Lens for snow sports and mountaineering

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Archive 2007 · Lens for snow sports and mountaineering

F Constantin
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p.1 #1 · Lens for snow sports and mountaineering

Allo,

I am looking into purchasing a zoom lens for my backcountry expeditions and snowboarding pictures.
I have been debating on the 70-200 f2.8 or the f4. The main question is that since the snow is so reflective, is it necessary to go for the quicker glass?

Also, is it worth considering the newer IS versions (if I will be using a monopod,etc.) , when the first gen. are selling for $400 now?

Comments and suggestions are very much appreciated.

Sep 18, 2007 at 03:25 PM

Hammy
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p.1 #2 · Lens for snow sports and mountaineering

The snow is probably not your subject, so for the fact that it might be blown out in proportion to your subject is not a matter of lens aperture - just proper exposure reading.of your subject.

What f/2.8 gets you over f/4 is less depth of field. That can be a good thing, or a bad thing - depending on your camera, subject and style. And with that extra stop - will you ever need/want it for other subjects: lower light situations?

IS only has the ability to grant the photographer some leeway from hand hold shake/vibration. It can allow you to shoot 1-2 (3?) stops slower in shutter speed and overcome the shooters ability to hold the camera still over that time.

What this is good for is again, low light situations and/or panning shots. Otherwise, most intent when shooting sports is to get a faster shutter speed - IS doesn't do that, aperture and ISO do.

Good luck...
Hammy.

Sep 18, 2007 at 05:29 PM

Alistair Watson
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p.1 #3 · Lens for snow sports and mountaineering

Personally I love my 70-200/2.8 IS, it is fast, has a wide aperture, lovely bokeh and IS when I need it. I prefer having 2.8 even though I don't always use it, the same can be said of IS.

For you, weight might be more of an issue so the 70-200/4 IS might be a better choice, ok you lose a bit of DoF but the exposures in snow are going to be challenging enough to keep you busy and for the pictures you are looking for there probably isn't going to be much difference between f2.8 and f4. Just my 2p worth.

Sep 18, 2007 at 06:23 PM

Nowhere Man
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p.1 #4 · Lens for snow sports and mountaineering

I find the 70-200 works great for the snowboarding, but also I love to get really close up on the jumps with super wides like the 15mm fish and 16-35. The unique angles, starburst sun and saturation of color from shooting so close seem to have a lot more interest than the far away tight cropped shots from the 70-200. That's my opinion though.

As Hammy said...the reflective nature of snow is all about getting the exposure correct, and not about faster lenses.

IS will help some if your hand-holding all the time. I hand hold mostly in the snow as I try to keep my gear light. I also will bump up to ISO 400 or even 800 in a blizzard if I have to, in order to maintain faster shutter if that's the look I am wanting that day.

Sep 18, 2007 at 06:26 PM

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p.1 #5 · Lens for snow sports and mountaineering

I'm a skier/climber as well. I would say that if you're doing actions shots (IE - skiing/boarding), the IS probably isn't worth it due to the speed of the athletes. If you're doing mountaineering/rock climbing I've lately been reading that a 25-70 lens or something of that nature is pretty good for everything.

-fool

Sep 19, 2007 at 12:39 AM

Richard Nye
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p.1 #6 · Lens for snow sports and mountaineering

The 70-200 f/4 is MUCH lighter and more compact than the f/2.8. I'd save some money and get the 70-200 f/4 NON IS. And a wide angle lens sounds great too. I'll bet you can catch some awesome shots with a WA.

Sep 19, 2007 at 03:43 AM

mtbakerskier
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p.1 #7 · Lens for snow sports and mountaineering

Get the 70-200 F2.8L dont wast your money on the IS version. The f4 version is just too slow.

Here is what I normally have in my bag, and is what I tour with everyday:

14mm F2.8
15mm F2,8
17~35 F2.8L
24-70 F2.8L
70~200 F2.8L IS
1.4L

I also have the 90 TSE, 300 F2.8L and the 2xL but neither of those finds there way into the pack without a specific shot in mind.

Grant Gunderson

Sep 19, 2007 at 05:14 AM

jmcfadden
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p.1 #8 · Lens for snow sports and mountaineering

Grant

the 14 And the 15? sheesh man you a glutton for punishment. Those things are heavy!

J

Sep 19, 2007 at 05:18 AM

mtbakerskier
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p.1 #9 · Lens for snow sports and mountaineering

jmcfadden wrote:
Grant

the 14 And the 15? sheesh man you a glutton for punishment. Those things are heavy!

J

Not if your in shape.

I work in a VERY competitive field, so a little bit of extra weight is worth having more options.

