1D3 shortcomings NOT AF

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brainiac
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p.5 #1 · 1D3 shortcomings NOT AF

Looking more closely at the 'Save settings on media' option, Canon's disdain for intelligent interface design is even more evident.

You can only save settings to the card you are currently using to store images. Worse, you can only load settings from a card which is currently set to record images. This is a usability disaster because saving settings to, and loading settings from an unused card would avoid the settings being removed when you have filled up your other card with images.

Let's say I have put in a small SD card to store my settings for a whole 12-hour job. I will be saving images onto my CF cards and filling them quickly. To load settings first I have to switch to the SD card, then read the settings, then switch back to CF. Try it, and see how quickly you can do it. I have a feeling my subjects aren't going to hang around that long. The only alternative is to key in the saved settings every time I fill a card and insert a new one. The 1D3 has no effective way of storing a camera setup. It's appalling. Do professionals want this?

Edited on Oct 04, 2007 at 12:13 PM

Sep 23, 2007 at 11:39 AM

brainiac
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p.5 #2 · 1D3 shortcomings NOT AF

So here is the shortest sequence of actions required to achieve the same thing as turning the 5D mode dial to C:

press menu
navigate to 'Register/Apply basic settings' using the joystick
move your thumb to the set button since clicking the joystick straight in doesn't effect selection of the chosen option (why, oh why, oh why?)
press set
move big wheel to 'apply', but do not go past it or you will hit 'register'
move thumb to set button and press
move thumb back to big wheel and scroll right to hit 'ok' so the camera knows you really meant the last command
wait a second for settings to load
switch your attention to the top plate to check your iso
stretch your index finger over to the illumination button so you can see iso
press the iso button with your index finger
turn the big wheel to your chosen iso

Note that you have used 5 different control devices to perform AT LEAST 9 clicks, and maybe more. Note also that the first menu you encounter usually requires use of the joystick, unless you happen to be on the right screen. The second menu, confusingly, doesn't take input from the joystick. You just have to know that. The third screen isn't so much a menu as a dialogue, which doesn't take input from the joystick, but unlike the second screen, it doesn't loop (thankfully). The last stage in the process requires you to look at the top plate instead of the screen on the back. The process is baroque in its intricacy, but Dadaist in its structure. Try talking to your subject while you're doing all that.

Edited on Oct 04, 2007 at 12:13 PM

Sep 23, 2007 at 12:06 PM

brainiac
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p.5 #3 · 1D3 shortcomings NOT AF

...and this all raises another fundamental interface flaw. The joystick. A brilliant interface device capable of carrying out a huge range of functions. Unless you cripple it. Why the f* does the joystick not ALWAYS allow menu/button navigation? Why the f* does clicking the joystick straight in not choose the selected option? Honestly, why did they bother with a joystick if they couldn't be bothered to make it actually work?

Edited on Oct 04, 2007 at 12:13 PM

Sep 23, 2007 at 12:29 PM

Pixel Perfect
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p.5 #4 · 1D3 shortcomings NOT AF

brainiac wrote:
...and this all raises another fundamental interface flaw. The joystick. A brilliant interface device capable of carrying out a huge range of functions. Unless you cripple it. Why the f* does the joystick not ALWAYS allow menu/button navigation? Why the f* does clicking the joystick straight in not choose the selected option? Honestly, why did they bother with a joystick if they couldn't be bothered to make it actually work?

Clearly they need to hold somethings back for the 1D IIIN. Imagine the marketing when the 1D IIIN comes out with working AF, hi-res LCD, AF in live view and a functional joystick.

Edited on Oct 04, 2007 at 12:13 PM

Sep 23, 2007 at 02:50 PM

brainiac
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p.5 #5 · 1D3 shortcomings NOT AF

Clearly they need to hold somethings back for the 1D IIIN.

Do people believe this? Or is it just that the 1-series interface team are retards? Inquiring minds want to know.

Edited on Oct 04, 2007 at 12:13 PM

Sep 23, 2007 at 03:21 PM

XsigmaSD
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p.5 #6 · 1D3 shortcomings NOT AF

brainiac wrote:
Clearly they need to hold somethings back for the 1D IIIN.

Do people believe this? Or is it just that the 1-series interface team are retards? Inquiring minds want to know.

