40D AF Disappointment

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Alan321
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p.2 #1 · 40D AF Disappointment

Lucio, I agree with you that the 40D AF should have been better than previous bodies such as the 30D and 20D, but in my experience it was not. I put mine in for a service / checkup and have not got it back yet.

I also agree with others that it would be silly to expect 1D AF performance from a budget camera at least until after Canon has to deal with the D300, but too many people seem to have a mental block that says "40D AF cannot reasonably equal 1D AF therefore 40D AF cannot improve upon 20D AF". That logic is flawed at best. There is no justification for jumping on people who expect the 40D to perform better than a 30D or 20D, regardless of whether or not they have used a 1-series (the first response to the OP was "welcome" but the second was that he sounds like a troll).

The fact that some people are getting worse performance from their 40D than from their earlier cameras while others see a marked improvement implies to me that there may be some deficient or defective cameras out there. It's not as if Canon hasn't already established a precedant for this with their 1D3 or early 1D2 cameras. With this sort of history it is surely more appropriate in the first instance to sympathise with owners of substandard cameras rather than blame them for reporting a problem.

If my 40D comes back from Canon and performs better than it did before then I'll know I'm right. Otherwise I'll just know that the 40D is not for me. You'll hear either way but unfortunately I expect it will be at least another month before I get my 40D back.

- Alan

Edited on Oct 13, 2007 at 10:03 PM

Oct 05, 2007 at 05:36 AM

Alan321
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p.2 #2 · 40D AF Disappointment

redman wrote:

The focus of the MKIIN is still preferred by most Professional Canon shooters, especially those that have used it compared to other 1 series bodies.

... especially by those who have a defective 1D3 and those who can somehow use any camera correctly except the 1D3.

Having said that, The X0D seies and the 1 series bodies are VERY different. I believe that Canon will continue to improve the X0D series AF, but it will never be on par with a 1 series focus. Canon wouldn't be able to sell a $4000+ body if they made it that good on the X0D series!

In light of the new Nikon cameras Canon will have to follow suit. Even if the x0D AF is never on a par with the current 1Dx AF, it can still be fitted with the old 1D AF. Or maybe they could do it with the 6D instead. Either way, Canon will have to consider a drastic improvement in their pro-sumer camera AF system once the Nikon D300 is competing with them for new customers. That competition is significant because it seems that large numbers of photographers are making the jump from P&S to DSLR these days and Canon can't afford to let too many of them get hooked into the Nikon system forever - very few people change system once they have bought a collection of lenses.

- Alan

Edited on Oct 13, 2007 at 10:03 PM

Oct 05, 2007 at 05:46 AM

redman
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p.2 #3 · 40D AF Disappointment

Alan321 wrote:
redman wrote:

The focus of the MKIIN is still preferred by most Professional Canon shooters, especially those that have used it compared to other 1 series bodies.

... especially by those who have a defective 1D3 and those who can somehow use any camera correctly except the 1D3.

Having said that, The X0D seies and the 1 series bodies are VERY different. I believe that Canon will continue to improve the X0D series AF, but it will never be on par with a 1 series focus. Canon wouldn't be able to sell a $4000+ body if they made it that good on the X0D series!

In light of the new Nikon cameras Canon will have to follow suit. Even if the x0D AF is never on a par with the current 1Dx AF, it can still be fitted with the old 1D AF. Or maybe they could do it with the 6D instead. Either way, Canon will have to consider a drastic improvement in their pro-sumer camera AF system once the Nikon D300 is competing with them for new customers. That competition is significant because it seems that large numbers of photographers are making the jump from P&S to DSLR these days and Canon can't afford to let too many of them get hooked into the Nikon system forever - very few people change system once they have bought a collection of lenses.

- Alan

Agreed. I also believe that Nikon will never make the DX00 series AF as good as the D3 series!

Bob

Edited on Oct 13, 2007 at 10:03 PM

Oct 05, 2007 at 05:54 AM

Venus
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p.2 #4 · 40D AF Disappointment

40D AFonly slightly better than 20D/30D. Maybe Canon was being honest when they said only 30% more sensitive. 1 D series still better and understandably ... they must never allow a 'prosumer' grade camera to be better than their 'pro' models.. that's why they are so cheeky even to change the battery door to a plastic one - they could have stuck to their 20D/30D battery closing lids.. How calculating and disgusting! Who mades these decisions? What were their motives? Let's see what Nikon has done to their D300.

