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Archive 2007 · Summilux-R 50mm E60 opinions?

belsha
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p.2 #1 · Summilux-R 50mm E60 opinions?

Robsteve: what camera did you use?

Mar 15, 2007 at 12:01 AM

robsteve
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p.2 #2 · Summilux-R 50mm E60 opinions?

belsha wrote:
Robsteve: what camera did you use?

I used a R9 with a DMR back. These were from 18months ago when my DMR was only a few days old. Nothing fancy was done to them, just convert from DNG and resize.

Mar 15, 2007 at 12:08 AM

NonFiction
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p.2 #3 · Summilux-R 50mm E60 opinions?

Wow, and fool me just having shipped off this lens to one of the principal participants of the thread! (slapping own head)

Mar 15, 2007 at 02:42 AM

zhangp
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p.2 #4 · Summilux-R 50mm E60 opinions?

Robsteve: That's sharp! Here is my Nikkor 50/1.4

Mar 15, 2007 at 03:33 AM

ecchi
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p.2 #5 · Summilux-R 50mm E60 opinions?

hi, Jonas,

it's dreamy and creamy!!
this pentax will be a nice complement to your E60

I concur your opinion on the 50 lens here: http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/515410/1

It appears that the "perfect" lens is indeed the E60 in absolute terms (resolution, aberration, distortion. flare....etc.). However, subjectively I guess many ppl find its bokeh on the harsh side as it's demonstrated by robsteve (the above post) on the DMR (which is cropped sensor; so, the bokeh will be more pronounced on your 5D).

Unlike other 1.2 or 1.4 50mm lens, I think the Noct Nikkor has good contrast and flare resistance @f1.2 (the lens is optimized at f1.2, and IQ degrade as you stop down.) I also believe that it has creamy/dreamy type bokeh.
Although Nikkor lens does have sample variation (unlike Leica), but not sure the severity on the Noct Nikkor since this lens is hand crafted.
If I had 2.5 grand to buy a new toy, Noct Nikkor will be it.
There is one on auction on ebay now going at one grand, but not sure what will be the final bid

Anyway, I am ready for the flary pictures of your Oly, just bumped the thread (oops)

Mar 15, 2007 at 06:38 AM

EricH
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p.2 #6 · Summilux-R 50mm E60 opinions?

Dang, I wanted that 50mm Summilux Scott. Whoever got it, please post some images taken with it!

Jonas,
If you are looking for a fast 50 with good bokeh, don't overlook the older Oly G.Zuiko 55mm f/1.2 with rare earth glass. It's not hugely sharp but has beautiful bokeh in my opinion. I found one on ebay and paid about $200 for it. I think you can find information on the internet about it, but I did read somewhere that the rare earth glass version had better bokeh? Well look for low serial numbers. Was trying to find a good image taken with that lens on my 5D (which mounts without any mirror clearance issues). Here's one of a bird or paradise flower for the bokeh- but Aperture doesn't record aperture - can't say it was at f/1.2 or not but it had to be close to that.

This image is copyrighted by the owner

This image is copyrighted by the owner

Tell me what you think about that bokeh?

Mar 15, 2007 at 07:12 AM

ecchi
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p.2 #7 · Summilux-R 50mm E60 opinions?

EricH,

that's creamy!!

how does the 55/1.2 compare with the later 50/1.2 version?

how is the flare control on this lens? can you post some non-macro shot?

Mar 15, 2007 at 09:04 AM

Jonas B
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p.2 #8 · Summilux-R 50mm E60 opinions?

NonFiction wrote:
Wow, and fool me just having shipped off this lens to one of the principal participants of the thread! (slapping own head)

Aha, there comes the shipping confirmation...

And you have your big sellout for a reason, eh? regards,

Mar 15, 2007 at 02:20 PM

Jonas B
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p.2 #9 · Summilux-R 50mm E60 opinions?

ecchi wrote:
it's dreamy and creamy!!
this pentax will be a nice complement to your E60

Thanks. It could have been... I sold it last week. The Pentax lenses are good and bad, just as the rest of the bunch. I was tired of the axial CA and low contrast wide open. It also needed some butchering for use with the 5D...

ecchi wrote:
I concur your opinion on the 50 lens here: http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/515410/1

It appears that the "perfect" lens is indeed the E60 in absolute terms (resolution, aberration, distortion. flare....etc.). However, subjectively I guess many ppl find its bokeh on the harsh side as it's demonstrated by robsteve (the above post) on the DMR (which is cropped sensor; so, the bokeh will be more pronounced on your 5D).

