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Archive 2007 · DM3A, can we have one now please?

bellyface
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p.2 #1 · DM3A, can we have one now please?

the way I see it, if epson/cosina was able to fit all that technology into a rangefinder body, nikon can easily do it on a FM body. It's not impossible folks. I keep hearing that it is highly unlikely, but it is very possible. The epson takes a very small lithium battery, does not last very long, maybe 300+ raw shots, and no chimping on the LCD, but it works, sd cards are OK, keeps it smaller, it could be a situation where a couple button cells power the light meter, and a lithium ion batt will power the recording, lcd, etc., side. There will be a FM digital, trust me, the demand will be enormous. Look at the crowd after the leica m8, the epson R-D1... there is a niche market for this style camera, and I bet there is one for an FM style digital...

Sep 17, 2007 at 04:08 PM

Avi B
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p.2 #2 · DM3A, can we have one now please?

You can meter manually using the histogram on the D40. And you can use the aperture ring on it as well. I sold my 50mm f/1.8 series E to someone who is now doing just this.

So DM3a features so far:
- No LCD
- Shutter dial like the FM-series cams
- Manual focus
- DX-sized sensor at say even 6MP
- Match-needle or even just 3 LED metering with AI and later lenses
- Small rechargeable LiOn battery with low-batt LED
- Wind-up lever to allow you to recharge the battery
- PC sync outlet and simple hotshoe
- Price point -> $500 (why not, it's a niche product anyway)
- USB connection to allow the USB port to charge the batts as well! (just thought of that)

Since this post took so long to come up for me, the previous post has a great point, if relative Davids can do it, why can't the goliath Nikon?

Anyway, I think a product like this would sell like hotcakes. And Nikon can sell more lenses this way too! Especially the pricey primes. Seeing as how they're not updating to AFS that fast anyway

Sep 17, 2007 at 04:17 PM

dinoadventures
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p.2 #3 · DM3A, can we have one now please?

who would make a 6mpx DX sensor for this? Sony doesn't do that anymore. A Fuji SuperCCD would be great but that's unrealistic.

Sep 17, 2007 at 04:39 PM

bellyface
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p.2 #4 · DM3A, can we have one now please?

true, but up until earlier in the year sony was still producing the venerable sensor in the D100, for the epson R-D1s. I see your point though, most likely it will be a 10mpx sensor, or if anything the sensor in a plane jane D40, not X. Or take it a step further, LBCAST technology... a 4mpx virtually noiseless sensor.... mhhh... we know this is a nikon-born technology...

As far as price point, I doubt a $500 is possible. The FM3a sells, or last sold for $650-$900, I'd be ok with a $1500 manual digital camera, that seems more realistic. There would have to be an LCD, just for menu's alone, format, etc, but it should be flipable. The film rewind knob can be used for accessing the up down menu's, jus tlike on an pson R-D1. No other LCD's, everything else should be analog.

This is totally possible, and trust me, the other competitors will drop their jaws when they see how many will sell...

the retro thing will make a comeback. Rollei has brought back a miniature version of it's old rolleiflex, with a square CCD, albeit 3mpx, and smaller, but they at least are seeing there is a market for retro...

Sep 17, 2007 at 04:54 PM

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p.2 #5 · DM3A, can we have one now please?

Avi B wrote:
You can meter manually using the histogram on the D40. And you can use the aperture ring on it as well. I sold my 50mm f/1.8 series E to someone who is now doing just this.

So DM3a features so far:
- No LCD
- Shutter dial like the FM-series cams
- Manual focus
- DX-sized sensor at say even 6MP
- Match-needle or even just 3 LED metering with AI and later lenses
- Small rechargeable LiOn battery with low-batt LED
- Wind-up lever to allow you to recharge the battery
- PC sync outlet and simple hotshoe
- Price point -> $500 (why not, it's a niche product anyway)
- USB connection to allow the USB port to charge the batts as well! (just thought of that)

Since this post took so long to come up for me, the previous post has a great point, if relative Davids can do it, why can't the goliath Nikon?

Anyway, I think a product like this would sell like hotcakes. And Nikon can sell more lenses this way too! Especially the pricey primes. Seeing as how they're not updating to AFS that fast anyway

I'll add interchangeable focus screens to the wish list, but I guess Katz-eye would come through if Nikon doesn't.

Sep 17, 2007 at 05:36 PM

bellyface
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p.2 #6 · DM3A, can we have one now please?

there shouldn't be a shortage of focusing screens for this kind of camera. I'm not sure about the kinetic winding arm... although I can see the greatness to this type of power. I can see it using the existing fm3a architecture, so that would mean same ol' viewfinder reading. As for the DX thing, not sure how they would handle the lens compatibilty thing, aperture ring missing on the lenses, there are a few issues that would need to be worked out. I think omitting the USB completely would make it an even simpler system.