Sep 19, 2007 at 05:22 AM

Chris Marshall
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p.1 #10 · Lens for snow sports and mountaineering

My main lens for ski and snowboard photography (as well as most anything else) is the 70-200 2.8L IS. This lens is on be camera about 80% of the time. The f4 version I'm sure is a great lens and you can't go wrong with either lens. Most of the photos on my website have been taken with the 70-200. Feel free to check out the results. Camera used for the photos are a 1D and a 1D MKII. Still waiting for Canon to come up with a fix for my MKIII!?!?! Hope the photos and info help you.

www.chrismarshallphotography.com

Chris.

Sep 19, 2007 at 05:28 AM

fool
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p.1 #11 · Lens for snow sports and mountaineering

mtbakerskier wrote:
Get the 70-200 F2.8L dont wast your money on the IS version. The f4 version is just too slow.

Here is what I normally have in my bag, and is what I tour with everyday:

14mm F2.8
15mm F2,8
17~35 F2.8L
24-70 F2.8L
70~200 F2.8L IS
1.4L

I also have the 90 TSE, 300 F2.8L and the 2xL but neither of those finds there way into the pack without a specific shot in mind.

Grant Gunderson

Good to see another (camera) maggot on FM. Thanks for the info on your setup. Carrying it all in a Dakine Sequence?

-fool

Sep 19, 2007 at 11:48 AM

F Constantin
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p.1 #12 · Lens for snow sports and mountaineering

Thank you all for your input.

I currently have a wide-mid angle zoom, but was looking for more variety.
I realise I can always be shooting right beside the riders or climbers.

I appreciate your input as it was hard to decide on a lens for the changing action and variable light in the mountains.

Can't wait for the snow!

Sep 19, 2007 at 12:41 PM

DubRepublic
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p.1 #13 · Lens for snow sports and mountaineering

I have a question to pipe in. What bag are you folks using in the snow? I have the Burton Zoom Pack. Wondering if there is something better out there. It doesn't seem deep enough for a 30D with the grip attached.

Sep 19, 2007 at 12:48 PM

4x4rock
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p.1 #14 · Lens for snow sports and mountaineering

I just got a Dakine camera pouch that is deep enough for the 1D MK II and several lenses. I'm thinking of using it in the Burton Distortion "skateboarding" bag.

Back to the question, if you can carry the weight then the 70-200/2.8 is the one to get, otherwise the f4 will do. I assume you will not shoot at f2.8 much and most of the time you'll be outside in pretty good light.

A 70-200/f4 and a 10-22 Tokina 12-24/Sigma 10-20 sound great.

Sep 19, 2007 at 03:26 PM

mtbakerskier
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p.1 #15 · Lens for snow sports and mountaineering

DubRepublic wrote:
I have a question to pipe in. What bag are you folks using in the snow? I have the Burton Zoom Pack. Wondering if there is something better out there. It doesn't seem deep enough for a 30D with the grip attached.

I used to use a dakine sequence, but now use an Osprey pack that I had modified. Currently I am product testing a new line of bags by a new company called Fstop. They look promissing.

Sep 19, 2007 at 03:29 PM

Film_Ruled
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p.1 #16 · Lens for snow sports and mountaineering

Lens for snow or mountaineering? Hmmm...I have never really thought of it that way.

To start, I do that kind of work for a full time living. I have used any and all combinations of any of my 24 lenses or 8 camera bodies inbounds, in the back country or what ever have you.

I often use a 70-200 2.8 with or without a converter for ski / snowboard shots. If I am climbing a ton, I use a 16-35 and a 85 1.8 in combo or if I want to go real light in super cold weather in which I will be mostly climbing and only pulling the camera out for the money shot, I use either a Leica M6 with a 28/2 and 50/1.4 or a Nikon FM3A with a 20/3.5, 45/2.8 and 105/2.5.

I have also used a Fuji GSW690III, Hasselblad Xpan and other gear for snow and mountaineering.

This season, my D3 and D300 will replace the Canon line up as a perfect tandem setup for using with the FM3A rigs....finally, the right system again..:-)

So you see, snow does not matter, mountaineering does not matter, the image you want to make is what matters.

Sep 19, 2007 at 03:36 PM

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p.1 #17 · Lens for snow sports and mountaineering

mtbakerskier wrote:
I used to use a dakine sequence, but now use an Osprey pack that I had modified. Currently I am product testing a new line of bags by a new company called Fstop. They look promissing.

Lets hope they have room for avi gear, food, first aid kit, water, clothing, etc. Out of the possible 14 packs I will put camera gear in, only two are Lowe-pro type, photo nerd only type packs. It's like these guys make packs thinking that all we ever need out there is camera gear.

