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Archive 2007 · Primes! Has Nikon forgotten?

Qranc
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p.3 #1 · Primes! Has Nikon forgotten?

This complaint of Nikon primes lacking AFS is actually amusing to me because a lens like the wonderful 85mm 1.2 USM, the only thing wonderful about it is the images but USM or not it aint fast. Slower than many screw driven primes I have used in the past for goodness sake. You can't even try manual focus because because you have to rotate the ring 2x for a full rack (exaggeration but not far off).

Fast wide primes? fine, if you need it then Canon has it so you will either buy a Canon or stay with Canon for that reason. I neither expect nor desire people to switch to Nikon because I am sort of selfish that way, I only think of myself and don't care what anyone else uses. It's just freakin camera gear ya know?

Oct 09, 2007 at 06:08 PM

HerbChong
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p.3 #2 · Primes! Has Nikon forgotten?

you would be wrong.

Herb...

CKrueger wrote:
If primes account for less than 1% of Nikon's lens sales, how could they afford to develop a new 400mm, 500mm, AND 600mm prime? They'll never make their money back. At least not unless everyone buys ten copies of each.

Looking at the Canon market, there is significant demand for the 35/1.4, 85/1.2, and 135/2, and Canon even saw enough market to sell a 50/1.2 for over $1000. There's gotta be a bigger market for primes than your 1% indicates.

Oct 09, 2007 at 06:15 PM

mjmetts
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p.3 #3 · Primes! Has Nikon forgotten?

I have a lot of trouble buying that 1% figure. Every serious photographer I know presonally owns at least one prime lens - many own several.

When I go to a portrait shoot, I have a wide zoom (though I would use a wide prime) 50mm and 85mm primes.

My brother - a serious hobbyist - uses 17mm Tokina, Sigma 30mm and Nikon 85mm 1.4.

My friend who is a photojournalist and wedding photographer with with Canon's 16-35L, 50 1.4, and 135 f/2L.

Most of the people here on FM own a couple.

I could go on, but I've simply seen too many primes in my day to believe that they are 1% of the lenses sold.

Maybe the figure that could be skewing this is the amount of kit lenses sold with the cheaper bodies to soccer moms but as far as what professionals, part-timers and serious hobyists use, most of them have and enjoy using primes.

Oct 09, 2007 at 06:18 PM

mjmetts
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p.3 #4 · Primes! Has Nikon forgotten?

Qranc wrote:
Fast wide primes? fine, if you need it then Canon has it so you will either buy a Canon or stay with Canon for that reason. I neither expect nor desire people to switch to Nikon because I am sort of selfish that way, I only think of myself and don't care what anyone else uses. It's just freakin camera gear ya know?

I have never understood these complaints from Nikon users. I have shot in both camps and there are things I certainly prefer about the Nikons over the Canons. Just because I like primes doesn't mean I'm willing to dump all the other benefits of NIkon just to have the two lenses that I want in Canon mount.

Before the D3 there were constant posts on this board about how nobody needed better high ISO performance than the D2X. Why is everyone so against technological advancement and tools that make our craft open to new possibilities? Wouldn't it be amazing to shoot in a available light with the D3 unlike anthing we had shot in before? A D3 with a 24mm f/1.4 would be such a killer combination for documentary photography, photojournalists, wedding photographers and so many others. Why are we so against that?

I really like my Nikon gear. I just wish that Nikon would bring their lens line-up into the same range as the competition.

FYI, a reason for AF-S primes is to keep the noise down in situations like weddings and concerts - though I suppose now you'll tell me that if I want a quiet lens I should buy a Canon.

Oct 09, 2007 at 06:24 PM

turnert
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p.3 #5 · Primes! Has Nikon forgotten?

mjmetts wrote:
I have a lot of trouble buying that 1% figure. Every serious photographer I know presonally owns at least one prime lens - many own several.

There's the rub, I think. What's the ratio of serious photographers that buy primes to soccer moms wanting a D40 with a few slow zoomers?

Oct 09, 2007 at 06:25 PM

dinoadventures
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p.3 #6 · Primes! Has Nikon forgotten?

turnert wrote:
mjmetts wrote:
I have a lot of trouble buying that 1% figure. Every serious photographer I know presonally owns at least one prime lens - many own several.

There's the rub, I think. What's the ratio of serious photographers that buy primes to soccer moms wanting a D40 with a few slow zoomers?

i'd like to know the ratio of people who buy additional lenses to people who buy a kit and that's it.

