Bird Photography Frustration

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Dawei Ye
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p.1 #1 · Bird Photography Frustration

I really enjoy Bird Photography but whatever comes out just is atrocious compared to other shots shown on these forums and galleries.

I've only been shooting for about 1 month, but there has been little improvement. I've included some of my better shots and was wondering if I am doing anything wrong.

Colours that are dull are the main issue I think, Bokeh is average at best, the photos just don't have that...pop, that wow factor. They don't look very sharp either, I like that plastic-ish/glazed sharp look but I can't seem to get it

These are out of camera JPEGs only cropped around 50% of the photo to make the birds fill the frame a more, I don't know how to use Photoshop (Is that the issue?) using 400D with 70-200mm f/4L IS:

This image is copyrighted by the owner

Willie Wagtail

This image is copyrighted by the owner

Noisy Miner

This image is copyrighted by the owner

Spotted Turtle Dove

Edited on Nov 10, 2007 at 08:51 AM

Nov 08, 2007 at 01:39 AM

amirm
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p.1 #2 · Bird Photography Frustration

Don't feel bad. That is how I was when I first started. Then I learned a few lessons:

1. Make sure the background is clean/blurred. If it looks busy in the viewfinder, it will look worse on the computer/printer.

2. F4 at 200mm simply is not enough to create good backgrounds required in #1. Suggest investing in a 400mm lens.

3. Read how the experts do it: www.birdsasart.com (Arthur Morris) is a great start. Check out his newsletters and read through as many as you can. There for example, you see his technique of putting the sun behind you for more even frontal lighting. And having the bird head parallel or toward you (as opposed to away).

4. Take one wildlife photography workshop. These are expensive but a single one is liable to boost your skills a ton.

5. Needless to say, practice, practice, practice.

6. Go where the rest of us go to get pictures. Places where the birds hang out and are closer to you and tamer. In US, that is South Florida and places like that.

By the way, you are not doing too bad given the lens you have to work with.

And photoshop doesn't help. Yes, it is a good tool to make a good image better. But it will not create a great image by itself.

Good luck.

Edited on Nov 10, 2007 at 08:51 AM

Nov 08, 2007 at 02:03 AM

normsmith
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p.1 #3 · Bird Photography Frustration

Practically all digital images need a little post processing to sharpen them and often to increase the color saturation. If you don't mind I'll upload your Noisy Minor image on which I applied a small amount of unsharp masking and increased the color saturation a bit. It's not a tremendous improvement but it does come out a little better, I think. The Miner isn't the most colorful bird you have down under so the difference is subtle. You don't need a full blown Photoshop program--Photoshop Elements can do anything you need to improve on the straight from the camera images.

As mentioned you need a longer lens. The 400ml f:5.6 L Canon lens is very good. Pay attention to lighting as mentioned. The dove is badly over exposed and the lighting is not optimum. You aren't close enough to the wagtail. Even if you don't get a longer lens you should invest in a good tripod and use it.

Getting close or a bigger image is easier if you set up some feeders or water features in a natural surrounding. Vegetation or natural twigs for the birds to perch on before or after feeding or watering.

Let me know if you want to see the minor adjustments I made to your NoisyMiner.

Norm S

The previous response gave good suggestions, especially about reading the Art Morris newsletters.

Edited on Nov 10, 2007 at 08:51 AM

Nov 08, 2007 at 03:05 AM

Duncan Gibson
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p.1 #4 · Bird Photography Frustration

The problem with number one is that it is a dull looking bird on a dull looking background.

Number two is excellent. The feathers are rendered razor sharp, the entire subject is in focus, and the bokeh is nice and creamy.

Most of the subject in number 3 is properly exposed (the edges of the bird are a bit burnt), but the background bokey is too bright and distracts.

If you have only been doing this a month, I look forward to what you post in a few months time. If you apply your obviously high standards to PP (post processing??), I am sure you will continue to get better and better results.

Edited on Nov 10, 2007 at 08:51 AM

Nov 08, 2007 at 03:11 AM

Johnny Bravo
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p.1 #5 · Bird Photography Frustration

Yep, that second shot is a stunner-very nice.

Just keep at it, and Arthur Morris has my vote as an excellent resource too. His learning tools (the pdfs and CD's he sells) are THE best value for the dollar in learning this hobby.

