Uncle Bob strikes again!

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Archive 2007 · Uncle Bob strikes again!

oasis
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p.1 #1 · Uncle Bob strikes again!

Probably our worst one so far.

He had a d2x, flash with one of the Fong Dongs perched atop, and his wife with another flash on a monopod slaving him. ALL DAY. Obviously not a professional since I imagine a pro would know to stay out of the way and at least be more discrete than this.

The worst was during the ceremony - sitting in the second row, and occasionally the flash on a stick would rise up above and fire off flashes (we don't use flash for the ceremony except when the processional requires it). The most lovely part of all of this was the 5-7 beeps that the flash (I guess? do nikon flashes do this?) made after every fire. The guests were extremely annoyed and clearly many of them thought it was one of us. You would think if he didn't know to turn it off he would just stop shooting, but nope. It completely ruined the mood of the ceremony.

We had several people come to us during the cocktail hour and say, "tell your buddy to turn that $hit off" - some of them (e.g. the bridal party) knew he was family and not with us and were just joking, while other guests had to be told it had nothing to do with us. "Dueling photographers? Wow, I've never seen that before!" I'm pretty sure the B&G knew it was uncle, and we will clear that up when we see them for an upcoming bridal session.

I'm all for family members bringing their gear and having a good time (despite the exclusivity clause we have in our contract), and we don't confront anyone unless they're being really obnoxious, but this not only affected us, it also ruined the ceremony for many of the guests (I'm really hoping the B&G didn't notice, but I'm not sure how they couldn't have).

I felt embarrassed for enthusiast purchasers of pro gear everywhere...

Oct 22, 2007 at 08:48 PM

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p.1 #2 · Uncle Bob strikes again!

DIdn't he (unlce bob) make a post the other day asking advice about shooting a a family wedding?
Didn't someone tell him if he wasn't allowed to use flash then to sit with the guests and pretend to be a guest?

Check your area - you may have a new competitor now that he has portfolio material

Oct 22, 2007 at 09:12 PM

rockit
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p.1 #3 · Uncle Bob strikes again!

wow. thats bad.

did he do that at all the formals as well?

Oct 22, 2007 at 09:15 PM

Brian Mullins
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p.1 #4 · Uncle Bob strikes again!

Oasis, yes, slaved Nikon flashes can be set to beep when they are ready to fire again. I will say, if he has a D2X and SB-800's slaved, he most likely is not an uncle bob. Perhaps he is a pro fashion or editorial photographer and doesn't understand wedding photography.. perhaps (more likely), he just didn't care about your shots and wanted to get his own as a "present" for the B&G.

Anytime I shoot a wedding that I am attending, I always stay out of the hired photographers way, introduce myself when its convenient and find out how long they will be offering print sales for so I don't cut into their profit when I deliver my photos to the B&G. I am sure many other do the same but I'm just as sure there are alot of people who don't care.

One thing is for sure.. had he gotten in my way or begun affecting my shots, I would more readily approach him and ask for him to back down seeing as he has pro gear, then I would uncle barney with the P&S.

Oct 22, 2007 at 09:22 PM

Aaron Winters
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p.1 #5 · Uncle Bob strikes again!

Amazing how inconsiderate and stupid some people can be. I have had similar things happen to me as well though not quite as bad.

Oct 22, 2007 at 09:22 PM

pasbair
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p.1 #6 · Uncle Bob strikes again!

That's a pretty bad case. My thought is that the couple should have stepped in and stopped them at some point -- and by not doing so, they were giving them permission. Surely somebody in the family knew they were going to do that or certainly they knew that they WERE doing what they were doing.

Sometimes I come home from a wedding and just sit quietly in the dark wondering why did these people just shell out thousands of dollars only to have a 2 or three dozen guests pop around with their cameras shooting everything we shoot. These people have no idea how rude they are to cause distractions when they couple has shelled out a great deal of money for hired pros.

I'll bet all of my last three weddings have multiple key shots with one or more guests in the background sporting a camera head (face covered by a camera held up to their eye). Simul-flashes are so common that the main reason I have to carry a battery pack on my flash is to make sure I get something shot inbetween guest camera flashes. Even trying to shoot the processional from a bit to the side of the center aisle is impossible because there are so many elbows sticking out from the pews by guests taking shots. Shooting pictures is part of the entertainment guests seem to feel entitled to at weddings.

Probably not as bad as I'm making it out to be but it's just so nice to have a handful of weddings where the guest cameras are minimal. There've been a few of those also and they are a joy.

Peggy

Oct 22, 2007 at 09:55 PM

RedWhiteandRed
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p.1 #7 · Uncle Bob strikes again!