Yes, we'll se how it works out. I bought Scott's item and it should arrive here next week or so.

ecchi wrote:
Unlike other 1.2 or 1.4 50mm lens, I think the Noct Nikkor has good contrast and flare resistance @f1.2 (the lens is optimized at f1.2, and IQ degrade as you stop down.) I also believe that it has creamy/dreamy type bokeh.
Although Nikkor lens does have sample variation (unlike Leica), but not sure the severity on the Noct Nikkor since this lens is hand crafted.
If I had 2.5 grand to buy a new toy, Noct Nikkor will be it.
There is one on auction on ebay now going at one grand, but not sure what will be the final bid

I have seen some different test results from the Noct Nikkor. One of them showed a contrast very close to zero at f/1.2. (whatever that can look like, sounds unlikely somehow) No coma though... Otoh, I have also seen some great samples. The last one I saw at screambay went for USD3000+. That's way to much for me for such a special lens.

ecchi wrote:
Anyway, I am ready for the flary pictures of your Oly, just bumped the thread (oops)

They are there now. I hope they help somewhat. Regards,

Mar 15, 2007 at 02:30 PM

Jonas B
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p.2 #10 · Summilux-R 50mm E60 opinions?

EricH wrote:
Dang, I wanted that 50mm Summilux Scott. Whoever got it, please post some images taken with it!
-snip-
Jonas,
If you are looking for a fast 50 with good bokeh, don't overlook the older Oly G.Zuiko 55mm f/1.2 with rare earth glass. It's not hugely sharp but has beautiful bokeh in my opinion. I found one on ebay and paid about $200 for it. I think you can find information on the internet about it, but I did read somewhere that the rare earth glass version had better bokeh? Well look for low serial numbers. Was trying to find a good image taken with that lens on my 5D (which mounts without any mirror clearance issues). Here's one of a bird or paradise flower for the bokeh- but Aperture doesn't record aperture - can't say it was at f/1.2 or not but it had to be close to that.

Tell me what you think about that bokeh?

No complaints on that picture Eric. There are some sharp lines in the background but it is all depending on structures and distances I guess,

I have the Zuiko 50/1.2. From what I have heard it is a bit sharper than the 55/1.2 and at the same time the 55/1.2 is said to have a notch better bokeh. I can't compare them first hand but to my taste the 50/1.2 is a little on the soft side. The EF50/1.2L is better, both with regards to resolution/contrast and bokeh.

If the 50 Lux E60 dowsn't work out for me I'll let you know....

regards,

Mar 15, 2007 at 02:35 PM

EricH
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p.2 #11 · Summilux-R 50mm E60 opinions?

Jonas B wrote:

If the 50 Lux E60 dowsn't work out for me I'll let you know....

regards,

Please do!

As far as the Oly 55 f/1.2...I can't say how it compares to the 50mm 1.2 version but it seems pretty sharp - not 100 mm APO macro elmarit sharp. I haven't shot this lens as much as I should.... mostly using it in the house with my kids since its dark, but here's an alternate fashion image taken with the 55 at f/1.2 or just a stop down. Note the nice bokeh which looks even better in black and white. I do think this lens has less flare control than the leicas and probably some other manufacturers.

If Paul is reading this thread he could probably provide more information....

This image is copyrighted by the owner

This image is copyrighted by the owner

Mar 15, 2007 at 04:12 PM

EricH
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p.2 #12 · Summilux-R 50mm E60 opinions?

As far as the sharp lines in the flower shot, yes I see what you are talking about but these are not so apparent in the full size file and there were lots of plants and things close in the background. The way the OOF area is rendered is interesing - not all just blur but shapes made soft with edges so the viewer can tell there is stuff in the background but not focus on them or have their attention drawn away. I do think the bokeh on this lens is particularly nice and is pleasing for a lot of subject matter - the background blur becomes abstract art. I'm not sure what other lenses I have with such pleasing bokeh, IMHO.

Mar 15, 2007 at 04:31 PM

JohnJ
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p.2 #13 · Summilux-R 50mm E60 opinions?

I borrowed a 50 lux E60 to test, with a view to buying it.

I was not so impressed with it and passed on the deal. It's quite sharp, even wide open, but it's not 'impressively sharp', if that makes any sense. The 180 cron is 'impressively sharp' wide open.

It also wasn't as sharp as my 50 cron when stopped down. I had the lens in my hand, the price was right, but I just wasn't convinced that it was worth having.

JJ

Mar 15, 2007 at 11:48 PM

EricH
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p.2 #14 · Summilux-R 50mm E60 opinions?

