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Archive 2007 · Primes! Has Nikon forgotten?

mjmetts
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p.1 #1 · Primes! Has Nikon forgotten?

Sorry for the dramatic title but I just want to vent a little.

Is Nikon never going to release new primes? So many of their primes could use updates and are very old. Lenses that I can think of needing replacing are the 28 1.4 (hopefully as a 24mm), 85 1.4, 105 2, 135 2, 180 2,8.

All of these could be updated to include AFS and modern designs. As someone here pointed out not long ago, the 180 with VR would be a killer light-weight rig.

I'm just hoping that Nikon hasn't given up on primes. As a portrait/wedding photographer I use them often and certainly look with longing to the Canon side of the fence from time to time. Not that I would switch (I have my reasons for staying) but I wish Nikon would even this out.

I suppose the release of the super-teles gives us hope. Let's hope it's soon though.

I know this is just a pointless rant but I just had to get it out of my system.

Oct 06, 2007 at 04:31 AM

poisonpill
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p.1 #2 · Primes! Has Nikon forgotten?

Their production factories in Asia are already probably clamoring for a reprieve since they have to somehow produce the D3 and D300 in large quantities for this Christmas season. I'm often quick to complain about the lack of af-s primes, but for this year and most of next, Nikon will have their hands full.

Oct 06, 2007 at 04:49 AM

panos.v
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p.1 #3 · Primes! Has Nikon forgotten?

I really don't understand why a 180/2.8 AFS VR is going to be any more successful than the current one. For less than the price of the current 180/2.8 you can get a mint 80-200/2.8 AFD. For a bit more you can get a used 80-200/2.8 AFS. A new 180/2.8 AFS VR is going to more expensive (probably?) which brings it even closer to 70-200/2.8VR territory.

Don't get me wrong, I had a 180/2.8 and it was a wonderful lens but for the same price and almost the same size and a bit more weight you could get a 80-200/2.8. So the appeal is very small.

Oct 06, 2007 at 07:55 AM

photogny
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p.1 #4 · Primes! Has Nikon forgotten?

The appeal for fast wide-angles and mid range telephotos is not very small. A lot of photojournalists love the ability to isolate the subject at f1.4 or f1.2. Nikon has had a long time to update this gap in their lineup. Hope it's soon. 24/1.4 and 5d opens up new opportunities for night photography.

panos.v wrote:

Don't get me wrong, I had a 180/2.8 and it was a wonderful lens but for the same price and almost the same size and a bit more weight you could get a 80-200/2.8. So the appeal is very small.

Oct 06, 2007 at 08:31 AM

SnaggS
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p.1 #5 · Primes! Has Nikon forgotten?

Many of us don't own a zoom, and arn't interested in a zoom at any time in the future.

Don't get me wrong, I had a 180/2.8 and it was a wonderful lens but for the same price and almost the same size and a bit more weight you could get a 80-200/2.8. So the appeal is very small.

Oct 06, 2007 at 09:15 AM

johnnydanger
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p.1 #6 · Primes! Has Nikon forgotten?

Yup, Nikon has a lame selection of large aperture primes. A friend of mine just bailed on his D200, etc. because of the distinct lack of affordable full frame and wide angle large aperture glass.

Oct 06, 2007 at 09:17 AM

louis fusco
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p.1 #7 · Primes! Has Nikon forgotten?

johnnydanger wrote:
Yup, Nikon has a lame selection of large aperture primes. A friend of mine just bailed on his D200, etc. because of the distinct lack of affordable full frame and wide angle large aperture glass.

is that a joke, evey ai, ais, ai'd, D, G lens work on the d200... personaly i have a 30 f1.4 cost 400 euro, 50 f1.8 90 euro, 85 f1.4 700 euro, 105 f2.8 macro 450 euro,180 f2.8 130 euro. thats five lenses for less than 2k...

Oct 06, 2007 at 10:03 AM

snegron
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p.1 #8 · Primes! Has Nikon forgotten?

panos.v wrote:
I really don't understand why a 180/2.8 AFS VR is going to be any more successful than the current one. For less than the price of the current 180/2.8 you can get a mint 80-200/2.8 AFD. For a bit more you can get a used 80-200/2.8 AFS. A new 180/2.8 AFS VR is going to more expensive (probably?) which brings it even closer to 70-200/2.8VR territory.

Don't get me wrong, I had a 180/2.8 and it was a wonderful lens but for the same price and almost the same size and a bit more weight you could get a 80-200/2.8. So the appeal is very small.

There is a reason why the 180 is still in production, it is one of Nikon's greatest lenses! I have the 180 AF non D version and Nikon 80-200mm 2.8 AF D (non S version). My 80-200 has been repaired by Nikon because of faulty design (the crappy af/mf selector broke). While it is a sharp lens, the 80-200 is no where near the 180 in terms of sharpness and portability.

