Consider this.....does a million dollar company pay it's entry-level employees a million dollars, or even a rate close to that of a manager?

Edited on Nov 22, 2007 at 03:28 AM

Nov 14, 2007 at 02:21 AM

Nathan Whitchu
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p.1 #19 · $16 per hour

RDKirk wrote:
For those of you saying $16 an hour is acceptable, are you thinking as an employee who gets additional benefits or as a self-employed small businessman?

As a self-employed businessman, $16 an hour means the kids eat tomato soup seven days a week.

When I was working full time for a studio doing exactly this type of work, $16 an hour was an acceptable rate. I was working a solid 40 hours a week, getting paid for travel time and an additional rate for millage, got paid vacation and 401k matching, and was supplied a good portion of the equipment I needed to do the job. I didn't get rich, but I was paying my bills.

As a self employed photographer I wouldn't even answer an E-Mail offering me $32 to do that job.

Edited on Nov 22, 2007 at 03:28 AM

Nov 14, 2007 at 02:48 AM

John Patrick
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p.1 #20 · $16 per hour

griffitg, $16 may be an acceptable rate if the work was more than 2 hours and included travel compensation. But for someone to drive to the location (let's assume 20 miles one way.... this is the Chicago area, and you can rarely go directly there), at $0.45 per mile (IRS mileage), that's $18 in travel costs. $32 - $18 = $14 for 2 hours of work.

Now, if this was an 8-hour gig, or was a series of gigs, things get better, but not much.

John

Edited on Nov 22, 2007 at 03:28 AM

Nov 14, 2007 at 03:22 AM

griffitg
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p.1 #21 · $16 per hour

What would you pay if this was the person's first gig with you? For me, it would be a low-pay job until I know how they work out. Even then, it's hard to judge how much something is worth.

I've had people approach me and ask if they could just work for me for free just so they could get some experience.

Edited on Nov 22, 2007 at 03:28 AM

Nov 14, 2007 at 04:41 AM

John Patrick
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p.1 #22 · $16 per hour

I don't think I'd bother to hire someone new for just 2 hours. Sure, if it was an assistant or shooter I'd used before, but as for pay.... I wouldn't pay a shooter any less than $30/hr, maybe more if I'd used them and knew their quality was top-notch.

My problem (and others here) isn't with the $16/hr, it's the 2 hours the job is.

John

Edited on Nov 22, 2007 at 03:28 AM

Nov 14, 2007 at 04:55 AM

shatterkiss
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p.1 #23 · $16 per hour

griffitg wrote:
I've had people approach me and ask if they could just work for me for free just so they could get some experience.

It's one thing to shlep my cases and hold a light stand for me for minimal pay, but it's entirely another to shoot images that will be sold (at a markup, undoubtedly) using your own equipment for minimal pay. I don't make money off a green assistant, I gain convenience (if that - a clueless assistant is more hindrance than help). A second shooter is a revenue-generator, especially in this situation. I can't even rent a D200 for $16/hour, more or less.

I expect potential clients to try to get work done at obscenely low rates on a regular basis, but it's a little upsetting to see photographers taking advantage of less-established peers.

Edited on Nov 22, 2007 at 03:28 AM

Nov 14, 2007 at 05:02 AM

cavis
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p.1 #24 · $16 per hour

griffitg wrote:
I'm not sure what the poster is complaining about.

The photographer is welcome to pay whatever it is that he wants to pay for a second shooter, but the primary thing that comes to my mind is that he is going to get what he pays for. Judging by the vast amount of people that have posted here, very few of us would shoot for $16/hr without expenses. If he were to offer some other amount (I'll throw out $50/hr just as an off-the-cuff figure), then more photographers would be willing to do the job, including other established professional photographers. Nothing in the job description limited the work to only amateur photographers or starving professionals, right? How many here would drive across town and give 2 free hours to make $100 cash? I would, but then again, I'm one of those starving professionals (part time)

Edited on Nov 22, 2007 at 03:28 AM

Nov 14, 2007 at 03:11 PM

FSJ_Guy
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p.1 #25 · $16 per hour

John Patrick wrote:
My problem (and others here) isn't with the $16/hr, it's the 2 hours the job is.

John

Exactly. 32 bucks isn't even a nice dinner in most places. Hardly worth it, IMHO. Now, $16/hr for 40 hours is entirely different. I can see a lot of college students willing to do that.

Edited on Nov 22, 2007 at 03:28 AM

Nov 14, 2007 at 05:34 PM


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