aushalk wrote:
Hi All,
Question on the same topic.
Do you guys out there use AV/ TV or manual exposure when photographing birds (both on flight and still)
thanks
Ausha
AV and manual for me. In particular I try to use manual when I anticiipate shooting BIF because of changing backgrounds. But for stills I quite often use AV.
I'm in line with Gene on the exposure control. I try to use manual as much as possible. I'll use AV if the light itself is changing fairly quickly (i.e. not the backgrounds) due to moving clouds. Other than that, pretty much manual, using evaluative to meter on something as close to an 18% "grey" level as I can find. After that, I'm pretty much relying on the histogram to get it spot on.
Be patient. There are many of us who have shot for years and are frustrated. That's normal. If it wasn't, would it be worth it? On a good day (at least for me) I am thrilled if I have a handful of keepers after shooting several hundred shots. Sometimes its only one or two. For birds and that lens you might buy a 1.4X TC. Try to get the "pro" version of Kenko or Tamron or get the Canon if you can. Tamron has (or had) one for just under $200 that was good. That will give you considerable more reach. Stay away form the 2X as you will loose AF with it on that Cam. and trying to manually focus with that camera could be a bear unless you have awesome eyesight. This may sound stupid but when you see something you want to get an image of try to see it in the future of that moment and plan to capture that. Plan for their behavioral response because of you or some other stimuli. It can happen and has getting the shot that is. On the other hand always be ready for the unexpected. Keep on plugging. Read the autobiography of Eric Hosking, An Eye for a Bird. Just an awesome book.
Set up a feeder near where you can either sit in your car or conceal yourself close enough to let that 200 work for you. Art's Bulletins have a huge amount of info. Even a 1.4 Kenko extender would give you some more reach.
The Willie Wagtail is a fantastic shot! I'd be more than happy with that one. To get that great shot, you have to make that all elements are coming together; your shutter speed, the aperture, your ISO setting and of course composing the shot well with the sun behind you or at least to the side.
My success ratio is quite low really. It used to frustrate me, but that makes me appreciate the winners even more. The thing about bird photography is that many times you don't get a second chance. I play with my exposure values, the f-stop, shutter speed trying to find that right combination but many times I will try and by the time I change the settings the subject has flown away. It's the nature of the beast. I am still learning and I come to the forums like this to learn. I have only been doing this about a little more than a year now. I have seen some improvement but I need to learn lots more.
Plenty of great advice so far. I had the pleasure of taking a bird workshop with Artie Morris (birdsasart.com) and came away with stunners. Besides using a longer lens, constant attention to the background, placing the sun behind you, getting down to eye level, and working in PS, there is plenty for me to learn and practice.
If you want to see incredible bird photography, with explanations along these and a zillion other dimensions, buy his e-book (CD), The Art of Bird Photography II. Enough there to enjoy, study, return to and learn from for years. I think there are about 800 color images. Also detail about using different equipment. You can get in thru his birdsasart.com web-site.
Did anyone mention that you need to practice, practice, practice if you want to get good? Best advice I have, except to work with the light rather than against it.
Noisy Miners aren't called noisy for nothing - I've got a few of them hanging around in the trees outside my window and they just keep calling out constantly all day long. Very irritating. Nice photo though.
If you're serious about doing bird photography then you'll have to spring for a long prime telephoto lens, as others have said. There's no two ways about it. Start saving for that Canon 400 5.6L.
Mr Zoom wrote:
Did anyone mention that you need to practice, practice, practice if you want to get good? Best advice I have, except to work with the light rather than against it.
Ken
I was on a panel at a conference once with the then president of Kodak (in the days film still mattered ). He pointed to the pro photographer who was taking pictures of the event and asked the audience, “Do you know the main difference between the pro and armature photographer? The Pro takes a lot more pictures!” How true.
Thank heavens it is cost nothing to take more pictures with digital. Quantity won’t make up for skill. But will let you try more things until you learn……
I agree with what everyone else has said. I'm relatively new to birds so share your frustration. You definitely want to get a longer lense (400/5.6.) 200mm is just not giving you enough focal length for birdies. And yes, you want to do some postprocessing to get things looking better. The ultimate is to do everything in RAW and use the full Photoshop application. A quicker and easier alternative for getting your feet wet and not being overwhelmed would be to shoot JPEGs and tinker with them in Photoshop Elements. You’ll see immediately what everyone is saying about the benefits of photo editing. Start by playing around with the “automatic” adjustments. Learn. Play with the “sliders” for individual adjustments and then work into more fine grained things like masks, layers, etc. It definitely helps.
Like everyone says, getting the light right helps immensely. I’d steer away from shots like #3 because it’s difficult to get good shots that are backlit. You need the sun at your back. And find places where birds are more likely to tolerate humans (and let you get close enough; if you're not able to fill up enough of the frame no amount of editing will help very much--the sensor just isn't capturing enough detail for a good shot if your focus is the bird itself.) Keep at it and you’ll improve a lot.
So far the best two bits of advice I have seen are
1) Remember the keeper rate even for the best photographers is very low. As others have said sometimes we shoot hundreds of frames in a day and may only have a couple of keepers.
2) Shoot RAW. What ever mode ( I like M, but this is personal) you shoot in if you shoot RAW you have two or more stops of leeway before getting in to cs.
The rest is sorta developing your own style. Look at the current Jody thread. Who would have ever thought you could make a name for yourself doing that. But his images are simply eye catching.
One other thing I would add is try and find a local park where you can get close to the pigeons and shoot them. This is helpful for BIF for sure. But you also can get a feel for bird behavior. Once you get a feel for how birds act (and they dont all act the same) it is much easier to get good images.
Best advice I have, except to work with the light rather than against it.