'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread

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Mark Shaxted
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p.5 #1 · 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread

FWIW, the 1DTc is a piece of fiction. Nothing more than a wishlist.

Edited on Feb 26, 2007 at 06:15 PM

Jan 16, 2007 at 05:38 PM

Tentacle
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p.5 #2 · 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread

Mark Shaxted wrote:
FWIW, the 1DTc is a piece of fiction. Nothing more than a wishlist.

Why would that be? Foveon works. And it will postpone the point where the sensor will out-resolve the glass. So what gives?

Edited on Feb 26, 2007 at 06:15 PM

Jan 16, 2007 at 05:43 PM

Tim Gray
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p.5 #3 · 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread

In 2007, obviously - a 1D3 and 1DS3 - but not both at PMA. I'd expect a 12mpx 1D3 and PMA with a 22 mpx 1DS3 to follow in the fall.

Edited on Feb 26, 2007 at 06:15 PM

Jan 16, 2007 at 05:52 PM

dougsmit
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p.5 #4 · 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread

roli_bark wrote:
And I think there will be an update to the venerable 1D :

Look at this:
http://skyblue04.egloos.com/2864840

However, must be treated with a Double Grain-Of-Salt ...

Note from the above link the line:
- canon ef 10-24 F/2.8 L USM - 1200Eur

I have trouble imagining it would be technically possible to make this lens (EF and L mean it covers FF) but, if they do make it, I would expect the price would be double that quote. If I am wrong, I'll buy one. Can't lose here! More likely this is further evidence of the need for that extra grain of salt.

Edited on Feb 26, 2007 at 06:15 PM

Jan 16, 2007 at 06:23 PM

Mark Shaxted
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p.5 #5 · 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread

Tentacle wrote:
Mark Shaxted wrote:
FWIW, the 1DTc is a piece of fiction. Nothing more than a wishlist.

Why would that be? Foveon works. And it will postpone the point where the sensor will out-resolve the glass. So what gives?

You again?

Jan 16, 2007 at 06:42 PM

dcmiller
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p.5 #6 · 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread

The 1DsTC is best case conjecture. What I would classify 'fiction' at this point would require someone to know Canon's plan and report falsely.

Edited on Feb 26, 2007 at 06:15 PM

Jan 16, 2007 at 06:56 PM

Mark Shaxted
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p.5 #7 · 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread

dcmiller wrote:
The 1DsTC is best case conjecture. What I would classify 'fiction' at this point would require someone to know Canon's plan and report falsely.

By that token, the statement:

"All new Canon cameras will be yellow"

wouldn't be fiction unless proven otherwise!

Edited on Feb 26, 2007 at 06:15 PM

Jan 16, 2007 at 07:05 PM

Tentacle
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p.5 #8 · 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread

Mark Shaxted wrote:

[...] You again?

The OP on DPR admitted it was fictional.

I'm not saying that a foveon type sensor is out of the question (if anything it seems to be the only logical place to go), just that the 1DTc, as reported, was plucked out of thin air...

The scientist in me was screaming "WHAT'S THE [$EXPLETIVE] SOURCE ON THAT THEN??" when I read the remark 'sans' background. Your little DPR detail put it into nice perspective. Thank you

I did try to google on "true color" +canon +patent but that didn't yield much yet...

Edited on Feb 26, 2007 at 06:15 PM

Jan 16, 2007 at 07:06 PM

dcmiller
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p.5 #9 · 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread

Mark Shaxted wrote:
dcmiller wrote:
The 1DsTC is best case conjecture. What I would classify 'fiction' at this point would require someone to know Canon's plan and report falsely.

By that token, the statement:

"All new Canon cameras will be yellow"

wouldn't be fiction unless proven otherwise!

Since the dpreview guy was vague in his first post, I can't follow an argument based upon it's veracity.

Foveon has a 4.6mp chip in production that will be used in the upcoming SD14. That camera will produce a low ISO.image roughly equivalent to a 10mp bayer. This chip is 1/3 the size of full frame.