Yea, that would be the only two options. (HEAVY sarcasm there)

So you are having problems with the camera interface in your shooting situations, must be an evil plot against you, or everyone on the design team is mentally handicapped. Give it a break, we get it, you don't like the camera. Voice your opinion to Canon and see what they do with it. Personally attacking the engineers that designed it is a little overboard.

Edited on Oct 04, 2007 at 12:13 PM

Sep 23, 2007 at 03:31 PM

Chefdaniel
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p.5 #7 · 1D3 shortcomings NOT AF

I completely agree that the 1md3 lacks in it's ability to AWB like the 5d. I really was not expecting this at all. This and the joystick completely piss me off about this camera. I honestly thought coming from the 5d , this "break-through" camera would offer addition exception features. Not throw away all the great features of other great canon DLSR's in the past.

AWB sucks
LCD needs some improvements as well

Edited on Oct 04, 2007 at 12:13 PM

Sep 23, 2007 at 03:41 PM

brainiac
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p.5 #8 · 1D3 shortcomings NOT AF

>...So you are having problems with the camera interface in your shooting situations, must be an evil plot against you...

This is a $4500 camera. THE latest and greatest. For pros. People who have to work in a hurry, and who take time to learn the cameras functions and interface really well so they can do just that. $4500. $5000 if you're outside the US. It's not a plot, it's a badly designed camera interface, in the one camera where you wouldn't expect to see such.

>Personally attacking the engineers that designed it is a little overboard.

Who is responsible for a nine-click 'load saved settings'? Your evil plot comment suggests that you think I am paranoid, and therefore at fault. The interface engineers built this interface and they are responsible for it. I think they should be sacked.

>Yea, that would be the only two options. (HEAVY sarcasm there)

If you have other explanations for the broken joystick and the absence of a usable version of 'save camera settings', I am all ears.

Sorry to sound confrontational about this, but I really feel that too many people are willing to make excuses for poor interface design. We can only stop it being a Windows world if we actually know how it could be better, and ask for it to be so.

Edited on Oct 04, 2007 at 12:13 PM

Sep 23, 2007 at 03:59 PM

XsigmaSD
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p.5 #9 · 1D3 shortcomings NOT AF

brainiac wrote:
>...So you are having problems with the camera interface in your shooting situations, must be an evil plot against you...

This is a $4500 camera. THE latest and greatest. For pros. People who have to work in a hurry, and who take time to learn the cameras functions and interface really well so they can do just that. $4500. $5000 if you're outside the US. It's not a plot, it's a badly designed camera interface, in the one camera where you wouldn't expect to see such.

>Personally attacking the engineers that designed it is a little overboard.

Who is responsible for a nine-click 'load saved settings'? Your evil plot comment suggests that you think I am paranoid, and therefore at fault. The interface engineers built this interface and they are responsible for it. I think they should be sacked.

>Yea, that would be the only two options. (HEAVY sarcasm there)

If you have other explanations for the broken joystick and the absence of a usable version of 'save camera settings', I am all ears.

Sorry to sound confrontational about this, but I really feel that too many people are willing to make excuses for poor interface design. We can only stop it being a Windows world if we actually know how it could be better, and ask for it to be so.

I tried a couple weeks ago to figure out how many people on here actually own a MkIII, best I could tell, about 100 or so. If this camera is as big of a disaster as you make it sound, seems like more than 50 people would be piling on here to scream along side you about what a useless piece of manure it is. OK, so the interface doesn't work for you, it must work for some of us, can you admit that? I haven't missed a single shot because of the interface since I took it out of the box. I get paid everyday to get my MkIII out of its case, it hasn't failed me yet, paid for itself many times over already.

Peace Out! (meaning I've said my piece)

Edited on Oct 04, 2007 at 12:13 PM

Sep 23, 2007 at 04:24 PM

brainiac
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p.5 #10 · 1D3 shortcomings NOT AF

I am sorry to be boring you, XsigmaSD, but my posts here have been about specific issues with the camera, which have been carefully described, and which are corroborated by other posters. As I said, twice, earlier in the thread, there's lots to like about this camera, but that's not really what this thread is about. I'm really pleased you like your camera, but I presume you are not saying that your joystick works for anything but moving across the initial menu screen or that there is a usable way of saving and re-using camera settings. You don't rely on those features, and that's fine. That doesn't excuse the specific shortcomings that this camera has relative to Canon's much cheaper offerings.