I'm not convinced that sharpness is everything in an image and in fact sometimes its not desired. But for a lot of images acuity and clarity are everything. In a perfect world we would all be able to have several lenses in each range. :-)

Mar 16, 2007 at 04:44 AM

NonFiction
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p.2 #15 · Summilux-R 50mm E60 opinions?

Jonas B wrote:
NonFiction wrote:
Wow, and fool me just having shipped off this lens to one of the principal participants of the thread! (slapping own head)

Aha, there comes the shipping confirmation...

And you have your big sellout for a reason, eh? regards,

Ah, Jonas... right you are. Eyes on the prize. I've got a documentary to make. What I am doing here mooning about a lens I don't even own anymore! Enjoy!

Mar 16, 2007 at 04:05 PM

Jonas B
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p.2 #16 · Summilux-R 50mm E60 opinions?

Eric,

Thank you for the pictures.

I'm, like you, also not thinking that sharpness is everything. Here I talk about sharpness as in resolution combined with contrast. There are a lot of other lens' properties that are important. For bokeh I think the softer the better, the less bright rings around OOF highlights the better, the less axial CA the better.

When your Zuiko 55/1.2 makes abstract art of the background it is not that pleasing to my eyes. Now I don't think there is anything with the bokeh in your flower picture.

I'm a little more concerned about the bokeh in the portrait/fashion shot where I find all the OOF details a bit distracting. Maybe I also get a bit confused by the focus plane which seems to embrace the nose ring but not the eyes. This isn't easy... you demonstrate the shallow DOF and a soft rendering of the OOF bits but there also is a hint that this lens may show some double lining under certain conditions. It alsomay be due to the distances between the hair and the necklace, the focal plane and the camera with the choosen aperture. Who knows.

I get something similar from the Zuiko 50/1.2. While having pleasent rendering capabilities it falls short compared to the EF50/1.2L when comparing the same shot.

Sharpness.... I think decent contrast at the largest aperture openings are more important than the highest possible absolute resolution. This combo of contrast/resolution must then be paired with as little flare/ghosting as possible and then the whole thing should deliver the smoothest transitions from the focus plane and out. And there don't seem to be one that does this.

Mar 16, 2007 at 05:32 PM

Jonas B
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p.2 #17 · Summilux-R 50mm E60 opinions?

JohnJ wrote:
I borrowed a 50 lux E60 to test, with a view to buying it.

I was not so impressed with it and passed on the deal. It's quite sharp, even wide open, but it's not 'impressively sharp', if that makes any sense. The 180 cron is 'impressively sharp' wide open.
JJ

What about just pleasently sharp? Can you compare it to the Summilux-R 80/1.4?

Mar 16, 2007 at 07:03 PM

JohnJ
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p.2 #18 · Summilux-R 50mm E60 opinions?

Jonas B wrote:
What about just pleasently sharp? Can you compare it to the Summilux-R 80/1.4?

I have the 80/1.4 so I can compare. The new 50 lux was sharper wide open than the 80 wide open, no big surprise considering the 80 is about 20-25 years old. The 80 is particularly good when stopped down though. Really good tonal gradation and sharpness.

There's nothing wrong with the new (E60) 50 lux. It's fine to use wide open. I just expected something special and it was not.

JJ

Mar 17, 2007 at 03:58 AM

EricH
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p.2 #19 · Summilux-R 50mm E60 opinions?

Hey Jonas,
I'll have to use this lens more and take a look more carefully. Almost every time I use it, its a low light situation where I need the fast lens so probably some camera shake in them. I would never suggest that its a superior lens to the 50 Lux or some of the others....just different.

To All: I've seen a lot of lens tests and comparisons that are concerned with sharpenss but not so many with bokeh. I know there was one thread here a year ago that dealth with bokeh but I think its lost. it would be great to see some images with bokeh you think is pleasing taken wide open with lenses in the 50mm range.

Eric

Mar 17, 2007 at 04:52 AM

Jonas B
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p.2 #20 · Summilux-R 50mm E60 opinions?

JohnJ wrote:
I have the 80/1.4 so I can compare. The new 50 lux was sharper wide open than the 80 wide open, no big surprise considering the 80 is about 20-25 years old. The 80 is particularly good when stopped down though. Really good tonal gradation and sharpness.
There's nothing wrong with the new (E60) 50 lux. It's fine to use wide open. I just expected something special and it was not.
JJ

Ok, I think I understand. Thank you.

Mar 17, 2007 at 11:42 PM

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