Oct 09, 2007 at 06:30 PM

mjmetts
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p.3 #7 · Primes! Has Nikon forgotten?

HerbChong wrote:
you would be wrong.

Herb...

I find your attitude amazing considering that all you're basing that on your ability to discern "Nikon's financial disclosures + doing some arithmetic based on production figures of the lenses they do disclose quantities on + knowing that industry-wide". It's more than a little off-putting.

CKrueger has a point. Canon saw fit to produce these and I know that they sell many of them. The 35L is often incredibly hard to find because it's such a hot seller.

Oct 09, 2007 at 06:30 PM

Andre Labonte
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p.3 #8 · Primes! Has Nikon forgotten?

turnert wrote:
mjmetts wrote:
I have a lot of trouble buying that 1% figure. Every serious photographer I know presonally owns at least one prime lens - many own several.

There's the rub, I think. What's the ratio of serious photographers that buy primes to soccer moms wanting a D40 with a few slow zoomers?

EXACTLY! OK for the sake of argument, let us say that it is ten times what Herb sais, 10% of Nikon's lens sales is prime lenses. Still then, it does not make sence for Nikon to update the WA primes when there are zooms (i.e. 90+% of sales) that needs to be updated. Logically Nikon would update the zooms first.

IT IS ECONOMICS PEOPLE!!!!!

Next, of the primes from WA to Tele and Macro, it makes sence to do the long teles first for a variety of reasons:

-- There is no zoom equivalent of the long tele lenses (200-400 excepted) and f/2.8 is needed for sports.
-- Most WA primes are used for landscape etc, and are therefore stopped down. Yes, the PJ photogs like speed and f/2.8 is usually all they need especially with the ease of getting high ISO these days.
-- Free advertising. yea, those sports photogs get a lot of visibility on the sidelines with camera in hand, more than any landscape photographer does.
-- Price/profit per unit compared to R&D costs. Those big lenses may not sell in large numbers but the profit per unit is much larger than it is for WA primes. However, R&D costs are about the same I bet. Optics is optics and only at the normal range is anything "inexpensive"

So what's left in the prime area? WA lenses, mid-range, short tele's (<200mm) and specialy lenses (macro and PC).

-- Specialty -- yep, need at least one macro updated as this is a big area of use .. oh, we have two, the 85PC and the 105VR. Sure would be nice to have a WA PC lens, but sales of the 28PC were low as was evident with the $400 used resale price of a $1200 lens.

-- short tele's -- spead is needed for sports and PJ, but hey, that 70-200 f/2.8 is so flexible that that's what they use ... OK wedding and portrait photogs have the excellent 85 f/1.4 and 105DC and the 135 ... these are fast and fast AF is not needed for these applications. All set here ... for now, but of all the areas, this is probably next as volume sales to professionals and avid ametures will be high in this area.

-- Mid-range -- well those 50mm lenses are so damb cheep, where is the profit in spending the R&D

-- WA lenses -- OK, the f/2.8 WA are fine for 90+% of what most people use WA lense for. Same with NO VR and AF-S. A few PJs and other crazy people

want faster but this is maybe a few percent of a market sector that is only 10% of the over-all. Why would people pay big $$$ for an f/1.4 WA when most are happy with an f/2.8 WA

More pros will buy a 300 f/2.8 or even a 400 f/2.8 than a 28 f/1.4 and the profit margin on the tele lenses is higher for roughly the same R&D costs. Yea, this is the last area Nikon will likely do anything to upgrade.

Oct 09, 2007 at 07:00 PM

HerbChong
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p.3 #9 · Primes! Has Nikon forgotten?

my sources are extremely reliable in relaying production statistics. i am not a liberty to disclose them other than to say that they are subscription-only. there are very few people i know who own primes other than people who frequent places like here and that accounts for a tiny portion of the market. believe what you will.

Nikon's primes contribute little to their bottom line for huge development costs and also sell in low volumes. there are a few important primes where having a zoom doesn't make sense. macros and super teles are the main ones.

Nikon has spent a lot of money developing the 14-24/2.8 and 24-70/2.8, far more than developing even 3 or 4 fast primes in the same focal length range, because they know they will recoup their costs quickly while probably delivering better image quality than any existing Nikkor lens of any kind in that range. arguably, they weren't needed because the 17-55 and 28-70 already existed that some consider the finest lenses of their type that has ever existed. why would they spend the money developing these new lenses?

