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Archive 2007 · Anyone recommend a 100mm f/2 semi macro?
  
 
Stu Warner
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p.1 #1 · Anyone recommend a 100mm f/2 semi macro?


This is my first thread. Very exciting. Sorry if I inadvertently make any faux-pas regarding unwritten FM protocols.
Ah, cool, I like smileys

Anyway, I'm aiming for a 24/50/100/200 all-prime setup on Canon EOS. The 24 is the 24/1.4L and the 200 is the 200/2.8LII (that I use with a 2xTC when I need the length), and I have no complaints whatsoever with either lens. However, I need a good 100mm and a good 50mm, and I can't see exactly what I want in the Canon line-up. So I turn in frustration and despair to this forum for advice on alternatives.

At the moment I have a Sigma 50/2.8 macro, which is a peach of a lens, but perhaps not optimal for macro or for low-light. It captures quite a bit more background than a telephoto macro, and it has a short working distance that in all practicality limits the amount of extension tubes I can add to go beyond 1:1. It's also pretty slow for a 50 prime. By now you are probably thinking that I should get a 100 or 105 macro, and swap my 50 macro for a fast 50 . I would agree, if it weren't for me also wanting an extra stop at 100mm. I LOVE shallow DOF work generally, and for portraits in low light especially.
So I am not only tempted by the a 100/2.8 macro, but I am also very tempted by Canon's EF 100/2, even though this doesn't focus very close at all and sits right in the range I would like to have occupied by a macro lens . I suppose I could add extension tubes for reasonable close-ups, but I wouldn't even be able to get to 1:1 reproductions, never mind beyond that. On the other hand, the 100/2.8 macro looses a full stop to the 100/2. Not only does this reduce it's use in low-light, but it won't give me the subject isolation and non-distracting bokeh I crave.

So, I am starting to look at non-Canon lenses. Does anyone know of any good 100/2 semi-macro lenses that I could use with an adaptor? I would be happy to sacrifice AF at this focal length for closer focussing. Image quality is my premium concern, especially smooth tonal tranisitions and bokeh, so I want luurvely lens coatings and bundles of aperture blades. Incidentally, if anyone has such a lens, do you use it exclusively on a tripod to focus wide open with a bright VF and then stop-down, or do you have a good technique for hand-holding with flash? Please share if you do, as I prefer monopod (+flash if necessary) rather than tripod.

As far as the Canon range is concerned, I can't really see a worthy replacement for my 50mm, which is already very nice wide open at f/2.8. The EF 50/1.4 comes closest, but only really starts to perform from f/2 onwards, which only gives me one extra stop usability. I have not seen many pictures at all from the EF 50/1.4 that impress me below f/2, and even the handful I do like are B+W conversions presumably done to remove the terrible halation and lack of micro-contrast at these wide apertures. I've also heard a lot of reports about AF inaccuracy with this lens, how it isn't ring USM etc, etc but those are secondary concerns – I'd be happy to use manual focus. The 50L is a bit out of my price range right now (I'm waiting for the 2nd gen 5D), and setting aside the mixed early reports on its performance, it is pretty heavy for a walk-around 50mm. It seems to me like most fast 50s are not that great performing wider than f/2. Any exceptions?

Sorry for asking so many awkward questions. I am perhaps trying to have my cake and eat it at 100mm, but it is such an important focal length that I cannot image none of the manufacturers have produced something that provides the compromise I want.

Many thanks for any thoughts or suggestions – I'm going around in circles over this…
and fear that before long I will be substituting smileys in place of standard punctuation

PLEASE
HELP
ME
:worried:

Jun 13, 2007 at 02:56 PM
MichaD
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p.1 #2 · Anyone recommend a 100mm f/2 semi macro?


There's the Zeiss ZF 100/2 Macro. It's not really available yet and only goes to 1:2 but expectations for it are high.
I recently got the Voigländer 125/2.5 Macro. It is discontinued now but was manufactured by Cosina which are contracted by Zeiss to build the ZF Lenses. It goes to 1:1 and shouldn't have that much more DOF than a 100/2 plus it features auto-aperture in native EOS mount (no AF, but who needs that? ) which is a great help for my macro work.
Can't really judge the lens fully from the little use it got so far but it has very creamy bokeh, is sharp from wide open with low contrast and seems to be a true APO design.