For what it is worth, I just did 6 peaks in the San Juans and Sangre De Cristio ranges. I used a sweet new Osprey Talus 33 litre. I had a full 100 oz. camelbak, harness, runners, other climbing gear, clothing and my two lens, one camera set up easily reachable and pulled from my handy home made semi-padded stuff sacks.

When it comes to packs from photo companies that I can actually use for all my needed gear, I will believe it when I see it....

Sep 19, 2007 at 03:45 PM

mtbakerskier
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p.1 #18 · Lens for snow sports and mountaineering

Film_Ruled wrote:
mtbakerskier wrote:
I used to use a dakine sequence, but now use an Osprey pack that I had modified. Currently I am product testing a new line of bags by a new company called Fstop. They look promissing.

Lets hope they have room for avi gear, food, first aid kit, water, clothing, etc. Out of the possible 14 packs I will put camera gear in, only two are Lowe-pro type, photo nerd only type packs. It's like these guys make packs thinking that all we ever need out there is camera gear.

Thats why the Dakine Sequence is the industry standard for ski photogs. You can carry a full load of camera gear plus all of your avy safety gear in addition to an extra layer or two and h20 and food.

The lowe-pro bags suck for skiing as they are not designed to ski very well and are not very durable.

Grant Gunderson.

Sep 19, 2007 at 04:53 PM

JohnJ80
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p.1 #19 · Lens for snow sports and mountaineering

I shoot a lot of alpine ski racing. My favorite lenses for that are the 70-200 f/4 and the 135 f/2.

Size is a big issue if you intend on doing a lot of skiing at the same time. The f/2.8 version of the 70-200 is just too big and heavy. I've never missed f/2.8 on the race course. In fact, it is hard enough to deal with all the light with all that snow around on a sunny day.

I've looked at the DaKine Sequence and don't really care for it. The big problem if you are shooting where it is steep and slippery is taking the bag off and then watching it want to take off downhill.

There really isn't anything good (bag-wise) and that probably is reflected in the DaKine's popularity. However, the new LowePro Primus is probably the perfect bag to date for this since you can access the camera without having to take it off and put it down. I'm going to pick one of these up this fall before the snow flies. Failing that, the Think Tank Photo Changeup should be excellent as well.

Lowepro Primus:

This image is copyrighted by the owner

Think Tank ChangeUp

This image is copyrighted by the owner

Sep 19, 2007 at 07:25 PM

mtbakerskier
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p.1 #20 · Lens for snow sports and mountaineering

JohnJ80 wrote:
I shoot a lot of alpine ski racing. My favorite lenses for that are the 70-200 f/4 and the 135 f/2.

Size is a big issue if you intend on doing a lot of skiing at the same time. The f/2.8 version of the 70-200 is just too big and heavy. I've never missed f/2.8 on the race course. In fact, it is hard enough to deal with all the light with all that snow around on a sunny day.

I've looked at the DaKine Sequence and don't really care for it. The big problem if you are shooting where it is steep and slippery is taking the bag off and then watching it want to take off downhill.

There really isn't anything good (bag-wise) and that probably is reflected in the DaKine's popularity. However, the new LowePro Primus is probably the perfect bag to date for this since you can access the camera without having to take it off and put it down. I'm going to pick one of these up this fall before the snow flies. Failing that, the Think Tank Photo Changeup should be excellent as well.

.

Oh really

Sep 19, 2007 at 08:22 PM

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p.1 #21 · Lens for snow sports and mountaineering

Have you tried the 70-200 f/4 IS? If you haven't you ought to. Sharper than the 70-200 f/2.8 when stopped down to f/4 and lighter to boot and half the weight.

The pack thing of having to take it off, get the stuff out, put it back on, shoot, and then reverse is a pain on the side of steep and icy race courses. It isn't the DaKine in particular I don't like, it is the the current crop of back packs out there. Being able to get at your stuff without taking it off is going to be the winner (when they get that right).

J.

Sep 19, 2007 at 08:43 PM

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p.1 #22 · Lens for snow sports and mountaineering

mtbakerskier wrote:
Thats why the Dakine Sequence is the industry standard for ski photogs. You can carry a full load of camera gear plus all of your avy safety gear in addition to an extra layer or two and h20 and food.

The lowe-pro bags suck for skiing as they are not designed to ski very well and are not very durable.

Grant Gunderson.

That is a great bag, I almost got it last year, but once again it is for basically photo only excursions, it is **way** too padded and photo specific. If you click on the "additional photos" link on the following page, you will see that there is too much photo gear and padding in there and not enough room for the more important stuff:

http://www.dougsports.com/detailsdetails.php?i=12682

As an outdoor pro, I have found my best shots come from being involved with an activity that is not created for photo opportunities, when it is best if I leave the camera packed until the money shot comes out. If I go out on a photo specific outing with a pack like that full of gear, I am often left behind by the patrollers and members of the expedition.

