"Old dogs apparently can't learn new tricks and, in case case, learn old tricks either.
You continue to fail to see the very real distinction between auto aperture and auto exposure."
Not at all but the adage which does apply; when one runs out of argument, insults start.
I'm neither dog (domestic animal) nor do I fail to see (ignorant or stupid).
Manual is manual and auto is auto and some can't understand the difference because they don't want to cause it fails to serve their purpose.
You can tell a CNC machine what to do and then it will automatically executes when instructed to do so. You can tell a camera body what aperture to execute and it will automaticall execute the directive. But once you've disconnected (because the electric contacts are no longer available for the body to communicate with the lense and the lense doesn't have the internal motors) communication of the lense to the body, adding the intervention of the hand in the process to take the place of the original intent of the OEM lenses, you've lost auto and are now manual.
No AE; period. You're just going to have to get used to it. I'm not changing for your or other's benefits cause I see it differently. These are undeniable facts, based upon the usage of the English language who's word usage I I had nothing to do with developing.
When one uses a CZ21/2.8, you lose AE. Now how crazy are you going make yourself; that's the real question?
"I could go on and on with this list. Do I need to?"
If it will make you feel better about yourself, sure, go right ahead.
A word to the wise, I've stopped reading what you're posting (links) as it's not supporting your case. Auto is auto, and manual (intervention of the hand) is manual. Language has meaning and it's very clear the English language has been twisted beyond recognition in this case; not saying you're twisting the language but the term AE, used in this manner, is twisted.
Truly, I do understand the process as I was doing this sort of stuff back in the 60's & 70's but it's not auto (never was) as sans the hand, none of it happens; which makes it manual. In honesty, a better term needs to be coined which takes the manual aspect of the process into consideration and the auto needs to be removed so as to be within conformance of standardized usage of the English language.
I tell you what, I'll let you have the last word and then please don't hold it against me for not responding in kind, in regard to is it or isn't it AE. I'll respond to the OP's question and post what I stated in regard to one losing AE if they use or ask about a CZ21/2.8 and you can counter me all you wish and I won't respond in kind out of thoughtfulness towards the forum. Thanks for your thoughtful efforts.
Edited by BeeMan458 on Dec 06, 2006 at 03:52 PM GMT
Beeman, you're the one with the English language problem. Did you even TRY to read what Paul posted?
It would be a rhetorical question, but Paul JUST posted a series of quotes that include the phrase "stop-down AE," which if you are having difficulty with, stands for "stop-down automatic-exposure." That's from NIKON!
So you are telling us that since you shot in the 60/70s, you are correct on this issue and NIKON (which, by the way, has been playing with this optical/photo thing WAY longer than you), and every other camera maker is dead wrong?
Please, if you can't deal with the ability to modify words, you've got some English language problems. If manual and automatic were so black and white... I don't know where to begin.
"It would be a rhetorical question, but Paul JUST posted a series of quotes that include the phrase "stop-down AE," which if you are having difficulty with, stands for "stop-down automatic-exposure." That's from NIKON!"
Please, yes I read what Paul had to write and link to and no, there's no difficulty in understanding that the term is being used improperly so my apologies as this whole matter has to do with semantics and how the language is used and does not hinge on how a Japanese company chooses to improperly use the English language meaning of the term "auto.". The term is improperly being used when clearly, if the intervention of the hand is removed from the process, proper exposure will not happen unless by happenstance, the exposure, like a stopped clock, is already properly set for that particular exposure. Stop-down metering is not auto exposure. No hand, no exposure. Where's the auto if the hand is removed? I don't care who says it is, it isn't auto as hand intervention is required. At best, it becomes semi-auto much like the difference between a semi-automatic Vs a fully-automatic pistol Vs a single action..
Thank you for your thoughts and I'll not respond to anybody else in this thread in regard to the matter of AE Vs Manual. I'm sure everybody is want of a rest in regard to this matter, if not just out of thoughtfulness to everybody who's not participating in this OT debate.
I recently bought a Zuiko 18 to satisfy my desire for something wide on my 5d. I was concerned about losing auto focus and auto exposure, because I'm not a pro that can do sunny 16 or any exposure calculations in my head, and my eyes aren't so good anymore so I don't really trust my manual focus abilities. But decided to give it a try anyway.
My "default" settings on the Zuiko are F8 (sometimes F11) and infinity focus. The camera is set on AV. With the depth of field of that set up the camera has truly become a "point and shoot". I never touch anything (well I did set it once). I just trigger the shutter.
Thomas may well be right on his view of this subject. Strictly defining the terms used in the debate I think he probably is. Or, all the others may be right. Doesn't really matter to me, and it doesn't matter to me if my camera is "automatic" or not. Call it what you will. I just point and shoot with my adapted lens and enjoy remarkable photos.
I love that lens. And I am not going to lose any sleep over whether it is or isn't automatic.
LDR99 wrote:
I recently bought a Zuiko 18 to satisfy my desire for something wide on my 5d. I was concerned about losing auto focus and auto exposure, because I'm not a pro that can do sunny 16 or any exposure calculations in my head, and my eyes aren't so good anymore so I don't really trust my manual focus abilities. But decided to give it a try anyway.
My "default" settings on the Zuiko are F8 (sometimes F11) and infinity focus. The camera is set on AV. With the depth of field of that set up the camera has truly become a "point and shoot". I never touch anything (well I did set it once). I just trigger the shutter.
Thomas may well be right on his view of this subject. Strictly defining the terms used in the debate I think he probably is. Or, all the others may be right. Doesn't really matter to me, and it doesn't matter to me if my camera is "automatic" or not. Call it what you will. I just point and shoot with my adapted lens and enjoy remarkable photos.
I love that lens. And I am not going to lose any sleep over whether it is or isn't automatic.