Nikon has plenty of primes already designed and in production that aren't going to be updated for a very long time, if ever and those are going to be your choices. do you think they would have discontinued the 28/1.4 if it were selling well? would i buy a set of Nikkor ultra quality wide to short tele primes? probably, if they could all be the level of the 48/2.8P.

Herb...

Oct 09, 2007 at 07:22 PM

dinoadventures
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p.3 #10 · Primes! Has Nikon forgotten?

Andre Labonte wrote:Why would people pay big $$$ for an f/1.4 WA when most are happy with an f/2.8 WA

Because the 'lunatic fringe' that need such lenses for particular applications will throw money at it. It's no different from other specialty lenses in that aspect.

Oct 09, 2007 at 07:25 PM

AUnderwood
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p.3 #11 · Primes! Has Nikon forgotten?

Andre Labonte wrote:
turnert wrote:
mjmetts wrote:
I have a lot of trouble buying that 1% figure. Every serious photographer I know presonally owns at least one prime lens - many own several.

There's the rub, I think. What's the ratio of serious photographers that buy primes to soccer moms wanting a D40 with a few slow zoomers?

EXACTLY! OK for the sake of argument, let us say that it is ten times what Herb sais, 10% of Nikon's lens sales is prime lenses. Still then, it does not make sence for Nikon to update the WA primes when there are zooms (i.e. 90+% of sales) that needs to be updated. Logically Nikon would update the zooms first.

IT IS ECONOMICS PEOPLE!!!!!

Next, of the primes from WA to Tele and Macro, it makes sence to do the long teles first for a variety of reasons:

-- There is no zoom equivalent of the long tele lenses (200-400 excepted) and f/2.8 is needed for sports.
-- Most WA primes are used for landscape etc, and are therefore stopped down. Yes, the PJ photogs like speed and f/2.8 is usually all they need especially with the ease of getting high ISO these days.
-- Free advertising. yea, those sports photogs get a lot of visibility on the sidelines with camera in hand, more than any landscape photographer does.
-- Price/profit per unit compared to R&D costs. Those big lenses may not sell in large numbers but the profit per unit is much larger than it is for WA primes. However, R&D costs are about the same I bet. Optics is optics and only at the normal range is anything "inexpensive"

So what's left in the prime area? WA lenses, mid-range, short tele's (<200mm) and specialy lenses (macro and PC).

-- Specialty -- yep, need at least one macro updated as this is a big area of use .. oh, we have two, the 85PC and the 105VR. Sure would be nice to have a WA PC lens, but sales of the 28PC were low as was evident with the $400 used resale price of a $1200 lens.

-- short tele's -- spead is needed for sports and PJ, but hey, that 70-200 f/2.8 is so flexible that that's what they use ... OK wedding and portrait photogs have the excellent 85 f/1.4 and 105DC and the 135 ... these are fast and fast AF is not needed for these applications. All set here ... for now, but of all the areas, this is probably next as volume sales to professionals and avid ametures will be high in this area.

-- Mid-range -- well those 50mm lenses are so damb cheep, where is the profit in spending the R&D

-- WA lenses -- OK, the f/2.8 WA are fine for 90+% of what most people use WA lense for. Same with NO VR and AF-S. A few PJs and other crazy people

want faster but this is maybe a few percent of a market sector that is only 10% of the over-all. Why would people pay big $$$ for an f/1.4 WA when most are happy with an f/2.8 WA

More pros will buy a 300 f/2.8 or even a 400 f/2.8 than a 28 f/1.4 and the profit margin on the tele lenses is higher for roughly the same R&D costs. Yea, this is the last area Nikon will likely do anything to upgrade.

Do some research first on how many 24 1.4 and 35 1.4 lenses that Canon sells and tell me WHY Nikon wouldn't make at least one of the above lenses.

According to you very few people use or need them but the 35 1.4 is one of Canon's most popular primes.

Oct 09, 2007 at 07:26 PM

HerbChong
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p.3 #12 · Primes! Has Nikon forgotten?

until the recently announced VR lenses, the long telephotos were considerably simpler than most zooms and moreover, their basic optical formula hasn't changed in years. the 600/4 AF-I through the AF-S II are basically identical optically. these may even be identical with the last versions of the manual focus lenses.

i see no significant action in the Nikkor wide prime selection for years, as much as i would like to see something fast at around 30mm. for now, my Sigma 30/1.4 has to do, but it's at best an OK lens. it doesn't belong in the same league as my Pentax 31/1.8 Limited.