Take that chip, triple the size, and increase pixels about 6% and that makes a 16mp ff chip. A camera with that chip will conservatively produce a 32mp equivalent image.

Conjecture based on this logic is defensible. Whether it's true or not remains to be seen.

Edited on Feb 26, 2007 at 06:15 PM

Jan 16, 2007 at 07:59 PM

tkjaer
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p.5 #10 · 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread

Here's some more rumors for you guys;

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showpost.php?p=2542563&postcount=14

Edited on Feb 26, 2007 at 06:15 PM

Jan 16, 2007 at 08:27 PM

DmitriM
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p.5 #11 · 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread

I don't understand why Canon limits it's camera resolution to 8-10mp.They do have the technology to go over 25MP+.

So, I do expect 40D to be 12-16MP(non interpolated as 20D/30D),Superior AF,50 ISO,sensor cleaning,larger screen,frame buffer
Oh,support for SD card formats would be a huge benefit,since those are really cheap.

I'd personally would like to see RAW+jpeg,where jpeg is about 800x600pix and radio trigger(as 300D Drebel has)

Edited on Feb 26, 2007 at 06:15 PM

Jan 16, 2007 at 08:28 PM

gpfmartin
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p.5 #12 · 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread

Don't tell anyone you heard it from me, but...

Canon TS-E 90 ƒ/2.8 IS!

Edited by gpfmartin on Jan 16, 2007 at 03:44 PM GMT

Edited on Feb 26, 2007 at 06:15 PM

Jan 16, 2007 at 08:43 PM

JohnLL
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p.5 #13 · 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread

Tentacle wrote:
...
The 40D can give the D200 a run for its money IF Canon pours on enough special sauce, like weathersealing, or maybe the APS-H crop for better DR and high ISO performance. A 40D with APS-H sensor and the pixel density of a 20D/30D would be awesome.

It would indeed, but I doubt either of these (weathersealing / APS-H) will happen with the xxD series any time soon. OTOH, the 1.6x crop is great for keeping weight down with (effectively) long lenses, so I'd say this is a market niche in between the current xxD's and the xD's (5D included): the weathersealed 1.6x camera with 10+MP.
The 1.25x weathersealed camera we already have: it's the 1D2N - in coming incarnations it may get a few more MP now that technology (storage, transmission) is getting better able to cope with bigger files.
How they may eventually re-arrange their naming conventions to accomodate all these possibilities is another mystery. Maybe they could call the new weathersealed 1.6x camera (speculation) the 7D.

Edited on Feb 26, 2007 at 06:15 PM

Jan 16, 2007 at 08:43 PM

Beni
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p.5 #14 · 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread

Although the 1Ds mkII could do with the frame rate of the 1D mkII, why would canon need to upgrade the 1D mkII at all, it's perfect for it's intended user base, journalists. Do they want even bigger files to have to FTP up when they're sending only the medium size ones anyway mostly? Just can't see any reason why Canon would upgrade it, there's nothing to upgrade in what is essentially an extremely sucessful niche (very large niche but niche non the less) DSLR.

Edited on Feb 26, 2007 at 06:15 PM

Jan 16, 2007 at 09:05 PM

Pixel Perfect
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p.5 #15 · 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread

Beni wrote:
Although the 1Ds mkII could do with the frame rate of the 1D mkII, why would canon need to upgrade the 1D mkII at all, it's perfect for it's intended user base, journalists. Do they want even bigger files to have to FTP up when they're sending only the medium size ones anyway mostly? Just can't see any reason why Canon would upgrade it, there's nothing to upgrade in what is essentially an extremely sucessful niche (very large niche but niche non the less) DSLR.

because it's not just a niche camera used only by PJ's and pros. If you want an EOS 3D, this is the only thing that's close and many people buy it for that reason; unhappy with many aspects of the xxD series cameras. They would like a smaller lighter camera but can't give up the pro features at all.