Edited on Nov 10, 2007 at 08:51 AM

Nov 08, 2007 at 03:23 AM

Shasoc
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p.1 #6 · Bird Photography Frustration

You got some excellent advices. Your shots are actually nice. To shoot birds on the ground you have to get on your belly in order to create a lower angle that will allow you to separate the subject from the bg wich will create some "pop". The second shot is excellent, sharp, clean, and well exposed. Doesn't need any PP. In the last shot the bg is to bright, and the subject shows some blown-up highlights.
You also need to start learning some basic editing thecnics to give some more life to your shots.
I understand your frustration: we all have gone through that stage. The very simple thing to do is take more pictures.

Socrate

Edited on Nov 10, 2007 at 08:51 AM

Nov 08, 2007 at 04:55 AM

Dawei Ye
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p.1 #7 · Bird Photography Frustration

Awesome, thanks heaps for the feedback! I'll keep working on it and will check out the links

Amir: Thanks heaps for the link and advice! I'll check it out the link now
Norm: Thanks! yeah I'd love to see the edited version, please!
Duncan: Thanks for the evaluation! Yeah now that I look at it the first pic is quite bland

Johnny Bravo: Thanks for the positive comment! I'll check out the resources
Socrate: Thanks for the advice! yeah I'm much more encouraged now to practice and learn more

Edited on Nov 10, 2007 at 08:51 AM

Nov 08, 2007 at 05:02 AM

Jude Perera
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p.1 #8 · Bird Photography Frustration

#2 is very well captured. Adjust colour saturation 2 stops in camera settings to minimize PP saturation adjustment. Also concentrate on following.

1. Try to achieve 100% focus in main subject.
2. Always try to achieve correct exposure
3. Crop to obtain a better framing
4. Tone down the BG, adjust colour saturation and sharpen a little bit using unsharp mask.

I have done some PP adjustments for your 3rd image. Some may call this too much processing. What I am trying to point out is what you could do in PP. Hope this helps.

Jude

Edited on Nov 10, 2007 at 08:51 AM

Nov 08, 2007 at 05:49 AM

Shasoc
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p.1 #9 · Bird Photography Frustration

Shasoc wrote:
You got some excellent advices. Your shots are actually nice. To shoot birds on the ground you have to get on your belly in order to create a lower angle that will allow you to separate the subject from the bg wich will create some "pop". The second shot is excellent, sharp, clean, and well exposed. Doesn't need any PP. In the last shot the bg is to bright, and the subject shows some blown-up highlights.
You also need to start learning some basic editing thecnics to give some more life to your shots.
I understand your frustration: we all have gone through that stage. The very simple thing to do is take more pictures.

Socrate

This is a simple example of how some editing can help your images.

Edited on Nov 10, 2007 at 08:51 AM

Nov 08, 2007 at 05:59 AM

Alistair Watson
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p.1 #10 · Bird Photography Frustration

Dawei, don't be so hard on yourself! I think your 2nd shot is brilliant, it has colour, depth and interest!

The others have given you some great advice and I will try not to repeat what they said, but the important things for nature photography are having the right focal length for the job, this avoids heavy cropping and retains all the image quality, perspective, if you are shooting a bird at ground level, get down as low as you can, visually this make the picture more interesting and usually gives a better background, keep your eye on the sun. The sun can give you wonderful lighting, create a catchlight and illuminate all or parts of your subject, it can also beach out colour and make an image totally flat.

Personally I prefer to capture images in RAW format, with a RAW file I can make a good image even better. I would experiment with RAW instead of JPEG for one shoot and see if you are happier with the results. I find most of my images benefit from a little work in Photoshop, this is always sharpening and from time to time changing the colour saturation etc.,

Lastly to repeat what everyone has said, practice practice practice!

Edited on Nov 10, 2007 at 08:51 AM

Nov 08, 2007 at 10:37 AM

Andrew J
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p.1 #11 · Bird Photography Frustration

400 5.6L

Edited on Nov 10, 2007 at 08:51 AM

Nov 08, 2007 at 11:24 AM

wiens51
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p.1 #12 · Bird Photography Frustration

It is all about light and background. early morning and late evening light are by far the best - especially during the summer when the sun come nearly straight overhead and will cast too many harsh shadows or create exposure problems - like it did in your last shot.

keep trying - if you find things in images that you do not like, figure out what it is and try to correct it next time.