Herb...

Andre Labonte wrote:
-- Price/profit per unit compared to R&D costs. Those big lenses may not sell in large numbers but the profit per unit is much larger than it is for WA primes. However, R&D costs are about the same I bet. Optics is optics and only at the normal range is anything "inexpensive"

Oct 09, 2007 at 07:34 PM

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p.3 #13 · Primes! Has Nikon forgotten?

that only tells me how few primes Canon sells. industry wide average is around 1% primes.

Herb...

AUnderwood wrote:
According to you very few people use or need them but the 35 1.4 is one of Canon's most popular primes.

Edited by HerbChong on Oct 09, 2007 at 02:36 PM GMT

Oct 09, 2007 at 07:36 PM

Andre Labonte
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p.3 #14 · Primes! Has Nikon forgotten?

AUnderwood wrote:

Do some research first on how many 24 1.4 and 35 1.4 lenses that Canon sells and tell me WHY Nikon wouldn't make at least one of the above lenses.

According to you very few people use or need them but the 35 1.4 is one of Canon's most popular primes.

Granted, but how many of those do they sell in comparison to the rest of their lens sales? In other words, what % of lens sales are these lenses compared to all primes and then compared to zooms?

Remember also, we are talking Nikon ... Nikon fell from its #1 spot to #2 and is working to catch up. You don't catch up by going after nitch lenses like a 24mm f/1.4. You catch up by going after lens right where 99% of the population wants it. An 18-200 for the consumers and a 24-70 & 70-200 for the pros. That's how you catch back up. I did not say that Nikon won't ever upgrade the WA or remake an f/1.4 WA, just that it is LOW on the priority list.

Oct 09, 2007 at 07:36 PM

Andre Labonte
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p.3 #15 · Primes! Has Nikon forgotten?

dinoadventures wrote:
Andre Labonte wrote:Why would people pay big $$$ for an f/1.4 WA when most are happy with an f/2.8 WA

Because the 'lunatic fringe' that need such lenses for particular applications will throw money at it. It's no different from other specialty lenses in that aspect.

, very true, but is there enough profit in it given the limited resources to do R&D as well as production?

Oct 09, 2007 at 07:39 PM

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p.3 #16 · Primes! Has Nikon forgotten?

the Nikkor 28/1.4 was always incredibly hard to find even when it was in production because Nikon made them so slowly. hard to get doesn't mean anything.

Herb...

mjmetts wrote:
CKrueger has a point. Canon saw fit to produce these and I know that they sell many of them. The 35L is often incredibly hard to find because it's such a hot seller.

Oct 09, 2007 at 07:42 PM

LeifG
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p.3 #17 · Primes! Has Nikon forgotten?

mjmetts wrote:
maxx9photo wrote:
Seems that everyone forget about Zeiss, they released some primes like a year ago and they're wonderful line of lenses.

Yes, but these are manual focus and not very wide or fast. Definitely not the solution working pros are looking for.

You generalise too much. Some working pros will not find them acceptable.

Others will like the fact that they have access to high quality wide primes for use on their FX camera. And they have metering and auto aperture.

Oct 09, 2007 at 08:05 PM

allen_a_george
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p.3 #18 · Primes! Has Nikon forgotten?

Frankly if Nikon's not going to address the tricked-out WA prime market, the least they can do is work with (license protocols and/or motor/chip modules) a 3rd party mfg like Zeiss, Tokina etc. to address the market.

Something like Zeiss's ZF lenses, but Nikon-sanctioned and with AF.

Oct 09, 2007 at 08:07 PM

LeifG
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p.3 #19 · Primes! Has Nikon forgotten?

johnnydanger wrote:
You guys need to cool your jets. Holy cow. Did anybody notice the name of the thread

"Primes! Has Nikon forgotten?" That's what the whole thread is about. Lack of primes. I made an entry in response to the thread starter that supported my experience and a friends experience and I was ridiculed for 2 pages. Lovely. Nice hospitable crowd you have here. Sorry for supporting the pre-tense of the thread.

And I'm hardly complaining and yes I am happy with my Canon gear. Just stating fact and offering a situation in which someone else wasn't happy about the prime availability thing either.

