Client insists on wire transfer

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mdude85
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p.2 #1 · Client insists on wire transfer

Three thousand invoices and you have never heard of Paypal? Every customer always pays with a check? This seems a little old-fashioned. Checks are insecure because they have the bank account number written right on them. They also provide little or no security if they get lost in the mail (especially from Europe) and you have no insurance against a bounce. I think a wire transfer is OK, but perhaps you should look into an escrow.

Edited on Nov 16, 2007 at 04:19 PM

Nov 05, 2007 at 10:34 PM

Mike Mahoney
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p.2 #2 · Client insists on wire transfer

I checked with my Canadian bank and there is no charge to receive the transfer and they set me up the the SWIFT code, institution & transit numbers which I forwarded to the client. So I should be good to go.

Now that I know it's a common payment method overseas I'm not as concerned.

Thanks again for the replies & information.
Mike

Edited on Nov 16, 2007 at 04:19 PM

Nov 05, 2007 at 10:35 PM

Mike Mahoney
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p.2 #3 · Client insists on wire transfer

mdude85 wrote:
Three thousand invoices and you have never heard of Paypal? Every customer always pays with a check? This seems a little old-fashioned.

I live on planet earth so yes I've heard of PayPal

but have never had a commercial client pay with anything other than a cheque. Ever. And I would expect that is the experience of the majority of North American businesses. And I agree it is old-fashioned.

I try to do as much of my own banking payments as possible electronically .. prefering to use a bank EFT or online bill payment.

I personally write very few cheques myself, but do pay all my commercial invoices with a cheque.
Mike

Edited on Nov 16, 2007 at 04:19 PM

Nov 05, 2007 at 10:43 PM

Anon Moss
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p.2 #4 · Client insists on wire transfer

I have 3 checking accounts.One is strictly for sending and receiving wire transfers. I think that it is the safest way to transfer $$ and with minimal costs.
The Federal E system that wires travel over here in the states is very secure. The funds go from point A to B passing through nodules that are like one way trap doors. They can go one way but not backwards (can't be recalled - unless a bank makes a mistake or there is fraud involved), and they don't 'bounce'. Once the funds are in your account - they are there - period. As an additional precaution, you can then quickly move those funds to another account or withdraw them...leaving an empty account. So even if someone has your banks routing # and your personal account # and want to attempt something fraudulent, there's nothing to remove.
As another post mentioned, whenever you hand or send anyone a check it has all your account info on it as well, but nobody seems to worry about that.
Checks can be lost, stolen, and forged. As can Money Orders, Postal money orders, and Cashiers Checks. People have a false sense of security with these.
Paypal charges high fees and soon so will Google checkout. Why pay them?
Bank wires are GREAT! I wish more FMers would get used to using them.
My bank doesn't charge me for outgoing wires and they have a nominal $12 fee for incoming wires - very fair IMHO.
Paypal is fine for small purchases..but on big ones the fees are silly. And plenty of people have problems with Paypal. Having personal control and doing it yourself with bank wires is the teets.
Try it...you'll like it!
Most banks will allow you to open additional checking or savings accounts for free...so it's very easy to get set up.
The Nigerian scam artists have really given bank wires a bad and undeserving name recently - and that's what comes to mind for a lot of people.
In the US, all the info you need to send someone $$ is their banks "routing" number and the individuals "account" number. To send outside of the US, the routing number is called a SWIFT number.
Hope this helps.
Cheers,
Scott

Edited on Nov 16, 2007 at 04:19 PM

Nov 06, 2007 at 01:52 AM

AJ Nadershahi
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p.2 #5 · Client insists on wire transfer

One of my banks has gone stupid with wire transfer fees.

Domestic outgoing is $30, incoming is $10.

International outgoing is $45, and incoming is $15.

Guess I won't be using their services...