During the time my 80-200 was out for repairs I used my 180 for wedding work. It took a few minutes to get used to, but I quickly realized its merit. So much so, that my next weddings will be shot with primes (except for my 17-55mm 2.8). The newly serviced 80-200 is just dead weight for me now and the only reason I won't sel it is because the prices have dopped so much on it that I will end up taking a big hit on it. I will probably save it for when (if) my daughters take up an interest in photography. In the meantime it sits in its original case in a dark bag somewhere out of my way.

I do agree with you about the 180 being the best it can be at this time. By adding VR to it I'm sure that it will be bigger and heavier (look what happened to the 105 micro VR), and that would defeat the purpose of having a fast, sharp, lightweight medium tele. The only thing I would improve on the 180 is that I would add a protective rear glass element to protect the aperture blades and I would replace the wimpy integrated lens shade with a bigger detachable one.

Oct 06, 2007 at 10:28 AM

nikt
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p.1 #9 · Primes! Has Nikon forgotten?

A friend of mine just bailed on his D200, etc. because of the distinct lack of affordable full frame

Love it. He bailed on his D200 because of a distinct lack of affordable full frame. How exactly are those two decision connected? Bailed on Nikon maybe....

Oct 06, 2007 at 11:43 AM

Andre Labonte
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p.1 #10 · Primes! Has Nikon forgotten?

johnnydanger wrote:
Yup, Nikon has a lame selection of large aperture primes. A friend of mine just bailed on his D200, etc. because of the distinct lack of affordable full frame and wide angle large aperture glass.

Ah dude, that does not make sence. Aside from the fact that the D200 is a DX format camera (i.e. does not need FX format lenses) Nikon has a huge selection of such lenses; the lenses just don't have AF-S or VR but otherwise are top notch performers.

What Nikon is missing in their line-up is/are:

-- A wide angle tilt/shift (the 28mm PC is discontinued)
-- A super fast wide angle lens with AF (the 28mm f/1.4 is discontinued)

Yes, all of the older primes could be updated with AF-S and maybe VR for some of the short tele lenses. However, I think that Nikon is focusing on updating the highest demand lenses first and working their way down the "demand ladder". For instance

The demand for high quality zooms is much higher than it is for primes, except maybe in the long tele lenses. They started off with high-quality zooms that rival or beat the primes. 17-35 AF-S, 28-70 AF-S, 70-200AF-S, VR 200-400 AF-S VR etc. Then they covered a few selected primes lenses like the 200 AF-S VR, 300 AF-S VR, 85PC and the 105VR. More recently they covered the long teles 400, 500 and 600 with AF-S and VR along with some new zooms. It seems to me that most likely the shorter primes are next. So be happy and wait.

Oct 06, 2007 at 12:27 PM

eaglewolf
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p.1 #11 · Primes! Has Nikon forgotten?

I think it is interesting that Nikon releases three new primes and we say that Nikon has forgotten the primes. Ah, there just is no pleasing us! Give them time, they will get to what you are looking for. It would have surprised me if they updated every lens that needs it at the same time. So as Andre said, be patient - there's more out there available than most of us can afford. I suspect Nikon went with what would keep them in the game first, regardless of what some of us might think.

David

Oct 06, 2007 at 02:13 PM

AUnderwood
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p.1 #12 · Primes! Has Nikon forgotten?

One of the main reasons I won't go back to Nikon for a long time.

35mm 1.4 is one of my most used lenses easily.

There is NOTHING from Nikon that is like it. Sure there is if you want to use an old lens but I need something with fast AF and very very sharp wide open.

There are no fast wides from Nikon at all.

They need a 28mm replacement or better yet how about the same as Canon and go 24 1.4 and 35 1.4

Oct 06, 2007 at 02:22 PM

tjny
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p.1 #13 · Primes! Has Nikon forgotten?

Heard a new phrase on this thread today; affordable FF.
And I think it is in the cards in not too ditant Nikon future!

Oct 06, 2007 at 02:41 PM

eaglewolf
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p.1 #14 · Primes! Has Nikon forgotten?

AUnderwood wrote:
There are no fast wides from Nikon at all.

They need a 28mm replacement or better yet how about the same as Canon and go 24 1.4 and 35 1.4

I'd agree with that, though I mostly look for longer lenses. But you are right - fast, wide primes are a big hole in the Nikon lineup for those that need it. I'm confident we will eventually see this in the lineup if it is demanded by the users, but if you need it now Canon has it. Are you listening Nikon?

David

Oct 06, 2007 at 03:02 PM

grmedhat1
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p.1 #15 · Primes! Has Nikon forgotten?

johnnydanger wrote:
Yup, Nikon has a lame selection of large aperture primes. A friend of mine just bailed on his D200, etc. because of the distinct lack of affordable full frame and wide angle large aperture glass.

I love these stories. Someone goes out and buys a DX format camera body, and then gets rid of it because there are no, affordable, 35mm format, large aperture wide angle primes to go with it. Impulse purchase perhaps?