And lastly: I'm trolling? What about the Nikon guy that started the thread? Why is someone's response that is inline with the thread topic trolling? WTF.

Enjoy your happy Nikon forum, sorry for offering my opinion.

Firstly you were not ridiculed. The responses were for the most part simply disagreement, which is allowed.

I think it was your general attitude that rankled. You posted a series of negative posts which seemed angry to the point of aggressive. You need fast wide primes, Nikon don't have them, Canon do. Good. So you use Canon. Good for you. I can't blame you.

But it works both ways. Nikon have some things Canon don't, and visa versa. Until recently Canon had some serious advantages over Nikon, but now Nikon have some seriously good additions assuming early reports are accurate.

Personally I am miffed that Nikon have no response to the Canon 24mm TSE lens. Or the Canon 45mm TSE lens. But I really like the Nikon wireless flash system. And the micro lenses are superb. As are some others too.

Oct 09, 2007 at 08:16 PM

LeifG
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p.3 #20 · Primes! Has Nikon forgotten?

Qranc wrote:
This complaint of Nikon primes lacking AFS is actually amusing to me because a lens like the wonderful 85mm 1.2 USM, the only thing wonderful about it is the images but USM or not it aint fast. Slower than many screw driven primes I have used in the past for goodness sake. You can't even try manual focus because because you have to rotate the ring 2x for a full rack (exaggeration but not far off).

This Spring I dug out my 24mm F2.8 AFD lens used it for a day or two, then put it back in its resting place. The AF compromises the focussing as it has to be high geared to allow fast AF. That means that you cannot get a precise focus. Fortunately my 28mm F2.8 AIS lens has none of those problems, being a well made wide prime.

Oct 09, 2007 at 08:25 PM

AUnderwood
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p.3 #21 · Primes! Has Nikon forgotten?

I'm just venting because I really would like to be shooting Nikon again one day but this is what bothers me.......

Nikon doesn't really make any lenses that Canon users are envious of. In fact are there any at all? None for me besides the superior flash system BUT when I was shooting Nikon I was envious of lenses like 24 1.4, 35 1.4, 28 1.8, 24-105 4 IS, 50 1.2, 85 1.2 (even though the Nikon 1.4 isn't that far off), 300 4 IS, 400 5.6 and all the TSE lenses.

That's a lot of stuff to be envious of! lol Besides at the time of high ISO performance and FF but now Nikon is going deliver their BIGGEST blow to the professional lineup of bodies that they have ever dealt canon.

The D3 is just such a perfect body that it's going to really make Canon think about what they are going to do in the future.

If Nikon could quicken up their updates to lenses then they would really gain some market share in the Pro market.

They already made some HUGE waves in the consumer market with the D40 line.

Oct 09, 2007 at 08:34 PM

dinoadventures
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p.3 #22 · Primes! Has Nikon forgotten?

mjmetts wrote:
The 35L is often incredibly hard to find because it's such a hot seller.

The 35L also is on indefinite backorder quite often. It comes in waves. A guy at B&H who I trust said it was because of special lab-grown elements that it's often out of stock with no resupply date from Canon. I don't see anything too unusual (a ground aspherical is not rare) in the block diagram, personally, and having owned two of them and having neither outperform a 'lowly' Sigma 30 1.4 I can say I don't see what the problem is.

Oct 09, 2007 at 08:55 PM

Qranc
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p.3 #23 · Primes! Has Nikon forgotten?

mjmetts wrote:
I have never understood these complaints from Nikon users. I have shot in both camps and there are things I certainly prefer about the Nikons over the Canons. Just because I like primes doesn't mean I'm willing to dump all the other benefits of NIkon just to have the two lenses that I want in Canon mount.

It wasn't a complaint, merely a statement which I consider to be factual. Hey, we all have our wants but complaining about Nikon and it's business practices/decisions isn't going to make it happen. So the decision is yours, continue to use Nikon and either accept or you could continue to complain or get what you want/need from a manufacturer that makes it available to you. I shoot both but not because of any niche need like fast UW AFS lenses.

Before the D3 there were constant posts on this board about how nobody needed better high ISO performance than the D2X. Why is everyone so against technological advancement and tools that make our craft open to new possibilities? Wouldn't it be amazing to shoot in a available light with the D3 unlike anthing we had shot in before? A D3 with a 24mm f/1.4 would be such a killer combination for documentary photography, photojournalists, wedding photographers and so many others. Why are we so against that?