I can totally see this happening, if not as a classic nikon rangefinder, perhaps as a classic FM style or FA style body...

Even at $1500 - $2000 it would sell like hotcakes.

Sep 17, 2007 at 06:36 PM

dinoadventures
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p.2 #7 · DM3A, can we have one now please?

bellyface wrote:
true, but up until earlier in the year sony was still producing the venerable sensor in the D100, for the epson R-D1s. I see your point though, most likely it will be a 10mpx sensor, or if anything the sensor in a plane jane D40, not X. Or take it a step further, LBCAST technology... a 4mpx virtually noiseless sensor.... mhhh... we know this is a nikon-born technology...
As far as price point, I doubt a $500 is possible. The FM3a sells, or last sold for $650-$900, I'd be ok with a $1500 manual digital camera, that seems more realistic. There would have to be an LCD, just for menu's alone, format, etc, but it should be flipable. The film rewind knob can be used for accessing the up down menu's, jus tlike on an pson R-D1. No other LCD's, everything else should be analog.
This is totally possible, and trust me, the other competitors will drop their jaws when they see how many will sell...
the retro thing will make a comeback. Rollei has brought back a miniature version of it's old rolleiflex, with a square CCD, albeit 3mpx, and smaller, but they at least are seeing there is a market for retro...

I believe I heard the big reason the D40 went to the X was because sony discontinued the sensor. I really doubt they'd put LBCAST in something like this. I think they'd probably go for something more commonplace, but LBCAST does produce a rather film-like noise pattern... hmm...
I'd say $1500-1800 is what something like this would probably retail for due to the specialty nature. It probably would sell, but it would be a limited production run (think F5A).
Last I checked, Rollei discontinued their Minidigi model. It's a bit too pricey for the novelty that it is, but it sure is cool.

Sep 17, 2007 at 06:45 PM

bellyface
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p.2 #8 · DM3A, can we have one now please?

last I heard ritz was selling the mini-digis for $200, if you want the red leatherette, it's like $300... yeah, if this product surely be introduced, it most definitely be a limited edition, old nikkor MF lenses would become pretty popular again... this would be real nice, and yes, I'd pay $1800 for it... c'mon nikon you gotta come out with this!

Sep 17, 2007 at 06:58 PM

Avi B
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p.2 #9 · DM3A, can we have one now please?

Okay fine, leave out USB, it does make things simpler. I'm still up for the windup power tho! That would be so wicked! Maybe a monochromatic LCD for set up menu. But I say the thing should just store RAW, no displays otherwise (ie no pixel peeping...aww). Whatever Nikon uses on the D40, that's the sensor we want on there. Even at a $1500 price point people would buy this. I know $500 was kinda optimistic. It's not just about retro. It's about simplicity as well. Just simplify EVERYTHING!

Sep 17, 2007 at 07:05 PM

bellyface
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p.2 #10 · DM3A, can we have one now please?

how do we request such a creature from nikon? thats the next step...

Sep 17, 2007 at 07:17 PM

Avi B
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p.2 #11 · DM3A, can we have one now please?

Email them? Find out who the product manager for the D3 is, and then get his/her email and see what they have to say?

Gotta be careful to stay on the non-stalking side of the fence tho...

Sep 17, 2007 at 07:27 PM

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p.2 #12 · DM3A, can we have one now please?

I think part of the appeal of such a retro camera is that you'd have to keep fairly true to its FM roots. Which means no lcd screen. ISO is set around the 'rewind' crank, aperture set on the lens (no G lens for this baby), shoots only RAW so WB is done with traditional glass filters or in post, mechanical shutter cocked with the traditional film advance lever, mechanical self timer, and a CF card slot behind the 'film' door. (If its SD I'm not buying one. I hate those little buggers.

) In other words a camera that looks just like an FM. An FM2nD if you will.

Accessories? Power winder MD-12d to cock the shutter and a retro-speedlight perhaps.

Sep 17, 2007 at 07:54 PM

fixed point
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p.2 #13 · DM3A, can we have one now please?

grmedhat1 wrote:
shoots only RAW so WB is done with traditional glass filters or in post

Although I shoot RAW, I think it would be good to have the option of setting quality, WB etc. This could be done without a screen with a USB port on the camera and software to configure it through the computer. Or even without a USB port if there were a computer program included that could write settings onto a CF card and popping the CF card in the camera changes the settings.

Sep 17, 2007 at 08:35 PM

panos.v
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p.2 #14 · DM3A, can we have one now please?

So why not just buy a FM3A or F3 and a film scanner...same thing and probably will cost a lot less than a DM3A that sells a whole 10 cameras worldwide a month. Just look at how much the M8 costs.

Sep 17, 2007 at 08:40 PM

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p.2 #15 · DM3A, can we have one now please?