Edited on Oct 13, 2007 at 10:03 PM

Oct 05, 2007 at 06:56 AM

Indo Kasera
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p.2 #5 · 40D AF Disappointment

Venus wrote:
40D AFonly slightly better than 20D/30D. Maybe Canon was being honest when they said only 30% more sensitive. 1 D series still better and understandably ... they must never allow a 'prosumer' grade camera to be better than their 'pro' models.. that's why they are so cheeky even to change the battery door to a plastic one - they could have stuck to their 20D/30D battery closing lids.. How calculating and disgusting! Who mades these decisions? What were their motives? Let's see what Nikon has done to their D300.

Obviously, Canon marketing department!

Edited on Oct 13, 2007 at 10:03 PM

Oct 05, 2007 at 10:25 AM

Escaport
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p.2 #6 · 40D AF Disappointment

Hmmm, I shoot a lot of night soccer games with my 40D and have a really good hit percentage for fast action in low light. It has been a wonderful camera to me so far. I've had it a little over two weeks and have over 9k exposures on it already and couldn't be more happy with the AF.

Edited on Oct 13, 2007 at 10:03 PM

Oct 05, 2007 at 02:00 PM

Bmeister
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p.2 #7 · 40D AF Disappointment

So sorry you had a problem. I'm quite surprised because the AI Servo tracking on the 40D gave better (more accurate) results to me than an early 1DmkIII with a 400/f2.8 and 300/f2.8. The 40D AF is quite sensitive in Servo mode, but if there are no distracting background/foreground targets, it works extremely well for me. The best results are when I target using all 9 points but only after I first get my subject within the CENTER AF point, then initiate AF and let the 40D track it.

Edited on Oct 13, 2007 at 10:03 PM

Oct 05, 2007 at 02:08 PM

rockitman
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p.2 #8 · 40D AF Disappointment

I have been quite impressed so far with this camera. I normally use a 1D2N. Just got it two days ago and have been using it with the 300 2.8IS and the 2x convertor on birds. It's not the 1D2N in the servo focus dept, but is very good. I like how you can set the option to show the focus point on the image when chimping on the lcd in the field. Very helpful and useful feature.

Edited on Oct 13, 2007 at 10:03 PM

Oct 05, 2007 at 02:29 PM

gbee
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p.2 #9 · 40D AF Disappointment

Delighted to hear this.

Currently, IMO the MKIIn is the top of the Canon Hill, the peak of its prowess. Your AF problems sound familiar to the new MK3 too.

I hope you didn't sell your MKIIn?

Lucio Gomes wrote:
Hi everyone, Just joined FM and wanted to start by whining about the AF on my 40D. AF is very "nervous" and gets thrown off really quickly compared to my
1D MkIIn.

Edited on Oct 13, 2007 at 10:03 PM

Oct 05, 2007 at 03:03 PM

gbee
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p.2 #10 · 40D AF Disappointment

Well he hooked you anyway heeheee

geniousc wrote:
Sure sounds like a troll to me!!!

Edited on Oct 13, 2007 at 10:03 PM

Oct 05, 2007 at 03:06 PM

Alan321
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p.2 #11 · 40D AF Disappointment

rockitman wrote:
I like how you can set the option to show the focus point on the image when chimping on the lcd in the field. Very helpful and useful feature.

That can be done on the 1D2 in the info mode, but the image is then pretty small on the LCD.

Also, I think you might find that the 40D, like the 1D2 and others, does not show the actual AF sensor that achieved focus when using AI Servo mode, but instead shows which AF sensor(s) were selected by you. There may be a difference. In One Shot mode they show the sensors that actually achieved focus.

- Alan

Edited on Oct 13, 2007 at 10:03 PM

Oct 05, 2007 at 03:39 PM

rockitman
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p.2 #12 · 40D AF Disappointment

Alan321 wrote:
rockitman wrote:
I like how you can set the option to show the focus point on the image when chimping on the lcd in the field. Very helpful and useful feature.