Cool - those pesky Nikon folk.

Oct 22, 2007 at 09:59 PM

oasis
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p.1 #8 · Uncle Bob strikes again!

Oh, forgot to add one of our favorite events from the evening. Long story short, we have a photobooth-style setup that uses a backdrop. He was using the backdrop to pose people against for his own shots rather than allowing guests to use the setup.

Prof - Haha, wouldn't be surprised if he's an FMer.

That is, if you're a hobbyist and have a Fong on your flash, you've got to be a member of SOME photography forum right?!
I'm betting he is looking to start a wedding business though because he was a little too hell bent on getting everything he possibly could. I'm going to be pretty peeved if I see this wedding in a portfolio somewhere. I bet if he laid out his images, he will have shot the entire wedding.

rockit - yes, he was over my shoulder during the formals, firing off his flash as well. Which did ruin my exposure on several shots. You'd think with the duration of flash and shutters simulflash would be less of an issue but I see at least 5 instances out of roughly 60 images where I appear to have caught his flash in my exposure. He wasn't on the formals list so he actually had no other business being in the room at the time. He was also trying to do some directing. As my partner was trying to pose a large group, the B&G shared a quick kiss. The flash fires off behind me about 0.5 sec too late. "Damn, I missed it! Can you guys do it again?" Meanwhile, my partner is trying to get the couple's attention so we can wrap up formals and get them out to the cocktail hour asap...

Brian - thanks for the Nikon flash info. Figured it had to be the flash. Earlier in the day his wife had told me photography is a "passion" and he's not a pro. And yeah, I actually don't take my camera to weddings anymore - my GF's cousin got married recently and although the couple and several family members requested me to bring my gear, I declined out of respect for the hired.

Aaron - yep, just when you think it can't get any worse.

Peggy - I hear ya. Don't even get me started about the elbows and cams during the processional! I think guests have a right to photograph the wedding and our business is set up in such a way where we don't care about print sales. But when it's causing people in our group shots to look at other cameras or the appearance of camera-head (and flash-arm) in every other shot, it is really frustrating. I can only hope he becomes a hired pro one day and experiences the same joy.

Red - yeah, it's always the Nikon folk.

We've had numerous occasions where guests have had dSLRs (pro and prosumer) and have stayed out of the way. Makes me appreciate those people and weddings even more.

Oct 22, 2007 at 10:32 PM

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p.1 #9 · Uncle Bob strikes again!

I don't know any pro that would bring all that gear to attend a wedding at which you are a guest at. Caring that stuff around is already enough, and I find myself more often than not leaving all my stuff and not bringing anything to an engagement like this. At most I would bring a P&S, never a body&lens combo.

Looks like uncle Bob wanted to be cool, sucks for you guys. In those situations, where I can see that a particular guest is being annoying with the photos, I will confront the B&G and let them know that he's being a nuisance to the guests, and is making me look bad, as the guests might assume he/she is with me, and that he could potentially interfere with their photos. I've never had to do this, but I have confronted the B&G and told them about guest photography when one was just getting in the way.

Oct 22, 2007 at 11:03 PM

Matt Graves
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p.1 #10 · Uncle Bob strikes again!

I take my gear to weddings I go to as a guest, but usually it it only one body with a fast lens on it so I don't have to use flash and potentially mess with the hired guns gear.

I would be very frustrated with the situation you described.

Oct 23, 2007 at 04:31 AM

dennisyvette
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p.1 #11 · Uncle Bob strikes again!

I have a claus in my contract about guest and family shooting pictures. It states that they are allowed as long as they are not shooting all our posed shots and causing a a problem. There have been several times where I put my foot down about people shooting. It's distracting to me and the people that are having their pictures done. For instance, the other day the groom's sister was looking at someone else's camera. I stopped Dennis and pointed at his camera. I then said..Ladies, this is the camera that has been paid for. These are the pictures that will go in the album. Usually they get the message and so does ther person behind us. Yvette

Oct 23, 2007 at 05:45 AM

j.curtis
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p.1 #12 · Uncle Bob strikes again!

dennisyvette wrote:
I have a claus in my contract about guest and family shooting pictures. It states that they are allowed as long as they are not shooting all our posed shots and causing a a problem. There have been several times where I put my foot down about people shooting. It's distracting to me and the people that are having their pictures done. For instance, the other day the groom's sister was looking at someone else's camera. I stopped Dennis and pointed at his camera. I then said..Ladies, this is the camera that has been paid for. These are the pictures that will go in the album. Usually they get the message and so does ther person behind us. Yvette

Everyone should have this clause. I've never used it, but it doesn't mean I wouldn't, especially in a case like this. I would have also talked to the B&G and told them that uncle bob is going to ruin your pictures if you don't get him to stop.