Jun 13, 2007 at 03:19 PM
Stu Warner
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p.1 #3 · Anyone recommend a 100mm f/2 semi macro?


A new zeiss 100/2? Sounds expensive... but yeh, that's exactly the kind of thing I'm looking for.

The 125/2.5 is maybe a little long, and not as fast as I would like. Is it reasonably priced (assuming I can find one)? When you say "auto-aperture", does that me it stops down to the aperture you set when you release the shutter? If so, that is very nice indeed. However, it is maybe a little too close to the Sigma 150/2.8 macro, which I understand to be a nice lens also, but one I have rejected due to it being too heavy and too close to my 200/2.8L.
I don't want to sell my 200.

Thanks for the thoughtful response MichaD. I will look into both of these lenses.

Jun 13, 2007 at 03:57 PM
pdmphoto
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p.1 #4 · Anyone recommend a 100mm f/2 semi macro?


I was in a similar frame of mind for a while and then finally decided on a Zuiko 90/2 macro lens. The focal length doesn't change at the macro end so there is a good amount of working distance. It only goes to 1:2, but I can use a combination of tube/close up filters/TC for for more magnification or to change the working distance. The optics are superb, especially at the wide apertures.

Jun 13, 2007 at 04:18 PM
Emanuele_C
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p.1 #5 · Anyone recommend a 100mm f/2 semi macro?


There's also the Olympus OM 90mm F2 macro. I do not own one but it seems to perform very well. Here u'll find some valuable informations, I'm sure. Price is around 700-1.000USD, depending on lens status.

Ciao,

Emanuele

Edited by Emanuele_C on Jun 13, 2007 at 05:24 PM GMT

Jun 13, 2007 at 04:20 PM
Emanuele_C
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p.1 #6 · Anyone recommend a 100mm f/2 semi macro?


Paul, we've posted at the same time!

Jun 13, 2007 at 04:20 PM
jvarszegi
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p.1 #7 · Anyone recommend a 100mm f/2 semi macro?


I'd get the Canon 100mm f/2.8 macro for macro, and Canon 100mm f/2 for everything else. You must already know that DOF at f/2.8 will be almost ridiculously shallow for macro work. You'll get the benefit of autofocus on both lenses, and both are very reasonably priced. You could also get the macro and Canon 85mm f/1.8, giving you more leeway on your 20D than the 100mm f/2 in low light for portraits.

Jun 13, 2007 at 04:27 PM
MichaD
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p.1 #8 · Anyone recommend a 100mm f/2 semi macro?


The Zeiss is EUR 1400 at the Zeiss shop, certainly not a cheap offer.
https://photo-shop.zeiss.com/Products/1424-665

The Voigtländer used to go for USD 600, currently they seem to be more like 800-900. But you'll have to search for it in Japan, Hong-Kong or similar.

Both lenses are not exactly lightweight, the Voigländer with 690g, the Zeiss with 680g. Both are built exceptionally well with full metal construction.

With auto-aperture I mean just that. It has electronic contacts and an EMD. All auto-exposure modes work like they should. Manual focus confirmation works as well.

edit:
here's still one for just over USD 600
http://shashinki.com/shop/voigtlander-macro-apolanthar-125mm-free-worldwide-shipping-p-28.html

Jun 13, 2007 at 04:31 PM
jonboring
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p.1 #9 · Anyone recommend a 100mm f/2 semi macro?


i can recommend the CZ 100 2.8 Makro Planar. one of the best CZ lenes.

see http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/540338/0

Jun 13, 2007 at 06:09 PM
jjlphoto
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p.1 #10 · Anyone recommend a 100mm f/2 semi macro?


There is also the Contax Zeiss Makro Sonnar 100/2.8-N (auto focus). The N mount can be converted to the Canon mount by http://en.conurus.com/about.html

Jun 13, 2007 at 06:21 PM
EricH
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p.1 #11 · Anyone recommend a 100mm f/2 semi macro?