Gerald

Edited on Nov 10, 2007 at 08:51 AM

Nov 08, 2007 at 11:53 AM

GeneO
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p.1 #13 · Bird Photography Frustration

HI,

With such a dull background, you needed to get closer to the bird on the first shoot.

The second shot is very good, a tad cluttered but nice subject.

The third is a klighting problem,

The best advice I can give is if you don't have a good background, get close or use a longer focal length and try to capture some unique behavior or pose.

The second bit of advice is to work on getting good light,. That is THE key. Morning or late afternoon, sun mostly to the back.

The third is be patient, you are on your way there

Cheers
Gene

Edited on Nov 10, 2007 at 08:51 AM

Nov 08, 2007 at 02:01 PM

normsmith
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p.1 #14 · Bird Photography Frustration

This is best viewed at 100%. The difference isn't too obvious but a little bit goes a long ways. You don't want to over saturate or sharpen.

Norm S.

Edited on Nov 10, 2007 at 08:51 AM

Nov 08, 2007 at 02:37 PM

Karl Witt
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p.1 #15 · Bird Photography Frustration

Hi Dawei
As you can see there are some great things you can do with PP. I have the 400d/Xti also and the Canon software that came with it can be very easily used to tweak your pictures. You might also set up your camera to take L jpg and Raw images thus giving you more control later in PP with Raw images.
As an affordable alternative to the 400mm you can pick up a 1.4x teleconvertor to get you out to 400mm. The 400mm 5.6L is a super fast focusing lens that many use for birding.
You are off to a great start, the help you get here will accelerate your learning curve. Number 2 photo is excellent. Work hard to get as much subject in the viewfinder as you can, your shots taken with a great deal of backlighting or background will benefit if you overexpose by 2/3'rds to 1 full stop. Just don't forget to change back if you are working the tight shots like #2.
Great Effort...........they will keep getting easier as you shoot and learn!

Karl

Edited on Nov 10, 2007 at 08:51 AM

Nov 08, 2007 at 02:46 PM

aushalk
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p.1 #16 · Bird Photography Frustration

Hi All,
Question on the same topic.
Do you guys out there use AV/ TV or manual exposure when photographing birds (both on flight and still)
thanks

Ausha

Edited on Nov 10, 2007 at 08:51 AM

Nov 08, 2007 at 03:56 PM

lbuscher
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p.1 #17 · Bird Photography Frustration

I really like this on and all it needs is to be straightened out and some saturation. I would keep the fence post top as the cracked wood I feel adds a nice environment to the overall photo.
Lou

Edited on Nov 10, 2007 at 08:51 AM

Nov 08, 2007 at 04:12 PM

amirm
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p.1 #18 · Bird Photography Frustration

aushalk wrote:
Hi All,
Question on the same topic.
Do you guys out there use AV/ TV or manual exposure when photographing birds (both on flight and still)
thanks

Ausha
By far, AV is the most commonly used mode. TV is rarely used except for special occasions where for example, you want to blur the wings with slow shutter speed.

But AV mode can get fooled easily with changing background and lighting as you pan to track a bird. In these situations, manual exposure can be handy although it is difficult to master. You should turn on the histogram, and shoot in the brightest place and make sure the graph doesn't hit the righthand side (i.e. you have "clipped"). Also, turn on highlight warning. This will cause the LCD to blink the pixels which have clipped. You must make sure nothing blinks as once you have clipped a pixel, there is nothing you can do to rescue it. However, if you underexpose, within reason, you can still fix it in Photoshop.

The other thing to learn to use is the exposure compensation. That is the big wheel on the back. Shoot an image and if you are clipping, simply rotate the wheel (after pushing the shutter button half way), toward the negative side (i.e. reduction of exposure). Do this until you stop clipping. This way, you are still in "automatic" mode should the situation change and still have a shot at decent exposure. With manual mode, if you don't change the settings manually, you may completely blow the exposure.

In summary, AV means exposure is correct most of the time. Manual mode means exposure is correct all the time if you manually adjust it all the time. TV mode is rarely used for wildlife work (or for that matter, most other kind of shooting).