That can be done on the 1D2 in the info mode, but the image is then pretty small on the LCD.

Also, I think you might find that the 40D, like the 1D2 and others, does not show the actual AF sensor that achieved focus when using AI Servo mode, but instead shows which AF sensor(s) were selected by you. There may be a difference. In One Shot mode they show the sensors that actually achieved focus.

- Alan

Thanks for the info. I generally use only the center point, so it's interesting to see if it's on the spot I wanted during action shoots with birds, ect. Had no idea I could do that on the 1D2N. I kinda stumbled upon it with the 40D playing with settings.

Edited on Oct 13, 2007 at 10:03 PM

Oct 05, 2007 at 04:25 PM

sonton2003
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p.2 #13 · 40D AF Disappointment

Sounds like Canon is having all sorts of focus issues, I hope you guys get your camera's fixed soon.

Edited on Oct 13, 2007 at 10:03 PM

Oct 05, 2007 at 06:40 PM

geniousc
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p.2 #14 · 40D AF Disappointment

sonton2003 wrote:
Sounds like Canon is having all sorts of focus issues, I hope you guys get your camera's fixed soon.

Yes this is the second issue I have heard about with the 40D on FM out of possibly hundreds sold. I wouldn't exactly call it an epidemic yet. Actually, I am thrilled to death with mine, it does everything I have expected it to particularly for a $1300 camera and I have run lots of focusing tests. For the price paid it is exceptional in my book.

If the D300 has a failure rate like what I am seeing here it will be an exceptional camera too. Everytime I get the urge to switch I take a look at the lens lineup and happily come back to Canon. Besides the fact that Canon are the poster boys when it comes to service.

Edited on Oct 13, 2007 at 10:03 PM

Oct 05, 2007 at 07:57 PM

Montrealer
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p.2 #15 · 40D AF Disappointment

40D = $1299
1D MkIII = $4499

I would expect there would be some differences ! Although I've had the 40D for a month, no problems whatsoever.

A few years ago I bought a new car. Later that week, the "check engine" light came on, intermittently. Also, the trunk didn't close without really slamming it. Although I was slightly annoyed, instead of going on the internet and complaining about it, I brought it back to the dealer and complained to them instead. They acknowledged and fixed the problem. It never happened again. I have now bought 4 cars from this same manufacturer. I understand that although they have the highest standards of quality, there may be problems, and that is why there are WARRANTIES.

I keep reading these forum posts where people are complaining about issues they should take up with the dealer or Canon directly. Lucio, if your lcd has a purple cast, send the darn thing back ! I mean, I know it's annoying and so on, but come on, theses things happen.

Edited on Oct 13, 2007 at 10:03 PM

Oct 05, 2007 at 08:14 PM

SeanH
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p.2 #16 · 40D AF Disappointment

Lucio Gomes wrote:

I totally understand that a 40D is not a MkIIn; but all the talk about the "greatly improved AF"
was what enticed me to buy this camera. That, along with the higher frame rate, made me think that I could "replace" the MkIIn with the 40D, and save my money to get the new "6D" to finally have a full-frame camera.
Maybe I am a little sloppy in my technique, having had the benefit of AF tracking sensitivity
and focusing point expansion of the 1D series I don't need to be ON the subject all the time.
I just couldn't believe the camera had such a hard time focusing in the shade, even with
an f2.8 lens, while the MkIIn handled it so easily.

And what about the purple cast in the LCD? I read somewhere that a guy had a greenish
cast on his MkIII LCD.

Overall the 40D is a very nice camera, though, and Live View is awesome!

LMAO.......you sound like me. I'm having the exact same thoughts. But remember it's not a Mk2N..........as much as we would like it to be, it's not.

.....and your not crazy regarding the LCD, I returned one because of that. The second was much better. But turn it up to one notch below full, that was close to the histogram plus it makes some of the purple cast go away.

Edited on Oct 13, 2007 at 10:03 PM

Oct 05, 2007 at 11:13 PM

geniousc
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p.2 #17 · 40D AF Disappointment

After checking the OP's website, I have to eat some crow. He is a skilled photographer who is well qualified to complain about his camera.