The canon 100mm macro is really excellent and one of canon's better lenses. The AF is swift and accurate - I don't think this would disappoint you especially it will be half the price new of some of the other lenses used plus you'll have the AF.

Jun 13, 2007 at 06:37 PM
Stu Warner
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p.1 #12 · Anyone recommend a 100mm f/2 semi macro?


I think the CZ Makro is out of my reach at the moment but does sound on paper like it will be fantastic. No doubt there will be a lengthy waiting list once it starts to ship. How many of you are keeping an eye on that one?

But to be honest, the OM Zuiko 90/2 looks to be the one for me. In fact, it looks absolutely perfect for what I want. Decent magnification, good performance wide open, and not too heavy or expensive.
My first SLR was an inherited OM1, so I have absolute faith in their products too.

I've tried to Google the Zuiko 90/2 but can't seem to find any. Anybody know where I can get hold of one?
And can anyone recommend a good OM->EOS adapter, preferably with focus confirmation (though not essential).

Happy days.


Jun 14, 2007 at 07:58 AM
Stu Warner
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p.1 #13 · Anyone recommend a 100mm f/2 semi macro?


I still can't find one on the internet. Looks like I'll have to check the local shops for used items.
Are there any websites I should keep an eye on, in addition to e-bay?


Thanks again everyone, some very useful information here, and a few different lenses for me to look at.

Jun 14, 2007 at 12:49 PM
 



Justin D
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p.1 #14 · Anyone recommend a 100mm f/2 semi macro?


www.keh.com is excellent (and I'm from Australia)

Jun 14, 2007 at 01:05 PM
jvarszegi
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p.1 #15 · Anyone recommend a 100mm f/2 semi macro?


How about the 100mm f/2.8 macro from Canon, and 100mm f/2 prime? Performance might be even better, and you'd have autofocus and a warranty. The only thing it would take is giving up a cherished notion of shooting with a third-party lens.

Jun 14, 2007 at 03:25 PM
molson
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p.1 #16 · Anyone recommend a 100mm f/2 semi macro?


The Zuiko 90mm f2 macro gets a lot of praise, but I prefer the Zuiko 100mm f2, which has ED glass and focuses to about 15-18 inches (can't remember the exact figure).

Jun 14, 2007 at 04:19 PM
pdmphoto
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p.1 #17 · Anyone recommend a 100mm f/2 semi macro?


jvarszegi wrote:
How about the 100mm f/2.8 macro from Canon, and 100mm f/2 prime? Performance might be even better, and you'd have autofocus and a warranty. The only thing it would take is giving up a cherished notion of shooting with a third-party lens.



Cherished notion? How about superb optical quality (better than Canon), excellent manual focus feel, one lens vs. two in your bag, and build quality so good you don't need a warranty?

Jun 14, 2007 at 04:20 PM
jvarszegi
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p.1 #18 · Anyone recommend a 100mm f/2 semi macro?


pdmphoto wrote:
jvarszegi wrote:
How about the 100mm f/2.8 macro from Canon, and 100mm f/2 prime? Performance might be even better, and you'd have autofocus and a warranty. The only thing it would take is giving up a cherished notion of shooting with a third-party lens.



Cherished notion? How about superb optical quality (better than Canon), excellent manual focus feel, one lens vs. two in your bag, and build quality so good you don't need a warranty?


Sorry, I'm not buying it on the optical quality; perhaps you've never used these two Canon lenses. They already outresolve the 20D sensor, and the 100mm f/2 is identical in optical quality to the 135mm f/2. In addition, I'll take autofocus over "excellent manual focus feel" any day. The "build quality so good" attitude will work until something breaks.

Jun 14, 2007 at 05:21 PM
pdmphoto
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p.1 #19 · Anyone recommend a 100mm f/2 semi macro?


Yes, I have. Look around the web you'll find many reports of other macro lenses outperforming the Canon 100/2.8. You don't have to take my word for it, there are a few respected member on this forum who have given their praise to the Zuiko 90/2. Also, concerning the 100/2, it has a good share of CA, not the best sharpness at F2, and not very good close focus.