It's doesn't matter that you don't think or see a need exists for an upgrade, competition and the nature of consumers demands it must happen. Personally I can see many areas that could be improved and would also like to see a 12MP version. Nearly 3 yeas old and I bet Canon could easily upgrade this and keep many camps happy.

Edited on Feb 26, 2007 at 06:15 PM

Jan 16, 2007 at 09:28 PM

Jim Victory
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p.5 #16 · 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread

Jan 16, 2007 at 09:31 PM

Beni
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p.5 #17 · 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread

Jim, that is my point, the 1Ds mkII needs more fps but the 1D mkII doesn't need more megapixels.

Edited on Feb 26, 2007 at 06:15 PM

Jan 16, 2007 at 09:34 PM

Steve Spencer
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p.5 #18 · 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread

Let's compare the lineup of the consumer and prosumer cameras from Nikon and Canon and their prices (Prices from B & H)

Nikon

D40 (with kit lens)- $560, D80 (body only) - $925, D200 (body only) - $1400

Canon

400D (body only) - $700, 30D (40D? body only) - $1160 ($1,060 after rebate), notice the gap here 5D (body only) - $2,800 ($2,500 after rebate)

It seems to me given these lineups that Canon has an opportunity to offer a $1,500 to $1,600 camera that is clearly better than the D200 and that such a camera would have the opportunity to do well. Not only does the 5D not have any competition right now, but neither does the D200 or at least it doesn't have much and I don't see how the 40D, unless it goes up in price quite a bit, can really compete with the D200. I think there is a real possibility that Canon will offer a camera in this range. Perhaps it is wishful thinking. I would like something a bit more than what I think the 40D price will allow and yet I can't really afford the 5D price. In the long run I think a full frame camera will fill this niche and maybe they can get the cost of a stripped down 5D into this price range, but even if they can't I would like a camera with quite a bit better autofocus than the 30D, better all around build, perhaps an APS-H size sensor and great high ISO performance in this price range. I think that should be possible. It will be interesting to see if Canon addresses this price range. I hope they do.

Edited on Feb 26, 2007 at 06:15 PM

Jan 16, 2007 at 10:53 PM

Hrow
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p.5 #19 · 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread

I agree with you Steve. I think that there is a very good sized market of serious amateurs sitting right at a price point where Canon has no product. The thing about people willing to spend $1500 - $2000 for a camera is that they are also willing to spend money on lenses. I strongly suspect that Canon will fill this void at PMA. If they don't and Nikon addresses some of their lens line-up weakness (300mm F4 VR and an equal to the 24-105 IS) then Canon could start to see their market share continuing to decline under increasing pressure from Nikon and Sony.

Edited on Feb 26, 2007 at 06:15 PM

Jan 16, 2007 at 11:51 PM

Todd308
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p.5 #20 · 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread

It will be interesting for sure.

I think if the 5d gets any upgrade it will be minor similar to the 20/30d upgrade. There is no competition for the 5d currently.

I think the 30D is due for a major upgrade, just because the 30d was a joke of an upgrade from the 20d. It's starting to take a beating from the D80 and D200. This is why I expect a disappointing upgrade to the 5D. If canon continues on this trend they are getting in essence twice as much market time for basically the same camera.

I think a lot of people are just fooling themselves. I can't see canon giving consumer level cameras (non 1 series) weather sealing, vastly improved AF, and more FPS. If they did that why would anyone buy a 1 series? It's just not going to happen. You might see minor advancements to those features, but they are still going to keep a serious performance gap between the 1 series sealing, AF, and possible FPS because that's what sells 1 series cameras.

Same is true for some of the lens wishes.

I'd love to see a 100-400 F4 non push pull with IS, however I'd never pay the $5000+ for it that one would cost. People complain the 100-400 push pull is too big and heavy if they get rid of the push pull it's going to get bigger and heavier. The nikon 200-400 f4 is over $5000 and is a massive lens. I could also see them try to release a 200-500 f 5.6 zoom with IS just to be different. The 200-X seems more likely to be seen in a new L lens because so many have the 70-200, and a 200-400 will have better IQ than a 100-400.