Edited on Nov 10, 2007 at 08:51 AM

Nov 08, 2007 at 05:05 PM

Alistair Watson
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p.1 #19 · Bird Photography Frustration

aushalk wrote:
Hi All,
Question on the same topic.
Do you guys out there use AV/ TV or manual exposure when photographing birds (both on flight and still)
thanks

Ausha

Av for flight shots adding EC as necessary. A mixture of Av or Manual for still since I have time to work.....

Edited on Nov 10, 2007 at 08:51 AM

Nov 08, 2007 at 05:44 PM

k7xd
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p.1 #20 · Bird Photography Frustration

aushalk wrote:
Hi All,
Question on the same topic.
Do you guys out there use AV/ TV or manual exposure when photographing birds (both on flight and still)
thanks

Ausha

I shoot manual 90% of the time no matter what the subject is.
The exceptions being quick "grab" shots.

Edited on Nov 10, 2007 at 08:51 AM

Nov 08, 2007 at 10:12 PM

GeneO
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p.1 #21 · Bird Photography Frustration

aushalk wrote:
Hi All,
Question on the same topic.
Do you guys out there use AV/ TV or manual exposure when photographing birds (both on flight and still)
thanks

Ausha

AV and manual for me. In particular I try to use manual when I anticiipate shooting BIF because of changing backgrounds. But for stills I quite often use AV.

Never TV.

Gene

Edited on Nov 10, 2007 at 08:51 AM

Nov 09, 2007 at 12:37 AM

Edward Rotberg
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p.1 #22 · Bird Photography Frustration

I'm in line with Gene on the exposure control. I try to use manual as much as possible. I'll use AV if the light itself is changing fairly quickly (i.e. not the backgrounds) due to moving clouds. Other than that, pretty much manual, using evaluative to meter on something as close to an 18% "grey" level as I can find. After that, I'm pretty much relying on the histogram to get it spot on.

Edited on Nov 10, 2007 at 08:51 AM

Nov 09, 2007 at 01:21 AM

lenyoso
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p.1 #23 · Bird Photography Frustration

Be patient. There are many of us who have shot for years and are frustrated. That's normal. If it wasn't, would it be worth it? On a good day (at least for me) I am thrilled if I have a handful of keepers after shooting several hundred shots. Sometimes its only one or two. For birds and that lens you might buy a 1.4X TC. Try to get the "pro" version of Kenko or Tamron or get the Canon if you can. Tamron has (or had) one for just under $200 that was good. That will give you considerable more reach. Stay away form the 2X as you will loose AF with it on that Cam. and trying to manually focus with that camera could be a bear unless you have awesome eyesight. This may sound stupid but when you see something you want to get an image of try to see it in the future of that moment and plan to capture that. Plan for their behavioral response because of you or some other stimuli. It can happen and has getting the shot that is. On the other hand always be ready for the unexpected. Keep on plugging. Read the autobiography of Eric Hosking, An Eye for a Bird. Just an awesome book.

Edited on Nov 10, 2007 at 08:51 AM

Nov 09, 2007 at 01:56 AM

Lmainer
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p.1 #24 · Bird Photography Frustration

Set up a feeder near where you can either sit in your car or conceal yourself close enough to let that 200 work for you. Art's Bulletins have a huge amount of info. Even a 1.4 Kenko extender would give you some more reach.

Edited on Nov 10, 2007 at 08:51 AM

Nov 09, 2007 at 02:07 AM

Stephen P
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p.1 #25 · Bird Photography Frustration

The Willie Wagtail is a fantastic shot! I'd be more than happy with that one. To get that great shot, you have to make that all elements are coming together; your shutter speed, the aperture, your ISO setting and of course composing the shot well with the sun behind you or at least to the side.

My success ratio is quite low really. It used to frustrate me, but that makes me appreciate the winners even more. The thing about bird photography is that many times you don't get a second chance. I play with my exposure values, the f-stop, shutter speed trying to find that right combination but many times I will try and by the time I change the settings the subject has flown away. It's the nature of the beast. I am still learning and I come to the forums like this to learn. I have only been doing this about a little more than a year now. I have seen some improvement but I need to learn lots more.

Edited on Nov 10, 2007 at 08:51 AM

Nov 09, 2007 at 02:38 AM


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