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 p.3 #8 · Small manual digicam w/personality? (Ricoh GR Digital?) | |
Simon Hughes wrote:
I don't think you can necessarily compare the engineering involved in what you'd like to see with a small digital to that which goes into comparable-sized film cameras, they're simply two very different things.
I didn't say that they were.
Simon Hughes wrote:
As far as market size, I'm going to have to disagree with you. Compared to the market that buys the existing products en masse, we are simply much too small a segment to be financially feasible for the research, engineering manufacturing and support effort. Again, if it were feasible, we'd have these products.
We will just have to disagree. Just because we don't see it, does not mean it is not feasible. With such logic we would never have any new products. Further, small niche segments have existed quite profitably and successfully in the camera market for decades, and can do so in digital. These things do not cost that much to build anymore, and there are now many, many OEM producers who can crank out cameras or components or sub-systems for small producers. Costs are way down and chip prices continue to fall. Total costs of digital camera use are now lower than what they were for film.
Again, I think you are overestimating the "research" that is required. Quite frankly all the "research" is done. It's all a matter of systems integration (engineering) at this point -- integrating systems that they already know how to successful build and design.
Simon Hughes wrote:
The closest we've come to a (released) niche product was the Epson R-D1, which, for all it's foibles was a wonderful piece of gear. Where is it now though? Three words: not enough market. Leica, with the M8 is another, but not without problems and an uncertain future, even with a strong captive (rangefinder) market.
I'm not talking about the R-D1 and M8 market segment for digital interchangeable lens rangefinder cameras -- and neither is anyone else in this thread. That is a much different market segment. Further, each of these cameras was their respective makers first attempts at an integrated professional digital camera system. No one's first attempt is without problems. And while the M8 had some initial teething problems it is a success and a quite capable performer. But let us be clear, these are quality, large-sensored, digital, compact P&S cameras we are talking about, not interchangeable lens system cameras.
Simon Hughes wrote:
No one seriously believes that what we want is impossible, it's simply unfeasible. As others have pointed out, no manufacturer will cannibalize it's existing, major money making lines with competitive product. Canon, for example, dropped RAW from the G7. Why? To force buyers to the next tier.
As i suggested, I don't think it will cannibalize their other product lines much atall and if you think through it logically, it will allow them to sell more cameras at higher average margins. As I indicated, if it indeed does cannibalize their cameras, the effect is small instead filling mostly demand unmet in the market, but if it does it will takes sales from the whole market not just the manufacturer's own. The potential market effect due to cannibalization, while small, is actually positive for the manufacturer. Further, these cameras will be cheaper to make than an entry-level DSLR and sell for more ($1000+), and have dramatically higher margins than other, more common, small-sensor P&S's. In short, it will make them more money and produce higher returns.
Simon Hughes wrote:
Like it or not, it's all about ROI, especially with the bigger corporations. You'd have to have a) an clear (read "enormous") market need and b) an overwhelmingly appropriate device to secure that market against competition.
I'm not saying it isn't about ROI -- and that is true of both bigger and smaller companies. There is certainly a "clear" market need here, and while not enormous, these cameras will certainly sell in significant and sufficient numbers (probably in numbers similar to many products actually on the market now) and do so quite profitably. And let us be clear, for the first manufacturer to come out with one, there is NO competition and if competition does develop it will always be limited for the niche becuase it is relatively small and most of the competition in the niche will occur on quality and features rather than on price. These are not bulk, mass-market commodities we are talking about -- and they don't have to be to be successful. They just have to meet a need at a price customers are willing to pay and that is not only "feasible", but quite do-able.
I think we will just have to disagree and wait and see how things develop.
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