Have you ever used a Zuiko 90/2? What's to fail? There are no electronics and the mechanics are solid.

Jun 14, 2007 at 05:36 PM
jvarszegi
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p.1 #20 · Anyone recommend a 100mm f/2 semi macro?


pdmphoto wrote:
Yes, I have. Look around the web you'll find many reports of other macro lenses outperforming the Canon 100/2.8. You don't have to take my word for it, there are a few respected member on this forum who have given their praise to the Zuiko 90/2. Also, concerning the 100/2, it has a good share of CA, not the best sharpness at F2, and not very good close focus.

Have you ever used a Zuiko 90/2? What's to fail? There are no electronics and the mechanics are solid.


I'm sorry, you are confused. The 100mm f/2 does not have a lot of CA, and is sharper on the 20D than the well-regarded 50mm macro from Olympus (the new one, which is often compared with the 100mm f/2 Zuiko). Guess what else outresolves that 50mm macro? The 100mm f/2.8 from Canon. The Canon gets sharper in the center, but at the edges on a crop camera (which the OP has) it is still sharper.

You're also confused about the 100mm f/2 and close focus... I never claimed it had good close focus. That's why I recommended buying both lenses, instead of compromising with one AF-hobbled third-party lens without a warranty.

Jun 14, 2007 at 06:26 PM
fourfa
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p.1 #21 · Anyone recommend a 100mm f/2 semi macro?


just a note, some reviewers rate the bokeh of the non-USM Canon 100 macro as higher than the USM macro. If that's one of your concerns, check it out. I have the USM 100 macro and the bokeh for portraiture is, well, it looks like a macro lens. Wiry, busy. At macro distances all lenses have excellent bokeh.

an oddball choice worth looking at is the Tamron 90 macro. Cheap noisy lens but has a unique fingerprint - wet dense colors, sharp of course, but a roundness to the bokeh not often seen in macros. Not f2, but maybe a unique look overcomes that

Jun 14, 2007 at 07:01 PM
pdmphoto
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p.1 #22 · Anyone recommend a 100mm f/2 semi macro?


Exactly, there are many cheaper alternatives that perform better, as well as some more expensive ones. It's not all about resolution, or outresolving the sensor. I'm not going to take over this thread , or get into a tit for tat discussion, about it. BTW, I don't know any experienced macro people that use AF for macro.

Jun 14, 2007 at 08:12 PM
jvarszegi
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p.1 #23 · Anyone recommend a 100mm f/2 semi macro?


pdmphoto wrote:
Exactly, there are many cheaper alternatives that perform better, as well as some more expensive ones. It's not all about resolution, or outresolving the sensor. I'm not going to take over this thread , or get into a tit for tat discussion, about it. BTW, I don't know any experienced macro people that use AF for macro.


Ok, good. BTW, the OP said he wants to use the lens for portraiture, not just macro.

Jun 14, 2007 at 08:20 PM
cogitech
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p.1 #24 · Anyone recommend a 100mm f/2 semi macro?


My vote goes to the Tamron 90/2.5 + dedicated 2X tele. I just got one and it has exceeded my expectations, to say the least.

The lens alone does 1:2 very nicely and makes very nice portraits (from what I can tell so far) with very smooth bokeh. Sharp wide open, excellent coatings, 9 blades, all that the OP asked for (except f2). The ability to slap the tele on and go to 180mm f4 1:1 macro is icing on the cake.

Oh, and at these focal lengths, f2.5 (or even f2.8 for that matter) should be shallow enough for just about anything.

The best thing? It is the cheapest of any mentioned so far.

Jun 14, 2007 at 08:34 PM
rico
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p.1 #25 · Anyone recommend a 100mm f/2 semi macro?


The Tamron 90 macro has been famous for a long time. Of the recent 3rd-party macros, I'm most impressed by images from the Sigma 150/2.8 - frankly astounding bokeh.

Jun 15, 2007 at 03:58 AM




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