Edited on Oct 13, 2007 at 10:03 PM

Oct 06, 2007 at 01:09 AM

stan_g
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p.2 #18 · 40D AF Disappointment

You have the KING of focus in the MkIIn. I now have a MkIII and it does what Jim remarked about the III. I had a MkII and focus was fast, on the mark most of the time and wasn't fussy. The new crop of canons seem to need getting used too and a more miticulous style. The focus on the IIn was the result of 5 generations of that focus system. Eos3, 1V, 1D, 1DmkII and 1DmkIIn. Had each except the IIn and all quite amazing..

Edited on Oct 13, 2007 at 10:03 PM

Oct 06, 2007 at 01:48 AM

monochrome
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p.2 #19 · 40D AF Disappointment

Alan321 wrote:

If my 40D comes back from Canon and performs better than it did before then I'll know I'm right. Otherwise I'll just know that the 40D is not for me. You'll hear either way but unfortunately I expect it will be at least another month before I get my 40D back.

- Alan

Why do you say that you expect another month? Have they told you something? Or is that how long things work over there?

Edited on Oct 13, 2007 at 10:03 PM

Oct 06, 2007 at 02:34 AM

Lucio Gomes
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p.2 #20 · 40D AF Disappointment

Montrealer,

The reason forums like this exist is for people like us to exchange ideas and information so that we can confront the manufacturers with a loud voice! There's strength in numbers.
If enough of us experience problems with the equipment we buy, then shout about it all over the internet, the corporations will have to pay attention. I'm sure Canon would not be racking their brains trying to fix the MkIII's AF bug had it not been for sites like this sounding the alarm that there was a defect with the new camera. I know a few people who are checking FM and other sites hoping to read that the AF problem has been resolved before they cough up $4500.
I wanted to see if I'm the only one with a problem camera, or if others who bought a 40D had had similar experiences with their cameras.
It really sucks to send a brand new camera in for service, especially if the manufacturer is
"slow" to admit there could be something wrong with their product.
After reading that some people sent their MkIII bodies to Canon and got them back still "sick," I wonder what they would tell me if I sent mine to Canon Irvine...

Edited on Oct 13, 2007 at 10:03 PM

Oct 06, 2007 at 04:51 AM

Alan321
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p.2 #21 · 40D AF Disappointment

monochrome wrote:
Alan321 wrote:

If my 40D comes back from Canon and performs better than it did before then I'll know I'm right. Otherwise I'll just know that the 40D is not for me. You'll hear either way but unfortunately I expect it will be at least another month before I get my 40D back.

- Alan

Why do you say that you expect another month? Have they told you something? Or is that how long things work over there?

So far they have had my 40D for almost 3 weeks and my 1Ds2 for just over 5 weeks. Neither is ready yet but my dealer is trying to speed things up for me. My 1D2 took two months plus a week and my 100-400 lens took three months less a week. Both of those work far better after the service than they did before, so I know the problems were not just my imagination or my technique. The 1Ds2 had exactly the same symptoms as the 1D2 had so at least I'm confident that it can be fixed. Previously I had a 28-135 serviced and it took about three months but that was by a local repair centre and not Canon proper. Still, my average Canon turn-around time over the past year is two and half months for pro-grade gear, and four weeks plus for the uncompleted jobs. I suspect they need a few more technicians

I also suspect that there are too many CPS members jumping the service queue. My gear cost just as much but is not as important.

- Alan

Edited on Oct 13, 2007 at 10:03 PM

Oct 06, 2007 at 02:44 PM

geniousc
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p.2 #22 · 40D AF Disappointment

Alan321 wrote:
monochrome wrote:
Alan321 wrote:

If my 40D comes back from Canon and performs better than it did before then I'll know I'm right. Otherwise I'll just know that the 40D is not for me. You'll hear either way but unfortunately I expect it will be at least another month before I get my 40D back.

- Alan

Why do you say that you expect another month? Have they told you something? Or is that how long things work over there?