I'm not paid to confront guests. I don't ask people to stop taking pictures. Thats a fight I won't have with guests. Makes you look like a serious A**. Let the B&G do it. They should be respected by the guests and be able to quickly and quietly take care of the issue.

Oct 23, 2007 at 12:29 PM

RedWhiteandRed
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p.1 #13 · Uncle Bob strikes again!

Oct 23, 2007 at 03:04 PM

fstop212
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p.1 #14 · Uncle Bob strikes again!

People really make me sick. I would have shoved that flash right up his @$$

Oct 23, 2007 at 04:04 PM

ggrtist
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p.1 #15 · Uncle Bob strikes again!

I just have to ask one thing, I love photography and all..but pros that bring even the basic of gear when you are a guest at a wedding, do you just LOVE it that much?? Before getting into this line of work I would have never thought of bringing even a point and shoot and now that I'm in this business, I'd welcome going to a wedding as a guest and just enjoy it without a camera!

Uncle bob's (or in our case, younger friends or family members of the couple wanting to get into the business) have been becoming a problem. They just don't know how to be unobtrusive, we end up with quite a few great moments at the ceremony that have a big DSLR sticking out in them.

We're working on some info and sample images that we're going to show clients so they can be aware of it and ward off any of their family that talk about bringing their new Canons.

Oct 23, 2007 at 05:25 PM

oasis
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p.1 #16 · Uncle Bob strikes again!

j.curtis wrote:
I'm not paid to confront guests. I don't ask people to stop taking pictures. Thats a fight I won't have with guests. Makes you look like a serious A**. Let the B&G do it. They should be respected by the guests and be able to quickly and quietly take care of the issue.

I agree, but it's always such a thin line between telling the B&G something to stress them out vs. just taking care of it and telling them later.

And we do have the clause in the contract regarding family members being permitted to photograph so long as they don't interfere/distract us. But, I personally just don't have the cajones to remind the couple of the clause during their big day...

I do like the "this is the camera that's being paid" approach, Yvette....cute and to the point...

Oct 23, 2007 at 06:05 PM

oasis
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p.1 #17 · Uncle Bob strikes again!

ggrtist wrote:
We're working on some info and sample images that we're going to show clients so they can be aware of it and ward off any of their family that talk about bringing their new Canons.

Awesome idea - hope you'll share when you're done.

Oct 23, 2007 at 06:07 PM

poisonpill
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p.1 #18 · Uncle Bob strikes again!

I feel for you guys. This is one reasons I have no interest in doing weddings as a job. (assuming I had the skill)

I'd rather just be uncle bob... well at least the less obnoxious variant.

Oct 23, 2007 at 06:23 PM

Scott Clark
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p.1 #19 · Uncle Bob strikes again!

We're working on some info and sample images that we're going to show clients so they can be aware of it and ward off any of their family that talk about bringing their new Canons.

Yes, we want to make sure they're all Nikons

. Just kidding. People are idiots...it's too bad when they have to make your job harder because of it.

Oct 23, 2007 at 07:31 PM

KrautFed
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p.1 #20 · Uncle Bob strikes again!

I think I just thought of a gold mine... I could produce replacement decals stating "D40", "D40x" and "D50" and sell to Uncle Bobs and these types alike. Nikoners could cover their "D2xs", "D2x", "D200", soon "D3" and "D300", and then claim their harmless intentions because they are using a prosumer camera.

Being serious, that is extremely rude. Photographers HAVE to know their shutter clicks, AF beeps, flash bursts, and flash ready beeps are very distracting.

Oct 23, 2007 at 09:21 PM

Josh Button
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p.1 #21 · Uncle Bob strikes again!

Here's my take as something of an 'Uncle Bob'...

I usually do sports photography, but love photography in general (yes, you could call it a passion). I don't do wedding photography, but read this forum and a few others, and it's given me an appreciation of the difficulties the WP faces. That said, I like to take photos at friends' weddings, and to me it is part of enjoying the wedding.

So... I only take one camera body. One lens (either a fast zoom or a fast prime). No flash. I stay out of the way of the hired photographer(s). I don't stand behind them during formals (I know how that can draw the subjects' eyes). I try not to get the same shots.

This last point is something I think is worth mentioning.. I try to get shots I know they hired photographers aren't likely to get, so I avoid the formal, posed shots. I look for detail shots and candids of guests, I don't want to duplicate what the B&G have already paid for, and what the pros will be wanting to sell prints of.