Edited by brainiac on Sep 23, 2007 at 08:25 PM GMT

Edited on Oct 04, 2007 at 12:13 PM

Sep 23, 2007 at 04:34 PM

Ron Hew
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p.5 #11 · 1D3 shortcomings NOT AF

Looks like 1Ds3 is another failure as it is about 99% similar in terms or UI with 1D3

Edited on Oct 04, 2007 at 12:13 PM

Sep 23, 2007 at 05:16 PM

brainiac
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p.5 #12 · 1D3 shortcomings NOT AF

Looks like 1Ds3 is another failure as it is about 99% similar in terms or UI with 1D3 :D

The 1Ds3 seems to be aimed at more painstaking types of photography, for example studio, landscape, or architecture. Such uses are less likely to demand rapid movement of the focus point, or frequent switches between sets of camera settings, so I doubt that those two problems will be as obstructive to typical 1Ds3 users. It's not an excuse though.

Edited on Oct 04, 2007 at 12:13 PM

Sep 23, 2007 at 06:35 PM

Valerie S
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p.5 #13 · 1D3 shortcomings NOT AF

brainiac wrote:
Sorry to sound confrontational about this, but I really feel that too many people are willing to make excuses for poor interface design. We can only stop it being a Windows world if we actually know how it could be better, and ask for it to be so.

We're not making excuses, our preferences and priorities are different than yours. It seems like this isn't the right camera for you. Perhaps the 5D or if there's a follow up to it, is really the best camera to meet your desires and preferences.

My father's Ferrari doesn't have power steering. I took it out to get some sushi and parallel parking was a nightmare! My VW has power steering! What were those crazy Italians thinking of when they made that car?

Edited on Oct 04, 2007 at 12:13 PM

Sep 23, 2007 at 06:57 PM

johnnydanger
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p.5 #14 · 1D3 shortcomings NOT AF

I like the 1D Mk III, but I disagree that "our preferences and priorities are different". There is no excuse that a camera that has what... 160 custom functions or some crap, and can custom control virtually every setting on the camera doesn't have some basic ease of use things. There is no reason for certain things on the 1D3 to be so difficult. Just because your father's Ferrari doesn't have power steering is irrelevant in that there is probably a high-speed performance reason for it, whereas there is no reason that certain things on the 1D3 are poorly implemented.

I was a bit shocked to find that I couldn't do things on the 1D3 I can do on my 5D. Obviously they're different cameras with different purposes, but still. Just because it's a techno-whiz camera doesn't mean that it needs to be poorly executed and overly complex for simple tasks.

Edited on Oct 04, 2007 at 12:13 PM

Sep 23, 2007 at 08:07 PM

brainiac
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p.5 #15 · 1D3 shortcomings NOT AF

A friend of mine did a secretarial course. They had a 2 minute speed test and at the end the supervisor said "count your letters, then divide by 5, and divide again by 2 to get your words per minute". My friend said "wouldn't it be easier to divide by ten?". Supervisor said it wasn't the same. My friend used a calculator to demonstrate that it was. Instead of thanking him for his time-saving insight the supervisor said "that's not how we do it here".

>Just because your father's Ferrari doesn't have power steering is irrelevant in that there is probably a high-speed performance reason for it, whereas there is no reason that certain things on the 1D3 are poorly implemented.

...and thank you Johnny for stating the point so clearly.

Edited on Oct 04, 2007 at 12:13 PM

Sep 23, 2007 at 08:17 PM

JDSA
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p.5 #16 · 1D3 shortcomings NOT AF

What an interesting thread. I'm liking my 1D Mark II N more and more each day even though the IQ is inferior to the Mark III, the 40D and the 5D. Even with the goofy, mindless double button pushing the N seems to be a more sensible product than the "feature-laden" Mark III.

Edited on Oct 04, 2007 at 12:13 PM

Sep 24, 2007 at 01:46 AM

ashwinrao1
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p.5 #17 · 1D3 shortcomings NOT AF

Had mine mine 1 month....loved it for the most part....then, the Err 99....now, it's a brick/paperweight/what have you! It's on its way to Canon tomorrow.