Oct 06, 2007 at 03:54 PM

Avi B
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p.1 #16 · Primes! Has Nikon forgotten?

Poor Nikon. Can't catch a break. People want lower noise. Coming soon. People want full-frame. Also coming soon. Now they want "affordable" full-frame. Bunch of crybabies....

Although there is a wide-aperture UWA prime "hole", wouldnt the 14-24 f/2.8 obviate the need for primes? Unless you want to be "portable", in which case you're probably not lugging around a 3.5lbs camera body anyway... But to each their own.

Oct 06, 2007 at 04:33 PM

AUnderwood
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p.1 #17 · Primes! Has Nikon forgotten?

2.8 isn't that fast.

A 2.8 zoom doesn't replace 1.4 or even 1.8. Not close.

Nikon didn't have only a few things going against them. The good news is that they are taking care of a few of them.

Better low noise performance
FF

Fine those are now taken care of BUT what about the lens lineup issues?

Lack of enough AF-S lenses
Lack of fast WA primes
Lack of a pro grade medium zoom with VR (like the 24-105 IS)

WHY......WHY.....WHY.....didn't NIkon make the new 24-70 2.8 with VR

?

Oct 06, 2007 at 05:17 PM

johnnydanger
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p.1 #18 · Primes! Has Nikon forgotten?

Geeze, you guys are a hard crowd. Let me rephrase... Minimal selection of AF large aperture lenses, none of which are wide because of a 1.5x crop. Oh and yeah... the only FF Nikon to allow wide angle at better than f2.8 is... unattainable as of yet and over $5k. That's plenty of reason to jump ship if you want large aperture, wide angle glass, and the useabilty of AF.

Oct 06, 2007 at 05:43 PM

johnnydanger
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p.1 #19 · Primes! Has Nikon forgotten?

Crap, the widest angle currently available Nikon f1.4 lense you can get is a ... 35 f1.4 MANUAL FOCUS lense which is a meager 53mm or so after a 1.5x crop. Wow. Outstanding. Nice selection.

Oct 06, 2007 at 05:47 PM

johnnydanger
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p.1 #20 · Primes! Has Nikon forgotten?

And one more thing. Yeah affordable full frame. You know, like a 5D for $2500 or a used one in mint condition like he picked up for $1900. That's a far cry cheaper than a $5k+ D3. So yeah affordable in comparison. And the reason? The lense selection allowed by a FF camera. Specifically large aperture lenses wider than 45mm equiv.

Oct 06, 2007 at 05:52 PM

grmedhat1
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p.1 #21 · Primes! Has Nikon forgotten?

This isn't rocket science folks. If you NEED certain gear, and Canon has it and Nikon doesn't, what's the problem? Seems there's a lot of gear head chest thumping going on with the my brand has more than your brand kind of thing.

Oct 06, 2007 at 06:31 PM

Andre Labonte
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p.1 #22 · Primes! Has Nikon forgotten?

johnnydanger wrote:
And one more thing. Yeah affordable full frame. You know, like a 5D for $2500 or a used one in mint condition like he picked up for $1900. That's a far cry cheaper than a $5k+ D3. So yeah affordable in comparison. And the reason? The lense selection allowed by a FF camera. Specifically large aperture lenses wider than 45mm equiv.

Dude, if you don't like what Nikon has, stop complaining about it and be happy with your Canon gear. And why would a Canon shooter like yourself be in this forum except to complain and troll? Where is that troll picture when I need it?

Oct 06, 2007 at 07:05 PM

AUnderwood
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p.1 #23 · Primes! Has Nikon forgotten?

only a wish list coming from me. I would love to come back to Nikon one day.

But being a mostly available light wedding photographer it leaves me with Canon as being the best option for now.

Oct 06, 2007 at 07:06 PM

johnnydanger
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p.1 #24 · Primes! Has Nikon forgotten?

You guys need to cool your jets. Holy cow. Did anybody notice the name of the thread

"Primes! Has Nikon forgotten?" That's what the whole thread is about. Lack of primes. I made an entry in response to the thread starter that supported my experience and a friends experience and I was ridiculed for 2 pages. Lovely. Nice hospitable crowd you have here. Sorry for supporting the pre-tense of the thread.

And I'm hardly complaining and yes I am happy with my Canon gear. Just stating fact and offering a situation in which someone else wasn't happy about the prime availability thing either.

And lastly: I'm trolling? What about the Nikon guy that started the thread? Why is someone's response that is inline with the thread topic trolling? WTF.

Enjoy your happy Nikon forum, sorry for offering my opinion.

Oct 06, 2007 at 07:12 PM

maxx9photo
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p.1 #25 · Primes! Has Nikon forgotten?

Seems that everyone forget about Zeiss, they released some primes like a year ago and they're wonderful line of lenses.

Oct 06, 2007 at 07:22 PM


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