No one is against it but personally I have yet to find the gear I tote the limiting factor.

I really like my Nikon gear. I just wish that Nikon would bring their lens line-up into the same range as the competition.

Well then you are at a disadvantage. I simply am realistic in realizing Nikon is neither Canon nor has Canon's resources. Not to mention their execs have to make decisions about the strength of the company as a whole, not a specialist group which makes up a small percent of the entire segment.

There is nothing wrong with having a wish/demand or want/need however realizing that your needs not being filled does not make the company a bad decision maker nor a bad company. They have their own reasons that I am willing to accept as long as I want to continue to own Nikon gear. Do I have want's? sure, I want a Zeiss like 80mm with t/s but hey .... I can still get the job done with what I have and that's bottom line for me. Maybe I am too complacent *shrug.

FYI, a reason for AF-S primes is to keep the noise down in situations like weddings and concerts - though I suppose now you'll tell me that if I want a quiet lens I should buy a Canon.

I would never suggest you should buy a Canon, you can just as easily continue to use Nikon complain on Nikon forums and hope that one day maybe ... maybe Nikon will be like Canon.

Oct 09, 2007 at 09:16 PM

Qranc
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p.3 #24 · Primes! Has Nikon forgotten?

AUnderwood wrote:
I'm just venting because I really would like to be shooting Nikon again one day but this is what bothers me.......

Nikon doesn't really make any lenses that Canon users are envious of. In fact are there any at all? None for me besides the superior flash system BUT when I was shooting Nikon I was envious of lenses like 24 1.4, 35 1.4, 28 1.8, 24-105 4 IS, 50 1.2, 85 1.2 (even though the Nikon 1.4 isn't that far off), 300 4 IS, 400 5.6 and all the TSE lenses.

That's a lot of stuff to be envious of! lol Besides at the time of high ISO performance and FF but now Nikon is going deliver their BIGGEST blow to the professional lineup of bodies that they have ever dealt canon.

The D3 is just such a perfect body that it's going to really make Canon think about what they are going to do in the future.

If Nikon could quicken up their updates to lenses then they would really gain some market share in the Pro market.

They already made some HUGE waves in the consumer market with the D40 line.

Out of your list I like the 85 1.2 but it's heavy and slow, you can't manually focus it in a practical sense. I find the Nikkor 85 1.4 very close in terms of IQ and at the same time far less $$$. That said the images of the 85 1.2 are great, really great, it's just once the images are processed and you line them up rarely can you say "oh yeah, I know which ones were the 85 1.2" meaning to say there are a lot of other lenses you can get great images but mostly, it's not just the lens It's as much the content of the image itself and how it's captured that counts.

The 24-105L is not all that, have used two different ones and quite frankly it doesn't impress but that's just me.

TSE yes I agree but the rest of the list just isn't a big issue to me. Nor was a 24x36 sensor or noise.

On the other hand I have clients also mention "Is there a reason these pictures have more contrast and vibrant colors?" and always "these" pictures are the Nikon shots in a shoot where we used both our Nikon and Canon gear.

Oct 09, 2007 at 09:38 PM

Andre Labonte
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p.3 #25 · Primes! Has Nikon forgotten?

AUnderwood wrote:

....

Nikon doesn't really make any lenses that Canon users are envious of. In fact are there any at all? None for me besides the superior flash system BUT when I was shooting Nikon I was envious of lenses like 24 1.4, 35 1.4, 28 1.8, 24-105 4 IS, 50 1.2, 85 1.2 (even though the Nikon 1.4 isn't that far off), 300 4 IS, 400 5.6 and all the TSE lenses.

....

Speak for yourself and not all Canon users please. I have heard plenty of desire from Canon users for a lightweight walk-around lens like the 18-200VR or a long tele zoom like the 200-400VR. How about a micro lens with VR. And I'm sure the new 14-24 for FX format will not create any desire at all.

Does Canon offer a 1.7X TC? No! Nikon does!

Throw that on top of a superior flash system and a camera like the D3 or D300 ... Gosh, Nikon is a good way to go.

OK, so what does Canon have today that Nikon does not have. Some fast WA primes, a WA and normal T/S and a MP-E and a couple of other lenses that are 1/3 stop faster or have IS. All nitch stuff.

That said, I like Canon P&S camers over Nikon any day!

Oct 09, 2007 at 09:41 PM


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