I don't think we will see the 100-400 revamped to a new IS system or the 300 F4 revamped. Simply because there are probably other lenses without IS that canon is drooling to offer. Unless it's very cost effective for them to do this, and they think they can increase prices enough to take advantage of it. I'd suspect at least a 30-50% price increase if they do revamp them. Take the 24-70 2.8. The 17-55 2.8 IS was instant proof that canon can charge silly amounts of money for a wide angle zoom with IS that isn't even an L lens. They could easily charge $2000+ for a 24-70 2.8 IS L lens. We can argue how useful IS is for wide angle lenses but the proof is in the fact that the 17-55 is selling great.

The 400 5.6 sure needs IS, but you can figure the price will be around if not over $2000 just by the price increase on the 70-200 f4 IS.

Also I think if canon does not come out with a 18-200 IS lens, with quality to rival the nikon version with a price tag around $1000, they are just flat out stupid. The nikon version has been out for almost 14 months now and it's still widely sold out, it's still selling on ebay used more than MSRP. I know people that specifically bought a D80 just to use this lens as their travel camera.

So you may get your lens wishes, but be prepared to shell out a lot of coin for them.

Edited on Feb 26, 2007 at 06:15 PM

Jan 17, 2007 at 12:55 AM

nikt
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p.5 #21 · 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread

Steve, you've nailed exactly what I was getting at. That Canon will look to bring out either a 'boring' (if I can use that world) upgrade to the 30D. Or they will do as Nikon have done and bring out a mini 1Ds, maintain the 1.6x, not have quite the resolution or fps, and price it above the D200, since it will be a better camera (I will assume).

There's been discussion that Canon wouldn't do this becuase it would eat into 1Ds sales, but Nikon did with the D200 and it certainly hasn't hurt Nikon. In fact, the cameras compliment each other very nicely.

Edited on Feb 26, 2007 at 06:15 PM

Jan 17, 2007 at 02:04 AM

danmitchell
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p.5 #22 · 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread

RE IS pricing: Recently the addition of IS has added about $500-$600 to the cost of an existing type of lens.

RE 5D: There is no real competition at this time for a 12MP full frame camera, but it can't be too long before someone else (Nikon?) introduces full frame sensor bodies, at which point simply providing a full frame sensor body will no longer differentiate Canon the was it currently does. At that point (and maybe before?) Canon may want to have a better full frame body. It could be better on price, MP count, other body features, or whatever...

RE 30D: It seems to me that this market niche is where Canon has the biggest problem. While not everyone agrees, the 400D in some ways surpasses it. Even with a sensor upgrade (10MP) and the other features a "40D" would not be clearly a major upgrade over the 400D or above other similar cameras from a number of manufacturers - Nikon, Pentax, Sony. Until recently, Canon's offering in this segment (the 30D) outperformed what little competition there was. Now a 40D with a 10MP sensor, dust reduction, larger display, etc would not be much different from the competition.

(If you think the 20D to 30D "upgrade" was underwhelming, imagine how the market would respond to a me-too upgrade to a 10MP 40D with dust reduction, etc. Ho hum. ;-)

(On the other hand, the 400D is pretty competitive with the other manufactures' offerings - on price and features - and it comes with the Canon reputation (and the white lenses ;-). The 5D obviously has no current competion - it is best in class since it is alone there. More or less the same is true for the 1-series bodies.)

It wouldn't surpise me if before long (though maybe not PMA) Canon decided to move the current 30D segment to full frame. In other words, rather than upgrading to a 40D that isn't much different from the competition, they could leapfrog the competition in this segment with a reasonably prices full frame body. It would cost more than the 30D, but not much more than the inflation adjusted price in this category - perhaps it would list for a bit above $2000 with room for the price to naturally drop below $2000, perhaps even $1800 market price before too long. With such a camera at this price point and an evolved 400D below that, what potential 40D buyer (excepting some wildlife photographers) wouldn't go for the full frame option? And how many 20D/30D owners would be interested in upgrading?