Edited on Nov 16, 2007 at 04:19 PM

Nov 06, 2007 at 02:12 AM

mdude85
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p.2 #6 · Client insists on wire transfer

Anon Moss wrote:
Paypal charges high fees and soon so will Google checkout. Why pay them?
Bank wires are GREAT! I wish more FMers would get used to using them.
My bank doesn't charge me for outgoing wires and they have a nominal $12 fee for incoming wires - very fair IMHO.
Paypal is fine for small purchases..but on big ones the fees are silly.

At a 3% incoming rate for payment on Paypal, a $12 fee would be applied to a transfer of $400. I suppose it depends on how much you use Paypal but I consider $400 to be a pretty large transfer. So in that respect I don't consider the fees to be *that* silly compared to an incoming wire fee. Is this $12 fee on all incoming wires regardless of amount? Imagine paying a $12 fee on a $12 wire!!

Edited on Nov 16, 2007 at 04:19 PM

Nov 06, 2007 at 07:30 AM

Rijsberman
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p.2 #7 · Client insists on wire transfer

I'm surprised, no shocked really. What kind of insecurity is there in the US in letting others know your bankaccount info? It's like a phone number, really. People can wire you money, but there really is no way for anybody else to take money out of it, realistically. In Holland, companies typically include banking info in their letterheads, together with their address and chamber of commerce registrationno.

If I want to wire money to anyone in Europe, I log into my bank account through a secure internet connection, provide the details and boom, it's done. Nationally it takes seconds, within Europe it takes 1 to 3 days. For almost no charges at all using the IBAN (international bank account number, replaces the BIC/SWIFT-account number combo) - nationally outgoing payments are something like € 0,01, with the first €100,= free.

Come to think of it, my bank stopped using checks altogether a few years back. It's either cash, credit/debit card or wire transfer.

Edited on Nov 16, 2007 at 04:19 PM

Nov 06, 2007 at 08:28 AM

Anon Moss
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p.2 #8 · Client insists on wire transfer

Hey Dude :-)
Yes, my bank's fee is $12 per incoming regardless of size. Outgoing is free, so since I have about an equal amount of incoming and outgoing...the average fee for me is around $6...again - quite reasonable IMHO. Of course, the person on the other end of the wire may have to pay a fee as well, and that has to be taken into consideration.
Obviously, I wouldn't need or want to use a wire for a $12 transaction. Paypal is fine for those...and yes, transactions of $400 and below would be a wash.
I've had approx 20K in transactions in the last few months, and find that the bank wires work well while saving me 3% third party fees that I view as completely unnecessary. I also feel safer and better using MY bank and the people that I personally know versus a faceless and distant Paypal wherever possible. Besides, some of the faces at my local branch are quite nice!
Cheers,
Scott

Edited on Nov 16, 2007 at 04:19 PM

Nov 06, 2007 at 09:05 AM

AJ Nadershahi
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p.2 #9 · Client insists on wire transfer

Rijsberman wrote:
I'm surprised, no shocked really. What kind of insecurity is there in the US in letting others know your bankaccount info?

It is absolutely silly. Stupid even!! The standard line is that it is due to security; which is the same excuse that is being used for everything these days. And when there is a change, they see it as another opportunity to charge more fees ever though more often than not it is actually reducing their operating expenses. It's an embarrassment.

Edited on Nov 16, 2007 at 04:19 PM

Nov 06, 2007 at 09:12 AM

AJ Nadershahi
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p.2 #10 · Client insists on wire transfer

My second bank requires a paper form for each transaction (to complete an electronic transfer), plus a photo ID. I need to find a new bank - This is the stone ages!!

Edited on Nov 16, 2007 at 04:19 PM

Nov 06, 2007 at 09:20 AM

shatterkiss
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p.2 #11 · Client insists on wire transfer

mdude85 wrote:
At a 3% incoming rate for payment on Paypal, a $12 fee would be applied to a transfer of $400. I suppose it depends on how much you use Paypal but I consider $400 to be a pretty large transfer. So in that respect I don't consider the fees to be *that* silly compared to an incoming wire fee. Is this $12 fee on all incoming wires regardless of amount? Imagine paying a $12 fee on a $12 wire!!