Oh and FWIW, the guy the OP is talking about sounds awful.. there were two guys like that at the second last wedding I went to, and they were just as rude to guests, jumping in front of peoples' cameras so that they could get 'their' shot, flashes firing constantly (though it quite was dark by then, I was shooting ISO3200 and ISO 6400 f1.7)

Oct 23, 2007 at 11:01 PM

sealsphoto
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p.1 #22 · Uncle Bob strikes again!

This past Saturday my niece was married. Guess what....Uncle Bob (I mean Uncle John...that would be me) was the photographer. Her new mother in law has an uncle that is/was a wedding photographer. My niece insisted that I shoot the wedding. To make a long story short, the other uncle came over and we compared equipment and talked shop for a short time, and then he stayed out of my way the rest of the evening. I only spotted him once taking the same thing that I was. Worked out pretty nice.

Now, what really torques me are the people that get in the way with P&S cameras. I don't know how many times I have been at the back of the church ready to shoot the father of the bride getting ready to kiss his daughter and give her away, when some idiot steps out into the middle of the aisle and holds up a p&s to get the picture. And it is never a skinny person that you can shoot around, it is someone that needs a wide load placard on their butt. I have taken now to placing a camera up front on a tripod with a pocket wizard on it to shoot remote shots. I usually wait for the videographer to place his video, then put it close to that. I check first to make sure they are not recording sound off that camera, so the camera clicks from mine aren't on the soundtrack. Takes care of the problem most of the time.

Oct 24, 2007 at 12:54 AM

Montrealer
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p.1 #23 · Uncle Bob strikes again!

ggrtist wrote:
Uncle bob's (or in our case, younger friends or family members of the couple wanting to get into the business) have been becoming a problem. They just don't know how to be unobtrusive, we end up with quite a few great moments at the ceremony that have a big DSLR sticking out in them.

We're working on some info and sample images that we're going to show clients so they can be aware of it and ward off any of their family that talk about bringing their new Canons.

Maybe should consider banning family all together from wedding...they get in the way of good photos... only a few friends allowed (they have to be photogenic and stay still and quiet), and no one gets to have any fun, or be spontaneous until the wedding photographer says so... what do these folks getting married think... that this is supposed to be a fun day ? Of course not, it's only a photo-op.

Oct 24, 2007 at 01:50 AM

SingleMalt
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p.1 #24 · Uncle Bob strikes again!

RedWhiteandRed wrote:
dennisyvette wrote:
I have a claus in my contract about guest and family shooting pictures. It states that they are allowed as long as they are not shooting all our posed shots and causing a a problem. There have been several times where I put my foot down about people shooting. It's distracting to me and the people that are having their pictures done. For instance, the other day the groom's sister was looking at someone else's camera. I stopped Dennis and pointed at his camera. I then said..Ladies, this is the camera that has been paid for. These are the pictures that will go in the album. Usually they get the message and so does ther person behind us. Yvette

As if that was enforceable, legal, etc.

That is a valid point. Which is why I have an addition clause in my contract, that the B&G agree that I am not responsible for photos ruined by the flashes, or photographic activities of others. That IS enforceable.

Oct 24, 2007 at 02:50 AM

radical
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p.1 #25 · Uncle Bob strikes again!

I have encountered this problem. One of the ways I have handled it is to explain to the B&G long before the wedding that they risk having some of their pictures ruined due to family photogs. Getting this out in the open well in advance of the ceremony is much better than trying to deal with it on the day of.

When they ask what I suggest, I tell them that having someone (the priest is usually best) ask that anyone other than the professional photographer to refrain from flash photography during the ceremony. I also ask them to assign me a family member who will enforce the rule in the event of a problem. I find members of the immediate family tend to know most of the people present and know where the bodies are buried.

What is even more annoying than flash IMHO are the AF assist lights many consumer digital cameras have. During one cake cutting the bride's white dress was lit up like a Christmas tree with all the red and green dots and lines and it ruined a number of the shots.

As a side note, if I am a guest at a wedding and know the B&G well, I generally DO take my camera. However, in those cases I shoot natural light and stay the heck out of the way of the hired photog - not just keeping from being between them and the shot, but insuring I'm not in the background of their shot either. I also try to stick to shots they aren't getting. This tends to be mostly candids, but I also see it as an opportunity for experimentation. Not being the hired pro is very freeing... because there's no pressure on me to produce any specific pictures I can feel free to try different things.

Oct 24, 2007 at 03:21 AM


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