So far they have had my 40D for almost 3 weeks and my 1Ds2 for just over 5 weeks. Neither is ready yet but my dealer is trying to speed things up for me. My 1D2 took two months plus a week and my 100-400 lens took three months less a week. Both of those work far better after the service than they did before, so I know the problems were not just my imagination or my technique. The 1Ds2 had exactly the same symptoms as the 1D2 had so at least I'm confident that it can be fixed. Previously I had a 28-135 serviced and it took about three months but that was by a local repair centre and not Canon proper. Still, my average Canon turn-around time over the past year is two and half months for pro-grade gear, and four weeks plus for the uncompleted jobs. I suspect they need a few more technicians

I also suspect that there are too many CPS members jumping the service queue. My gear cost just as much but is not as important.

- Alan

Alan,

As a way of comparison, I took 2 lenses in last Tuesday, they called Thursday afternoon telling me they could be picked up, yes that is less than 4 days. This is Canon Irvine in Ca. they did a great job BTW. My heart bleeds for you, that really stinks. They must be sending them back to Japan or something. Maybe you can look into sending your repair work to the US, the shipping cost may be worth it.

gene

Edited on Oct 13, 2007 at 10:03 PM

Oct 06, 2007 at 02:58 PM

Alan321
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p.2 #23 · 40D AF Disappointment

Thanks Gene. The gear has to cross the country to Sydney for service. I've read mixed accounts of service everywhere, including the US, but 4 days turnaround is very favourably impressive ! However, here it takes half a week to get a confirmation that they have the gear and then you hear nothing until it is finished or they need money or you make an enquiry. My dealer was confident that I'd have my 1Ds2 back in a week or two. I thought "dream on" and unfortunately I was right. It got delayed by an "urgent job". And then the tech was away for a week. And now another week has passed. Soon they'll be waiting for the parts they need. (now you might sense that I'm feeling rather negative again)

It's not just the speed of service (although the techie is probably doing all he can reasonably do), it's also the fact that my last three cameras have all needed service. I bought the 1Ds2 because I couldn't trust the 1D3 to work reliably, but I seem to have this special winning way with most high-tech gear. The 40D seemed like a good idea at the time but works worse than my 20D. I expected better from it. Not 1D2 performance, but an improvement over the 20D. The Canon reps were not sympathetic so I missed out on a speedy swap for a new one. I'd only had it a few days.

I'm also miffed that I have missed out on using my 1Ds2 for the short-lived but very pretty wildflower season here. But, them's the breaks. At least I can whinge about things here on FM without getting abused by very many people

As Lucio said, it's good to whinge - it lets others know that all is not necessarily well out there in camera land, and that it might pay to test everything you buy as soon as you can.

- Alan

Edited on Oct 13, 2007 at 10:03 PM

Oct 06, 2007 at 03:23 PM

trenchmonkey
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p.2 #24 · 40D AF Disappointment

I'll suggest trying the following...
Disable AF button. Shoot AF center point, AF Servo, * button for AF, and it'll track
just fine w/wo TC's. Locks on like a 'monkey on a cupcake.

(Personally I'd exhaust ALL shooting options before starting a thread like this,
OE can impact others buying /selling decisions. The possibility you got a
bad body exists, however mine wasn't real good 'til I set it up properly for BIF)

Edited on Oct 13, 2007 at 10:03 PM

Oct 06, 2007 at 03:37 PM

Netgarden
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p.2 #25 · 40D AF Disappointment

Interesting, this being discussed in a few posts at Dpreview also.
Myself, experiencing this in distant birds in flight. It's very sensitive, and I do get more keepers with my 20D.

second 40D body. When it does focus it's excellent. But I do throw away a higher percentage. I do need to change my style I believe. As I have not found any focus choices to aleviate the problem. I'll try the focus lock next.

The purple/blue tones are noticeable too. More with some lenses. The older lenses like the 100-400 that are slightly greener do well negating the lavender whites in the 40D.

People keep saying don't expect MKII performance, but all we ask for is 20D quality?

Again, when it focuses and contrasts properly its a great camera especially on larger targets. I think birders are more disappointed and most who don't shoot in higher speeds and do fast shooting don't even notice the rpoblem. Birders are disappointed though because the 40D was hopefully an answer to an upgrade for maximum distance with their lenses.

Edited on Oct 13, 2007 at 10:03 PM

Oct 06, 2007 at 04:16 PM


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