This, by the way, could also allow for a more powerful 400D (less features disabled to differentiate it from the 30D) to be truly best of breed in that category and allow it to be even more competitve against offerings by Nikon and others. It would also make some space for an upgraded full frame camera at about the current list price of the 5D, namely in the low $3000 range. In addition, eventually making the 400D category the "high end" of the APS-C range would leave space for an even less expensive entry level APS-C body.

Totally unsubstantiated, under-educated, fact-free, wish list, fantasy... :-)

Edited on Feb 26, 2007 at 06:15 PM

Jan 17, 2007 at 02:34 AM

Strid3r
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p.5 #23 · 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread

I think the Digital Rebel XT would serve quite well as the most basic dSLR, I mean its better than the D50 (in most aspects) and they sell for close to the same price. Why not just have a camera of Rebel XT standards (maybe a little stripped off) selling as the beginner camera. Keep the Rebel line for people like me who don't really want to tote around huge cameras and don't want to/or can't drop 2 grand on a dSLR body. I think leaving the xx-D as an upgrade path for us xxx-D users is a smart business plan. Canon has shown through the 17-55 and 10-22 they probably are going to keep the C sized sensor around and honestly if you leave the C sized sensor only to the very basic dSLRs, not too many of the customers are going to buy the $1000 lenses. You can't look at this from only a professional perspective, in the eyes of us hobbyists the xxx-D and xx-D Cameras are plenty. We don't need full frame necessarily, and we don't need a 1D or 5D. We only want a capable camera that doesn't break the bank too much (like the ideal 40D)

Edited on Feb 26, 2007 at 06:15 PM

Jan 17, 2007 at 03:36 AM

Hrow
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p.5 #24 · 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread

Dan,

While agree with most of what you have said here and in past posts, I do have to disagree with the idea of a FF at about $2K. Basically, the 5D is a 20D with a better sensor but with lower capabilities in certain areas. How could they reduce the feature set of the 5D to create a camera to fit into this niche and still have it accepted?

They could probably drop the price of the 5D and bring in a new FF above it (at current 5D prices) but two things will happen 1.) 1Ds sales (even assuming that the 1Ds goes to 20+ MP) will take a very serious hit and be confined largely to those who are looking at saving some money by not going to MF. 2.) People like me who want a well rounded camera for multi-purpose applications will be even more tempted to head toward Nikon. I don't care how "good" they make the 400D, I am not buying one; nor am I buying a FF for $2K while it remains at 3 FPS and has the same basic AF system as their entry level DSLR.

Canon needs a robust body with good AF and FPS at an affordable price point. If they don't do it, Nikon or Sony will. Everybody seems to assume that Canon needs to answer the D200 but the reality is that Canon needs an answer to the "next" D200.

Edited on Feb 26, 2007 at 06:15 PM

Jan 17, 2007 at 03:38 AM

lordcarl
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p.5 #25 · 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread

Good, great and not-so-great news!!!

Good #1:
The new products for first half of 2007 might be unveiled earlier than expected, as early as Feb 20 (current extended EOS 5D rebate in USA ends on Feb 19) SHOULD Canon decides to participate at UK's Focus in Imaging '07 photo trade show (from Feb 25-28), hence moving the pre-hype excitement generated for PMA in USA over to Europe instead.

Not-so-Great #1:
If Canon choose to participate only in PMA Show 2007, then the original date of unveiling the new products will come after March 1 instead.

Last year, the organisers of Focus '06 held the event on same dates/weekend as PMA 2006 but most major camera makers including Canon decided not to participate in the former. EOS 30D had its first public viewing at PMA instead.

Not so Great #2:
Neither the EOS 5D nor the EOS-1Ds MK II will see any successor at either Focus '07 or in PMA 2007 - these two are still being offered as current EOS System line-up for first half of 2007.

Great:
There will be only 1 new EOS DSLR for first half of 2007 - guess which of the current line-up gets to be replaced?

Edited on Feb 26, 2007 at 06:15 PM

Jan 17, 2007 at 03:44 AM


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