Most people aren't being paid across national borders for jobs of $400 and under. The average wire transfers I've been receiving from clients are in the $10,000 to $40,000 range, and I'd rather pay a flat fee on that than a percentage fee.

It's also nice being able to send a wire in the destination currency. As my vendors in the UK are billing me in GBP, it's better to wire out GBP than write a check for USD and attempt to do my own currency conversion.

I wouldn't even bother charging a $12 fee. It isn't worth the time it'd take to process the invoice.

Edited on Nov 16, 2007 at 04:19 PM

Nov 06, 2007 at 01:34 PM

Mike Mahoney
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p.2 #12 · Client insists on wire transfer

Rijsberman wrote:
What kind of insecurity is there in the US in letting others know your bankaccount info? It's like a phone number, really. People can wire you money, but there really is no way for anybody else to take money out of it, realistically.

Maybe time to rethink that .. identity theft is becoming a large problem in North America, and a bank account number is a prime piece of information to identity theives.

Basically they build a profile on you from many different sources of information (including garbage cans) and then assume your identity for a brief period of time to use your credit and withdraw money on your accounts without your knowledge.

Probably the biggest growth in white collar crime is in the areas of identity theft. Hence my initial reluctance to part with my account numbers.

And even though all our bank account information is on the cheques we mail every day, it is important to note that we choose who we send these cheques to .. often a utility or other institution with no motivation to steal any of our banking information.
Mike

Edited on Nov 16, 2007 at 04:19 PM

Nov 06, 2007 at 04:37 PM

Anon Moss
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p.2 #13 · Client insists on wire transfer

Mike,
When you "send a cheque" even to someone that you "choose", it can easily be intercepted, lost or stolen. If it does arrive at it's destination (which granted most of them do)...the "utility" or "institution" could easily have unethical employees who grab a little personal information here and there. Like a restaurant employee who goes in the back and swipes all of your card information while you are paying the bill. In my mind, the wire transfer system is much safer than cheques, all things considered. I still use checks, and don't plan on giving them up any time soon...but for the bigger ticket transactions, wires are great.
My 2 cents...
Cheers
Scott

Edited on Nov 16, 2007 at 04:19 PM

Nov 06, 2007 at 05:27 PM

Jack Stravage
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p.2 #14 · Client insists on wire transfer

The main problem as I see it is not the giving of your account numbers but the email that perishes you into giving them your code to access your account,

what I have done is set up a separate account for just such transactions and keep it separate from my main account, I also link my PayPal account to that checking account, and try to keep very little in it.

I once gave my password to a email that sure looked like eBay cost me about 100.00 before I found out. If you get a email from anyone saying your account will close unless you send them your information, no matter how legit it looks report it, it’s a scam.
Just my .99 cents

Edited on Nov 16, 2007 at 04:19 PM

Nov 06, 2007 at 10:18 PM

Chris VenHaus
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p.2 #15 · Client insists on wire transfer

I do a fair amount of international business and have also had requests for wire transfers, and was very paranoid about giving my bank acct details to a stranger. In the end, a simple solution was this: Open a new account with your bank and put $100 in it. Use this account for incoming wire transfers, and know with certainty that the absolute worst that could ever happen is that someone would scam you for $100 (unlikely), but still a warm/fuzzy feeling. After receipt of the transfer, simply move it to your main account. It has worked like a charm for me since I started doing this. Good luck.