Edited on Oct 04, 2007 at 12:13 PM

Sep 24, 2007 at 03:43 AM

brainiac
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p.5 #18 · 1D3 shortcomings NOT AF

There is a new thread about massive overexposure during fast sequences here: http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/574310

I have seen this problem mentioned in quite a few places. It makes me wonder if this problem isn't a sister of the focus tracking problem, i.e. camera electronics/timing can't keep up with the frame rate. If the camera tried to meter when the mirror hadn't returned fully you could easily see an exposure like this.

However, this is probably best discussed on the AF problems thread.

Edited on Oct 04, 2007 at 12:13 PM

Sep 24, 2007 at 10:17 AM

brainiac
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p.5 #19 · 1D3 shortcomings NOT AF

>...then, the Err 99....now, it's a brick/paperweight

Sorry to hear that. Err 99 apparently means general hardware fault :(

Edited on Oct 04, 2007 at 12:13 PM

Sep 24, 2007 at 10:35 AM

brainiac
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p.5 #20 · 1D3 shortcomings NOT AF

I am sorry to say I went to a job today and the 1D3 stayed in my bag while the trusty 5D ratcheted up another 1500 great images. The main reason I didn't use it was the lack of usable C-mode. Looks like there could be a brand new 1D3 up for sale soon.

Edited on Oct 04, 2007 at 12:13 PM

Sep 25, 2007 at 11:48 PM

Daniel K
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p.5 #21 · 1D3 shortcomings NOT AF

I would just sum it all up in the sense thata you can make some customers happy and yet others will always want MORE MORE MORE!!!

Hey, I over exposed a photo by 2 stops during a wedding (one of those quick moments you have to capture, no set up time) and when I brought the exposure down in bridge I was amazed at how much detail remained! Almost NO posterization at all!!!!!! the film like Latitude on the sensor alone make me love this mark 3. and maybe these problems you state dont occur to me since I always shoot in manual or av mode and never really bother with all the bells and whistles, just a few of them.

How about being happy you have a kick butt camera

, some others that want and deserve this camera cant have it for whatever reasons.

Edited on Oct 04, 2007 at 12:13 PM

Sep 27, 2007 at 06:13 PM

johnnydanger
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p.5 #22 · 1D3 shortcomings NOT AF

More? Even the $1300 40D or the discontinued 30D has a C Mode that's instant to use without fiddling through too many menus and saving to the media. I shoot manual all the time and it's great having a useable C mode. Set it up for flash shots and then have a no-flash setting with correlated f-stop settings, etc. Allows quick changes for varying conditions.

All right, enough for beating a dead horse. My biggest complaint is the crop in all truthfulness. I got so used to FF on my 5D that I feel a bit constricted and odd with all these funky length lenses. Doh. That 1Ds Mark III is calling my name though... Hm.

Edited on Oct 04, 2007 at 12:13 PM

Sep 27, 2007 at 07:06 PM

brainiac
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p.5 #23 · 1D3 shortcomings NOT AF

What Johnny said.

And what Daniel said. The latitude is definitely an improvement.

I expect I will end up with 5D -> 1Ds3 -> 5D2...

Edited on Oct 04, 2007 at 12:13 PM

Oct 01, 2007 at 12:59 PM

SoundHound
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p.5 #24 · 1D3 shortcomings NOT AF

Gosh, I jumped from the 5D to the MkIII without a MkIIn in between-I guess ignorance is bliss.

Edited on Oct 04, 2007 at 12:13 PM

Oct 01, 2007 at 11:31 PM

brainiac
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p.5 #25 · 1D3 shortcomings NOT AF

A client has just asked if I can shoot an entire evening party without using flash at all. Looks like the 1D3 just got a reprieve, as I had already got my dealer to agree to take it back for a refund. Instead I'm ordering a manual focus screen and girding myself for a gruelling evening.

Canon has also contacted me in response to a long conversation during which I calmly explained the difficulties of using the camera in a fast moving event environment. The rep I spoke to agreed that the joystick focus-point control and incomplete camera settings memories are serious omissions. They have given me the email address of the rep at Canon UK who deals with pro photographer product feedback. Although it's unlikely, it's not impossible that one day the joystick will work. Maybe we can even get them to include iso in the 'basic camera settings'. If anyone wants to request these and other features please PM me and I will give you the email address. It would be great if someone in the US would find out who to complain to there.

Oct 04, 2007 at 12:13 PM


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