OK are we all luddites, Don't think it would be economical with a 35mm sized frame, that alone ads a grand plus to the price. Battery charging be rewind lever, don't think so to make an assembly strong enough for thousands of winds would be weighty and ugly. Never was a fan of match needle, liked my Gossen better ;-) but I also like my D200, far better meter than I ever had in a film camera. After a lot of practice I can focus even my 24mm on a D200, never had problems with telephotos, try focusing a D70 at 1:1, I have to do this a lot, a better screen would be nice. I want an LCD for the histogram, a great advantage of digital, don't throw eveything out. I do prefer the top shutter speed dial, but you can set the ISO, or are we calling it ASA, by a button and dial. If we don't watch out we will get as many dials as a Minolta 7D. CF cards definitely. Curse Cosina/Epson for only making 2000 RD1s for rich collectors. Praise Cosina for their Voightlander lenses.
Good luck to everyone, we are going to need it to get someon to produce this camera. It definitly is a nitch product.

Tom

Sep 17, 2007 at 08:42 PM

bellyface
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p.2 #16 · DM3A, can we have one now please?

ok, here's a link to the virtual R-D1 page, you get an idea of the simplicity, what the Fm3ad can be capable of... look at the dials, speed setting, iso...

http://www.epsonrd1.co.uk/virtual/virtual_en.html

Sep 17, 2007 at 08:46 PM

grmedhat1
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p.2 #17 · DM3A, can we have one now please?

panos.v wrote:
So why not just buy a FM3A or F3 and a film scanner...same thing and probably will cost a lot less than a DM3A that sells a whole 10 cameras worldwide a month. Just look at how much the M8 costs.

We are dreaming about a digital FM_. Scanners, FM3A and F3s already exist. Don't wake us up just yet.

Sep 17, 2007 at 08:52 PM

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p.2 #18 · DM3A, can we have one now please?

bellyface wrote:
ok, here's a link to the virtual R-D1 page, you get an idea of the simplicity, what the Fm3ad can be capable of... look at the dials, speed setting, iso...

http://www.epsonrd1.co.uk/virtual/virtual_en.html

Interesting camera.

Ok....how about a digital Nikon S rangefinder?

Sep 17, 2007 at 09:06 PM

Avi B
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p.2 #19 · DM3A, can we have one now please?

tomm101 wrote:
OK are we all luddites, Don't think it would be economical with a 35mm sized frame, that alone ads a grand plus to the price. Battery charging be rewind lever, don't think so to make an assembly strong enough for thousands of winds would be weighty and ugly. Never was a fan of match needle, liked my Gossen better ;-) but I also like my D200, far better meter than I ever had in a film camera. After a lot of practice I can focus even my 24mm on a D200, never had problems with telephotos, try focusing a D70 at 1:1, I have to do this a lot, a better screen would be nice. I want an LCD for the histogram, a great advantage of digital, don't throw eveything out. I do prefer the top shutter speed dial, but you can set the ISO, or are we calling it ASA, by a button and dial. If we don't watch out we will get as many dials as a Minolta 7D. CF cards definitely. Curse Cosina/Epson for only making 2000 RD1s for rich collectors. Praise Cosina for their Voightlander lenses.
Good luck to everyone, we are going to need it to get someon to produce this camera. It definitly is a nitch product.

Tom

D200 or D2 sized VF is a must for this camera... But no LCD or only a monochrone one, as that consumes gobs of battery power. Remember, we're trying to simplify here, and keep the form factor similar to a FM.

Although after looking at that link, I'd say that why not take the internals of the D40, and stick it in a FM-sized body?

That would do nicely. Just allow metering with AI lenses.

Sep 17, 2007 at 09:34 PM

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p.2 #20 · DM3A, can we have one now please?

Since we're dreaming.

I would just rather see Nikon concentrate on releasing something more people would (and could) afford to buy. Like a brilliant compact camera.

Something along the lines of the 4/3rds system, and E-410 camera. Something with a smaller., not larger sensor. Thecamera would be smaller due to the fact the mirror assembly would be small, it would comsume less power.

Nikon keep making these little compacts like the P5100 (and the 8400 a few years ago) with extention lenses, let 'em design a new format (CX) and mount system for the compacts.

Half the size of the current DX sensor with say 7MP and a couple nice little lenses to go with it. An 24-72mm (FX equiv) standard, and an 18mm and a 105mm lens.

Something around the size of my Oly C-7070 with a wide lens would be a real treat for street shooting. At the touch of a button, the new system would automaticaly put the camera into 'Quite mode', raise the shutter, and set the lens to its hyperfocal distance. Sweeeet!

In fact, all the above, without the mirror would be fine.

Thats it, I've just talked myself into making one with my McGyver Survival Kit.

Sep 18, 2007 at 02:14 AM

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