Edited on Nov 16, 2007 at 04:19 PM

Nov 07, 2007 at 12:16 AM

Anon Moss
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p.2 #16 · Client insists on wire transfer

Hey Chris,
I've got a bone to pick with you - man....
When you sold me my 1st digital camera (10D) on Ebay 3 years ago...you started me down the road to ruin (check my profile). I HOPE YOU'RE HAPPY !!
It's great to see you here - what a surprise.
Small world eh ??
Cheers,
Scott

PS: You need to share your excellent landscapes and northern lights images over on the landscape board. They are a very talented bunch and you will fit right in -

Edited on Nov 16, 2007 at 04:19 PM

Nov 07, 2007 at 03:31 AM

Sheila
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p.2 #17 · Client insists on wire transfer

Jack Stravage wrote:
The main problem as I see it is not the giving of your account numbers but the email that perishes you into giving them your code to access your account,

With respect, you don't give them any "code" to your account, just the account number and name. They do not have any "access" to your account other than to place funds into it. They certainly cannot withdraw any funds with those details. Well, that's the way it works in Australia and Europe.

Cheers
Sheila

Edited on Nov 16, 2007 at 04:19 PM

Nov 07, 2007 at 07:45 AM

Nick Klofkorn
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p.2 #18 · Client insists on wire transfer

you could just make a separate account for wire transfers

Edited on Nov 16, 2007 at 04:19 PM

Nov 07, 2007 at 09:44 AM

louis fusco
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p.2 #19 · Client insists on wire transfer

it's used in europe all the time. get over it.

Edited on Nov 16, 2007 at 04:19 PM

Nov 07, 2007 at 10:10 AM

Chris VenHaus
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p.2 #20 · Client insists on wire transfer

Anon: Looks like you've done an upgrade or two since the 10D :-) I didn't see alink to any of your images. Where can I see them?

Here's a link to my portfolio. I tried to post some images with my Zeiss 35-70 and 5D on the alternative forum, but it wouldn't let me post (no subscription).

Yes, it is a small world, indeed. Enjoy!

Edited on Nov 16, 2007 at 04:19 PM

Nov 07, 2007 at 02:41 PM

AJ Nadershahi
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p.2 #21 · Client insists on wire transfer

Chris VenHaus wrote:

I tried to post some images with my Zeiss 35-70 and 5D on the alternative forum, but it wouldn't let me post (no subscription).

Instead of uploading images directly into FM, you can just place a link back to your existing image location and it will appear in your post.

Edited on Nov 16, 2007 at 04:19 PM

Nov 07, 2007 at 03:44 PM

nathanlake
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p.2 #22 · Client insists on wire transfer

Lesson here.....money first, then delivery.

Edited on Nov 16, 2007 at 04:19 PM

Nov 08, 2007 at 01:57 AM

mdude85
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p.2 #23 · Client insists on wire transfer

shatterkiss wrote:

Most people aren't being paid across national borders for jobs of $400 and under. The average wire transfers I've been receiving from clients are in the $10,000 to $40,000 range, and I'd rather pay a flat fee on that than a percentage fee.

It's also nice being able to send a wire in the destination currency. As my vendors in the UK are billing me in GBP, it's better to wire out GBP than write a check for USD and attempt to do my own currency conversion.

I wouldn't even bother charging a $12 fee. It isn't worth the time it'd take to process the invoice.

I don't know anyone who would complain about a $12 wiring fee on a $40,000 wire transfer.

Edited on Nov 16, 2007 at 04:19 PM

Nov 08, 2007 at 03:53 AM

Mike Mahoney
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p.2 #24 · Client insists on wire transfer

Here's a funny thing .. this morning I get an email from my clients institution telling me a transfer of funds has been completed .. so I go online to my account and see no transfer.

So I wait an hour and still no money and then re-check the email, which contained the wrong account info .. the client had put the wrong transit number on the transfer.

So now he's checking on it.

Edited on Nov 16, 2007 at 04:19 PM

Nov 08, 2007 at 06:59 PM

annayu
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p.2 #25 · Client insists on wire transfer

It takes a few days for the money to appear in your account.

Edited on Nov 16, 2007 at 04:19 PM

Nov 08, 2007 at 07:09 PM


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