Famed mountaineer and designer / engineer Neal Beidleman and I are working on some systems to get real solutions for mountain pros, it is coming along good...

Sep 20, 2007 at 01:12 AM

Film_Ruled
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p.1 #23 · Lens for snow sports and mountaineering

mtbakerskier wrote:
Oh really

??

I dont know of a SINGLE photographer that is regularly working with the larger ski mags that use the F4 version..... That says a lot to me.

Secondly, the Lowe-pro packs dont ski very well, and do not have any room for avy geat etc... Secondly taking the dakine pack off on a steep slope isnt much of an issue at all. Just takes a bit of cordination.

1. Not all of us work full time for the ski mags, some of us are paid mongo from advertising and stock. I am also top tier for the Aspen Ski Company, my personal back yard.

2. When I get my D3 and D300, I am going to be looking for an alternative to the heavy 70-200 2.8.

3. Taking a pack off *is* a complication on steep slopes. For example, when on course at World Cup, if you must take off your pack, you must be able to put it "On belay" before it leaves your back so it does not take off down the slick course. I personally carry an ice screw, 6 inch webbing and a carabiner since guys take up the banner stands pretty quick and I like to move.

Everyone is diifferent, you have to figure we all have different needs. I think you make some good points, but lets not harp on someone who thinks different than you.

Sep 20, 2007 at 01:21 AM

JohnJ80
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p.1 #24 · Lens for snow sports and mountaineering

Film_Ruled wrote
That is a great bag, I almost got it last year, but once again it is for basically photo only excursions, it is **way** too padded and photo specific. If you click on the "additional photos" link on the following page, you will see that there is too much photo gear and padding in there and not enough room for the more important stuff:

http://www.dougsports.com/detailsdetails.php?i=12682

As an outdoor pro, I have found my best shots come from being involved with an activity that is not created for photo opportunities, when it is best if I leave the camera packed until the money shot comes out. If I go out on a photo specific outing with a pack like that full of gear, I am often left behind by the patrollers and members of the expedition.

Famed mountaineer and designer / engineer Neal Beidleman and I are working on some systems to get real solutions for mountain pros, it is coming along good...

That's been my other solution - the regular non -photo backpack. They seem to work better for carrying the other stuff (extra layer, chow, water etc...) but not as well for the camera gear. Being a patroller, I've got tons of that sort of stuff. Neither approach so far works very well and has been really quite frustrating for me. When I'm out, its for the entire day usually.

I'm very interested to see what you are working on. I'd LOVE to have a solution that made sense, was tight to your body for skiing (like BCA stuff), had good hydration support and had room for both camera gear AND mountain gear. The big differentiator is if you can get at the camera gear without taking the whole thing on and off.

BTW, I've done the ice screw set up too - holds things well, but it is one more thing to futz with too.

Please let us know when you have something you can show us.

J.

Sep 20, 2007 at 03:58 AM

mtbakerskier
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p.1 #25 · Lens for snow sports and mountaineering

Film_Ruled wrote:

1. Not all of us work full time for the ski mags, some of us are paid mongo from advertising and stock. I am also top tier for the Aspen Ski Company, my personal back yard.

2. When I get my D3 and D300, I am going to be looking for an alternative to the heavy 70-200 2.8.

3. Taking a pack off *is* a complication on steep slopes. For example, when on course at World Cup, if you must take off your pack, you must be able to put it "On belay" before it leaves your back so it does not take off down the slick course. I personally carry an ice screw, 6 inch webbing and a carabiner since guys take up the banner stands pretty quick and I like to move.

Everyone is diifferent, you have to figure we all have different needs. I think you make some good points, but lets not harp on someone who thinks different than you.

Say hi to Metcalf for me. He will remember me from his Powder days....

Anyways, I'm not harping on you if you think differently than I do... hey thats what keeps life interesting.... but I do find it hard to beleive that some one shooting snow sports has an issue taking a backpack on and off on a steep slope. It's really not that difficult, and imop having a pack that actually skis well is worth any hassel of taking it on and off.

I have found that having a pack that skis well, with most of the weight closser to your back is more imporant than the weight of the pack. With a well designed pack that skis well I can easily keep up and shoot with any athletes. But if you are skiing with a lighter pack that distributes the weight father from your body it isnt going to ski as well and you will be a lot slower. Gaurenteed.

As far as the 70~200 F4 Vs F2.8 the F2.8 has several advantages, namely it lets in more light wich allows for faster and more accurate AF in lower light situations. Plus it is sharper at the F4~F5.6 range than the F4 version. Wich is very important to me since most ski imagery is shot @ F4~5.6

Sep 20, 2007 at 05:17 AM


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