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Archive 2006 · Does anyone use Costco as their lab??

  
 
pixelman
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · Does anyone use Costco as their lab??


'Part of me would feel bad charging people extra for something they can get themselves'

You could say the same thing about photography.In my case when clients order prints there is the next level of improvement from proof level to final more costly print level taking place. In between the file and the print is me at a calibrated monitor with a paid for copy of photo$hop, time toil blood and tears improving it.

The minilab is a pizza oven nothing more. They pay me to make the dough and slop the toppings on. I can heat it up anywhere.

Costco itself is like most of other businesses the staff can make the difference. I use costco for much of my printing. They use the very same model as another lab in town. For a while they had the better newer version. costco pays the staff a little bit more than at the lab. So who's the evil employer?

I'm not trying to bait anyone here just consider that your discussing a multi hundred store chain not a one off facility. It's gonna vary.

Steve



Nov 04, 2006 at 06:20 PM
Chris Dodkin
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · Does anyone use Costco as their lab??


It's purely a snob thing.

The so called 'pro' labs often have the same model of printer, but will chrage you a premium for using it.

If, you are a true pro, and handle all of your color pre-press work in house, there is absolutely no difference between the Noritsu 3111 at CostCo and the same model printer at the 'pro' lab.

You need to download the exact color space profile for the printer you use from DRYCREEK, and do your color profile work prior to taking the fully prepped file to be printed.

The lab does nothing other than load the Fuji Crystal into the Noritsu, and make sure that corrections is set to OFF.

The color matched print will then be produced, and you could print at Costo, or Joe's expenso Pro Lab, and the results will be the same.

It's a sad comment on the power of marketing that so many people here believe that a pro lab will provide a better quality print than say CostCo, given that you've gone through the color space matching process as described.

If you don't do your own color pre-press, then all bets are off where ever you go - you just gave up the most critical part of the process to someone who get's paid minimum + to process x hundred shots a day.

Again, it's sad to see how many people have no idea about color space workflow, and do not have calibrated monitors, or printer profiles, and even use sRGB as a default color space to process images.

There's a whole world of quality out there, that can be directly under your control as a digital photographer - you just need to make the extra effort to learn what to do.

And as for the T's & C's at CostCo - they do not apply to walk-ins, all you agree is that you have copyright of the images that you are priniting.

Many of the opinions expressed here are based on experience for sure, but pure ignorance of the color pre-press process.

Go read the drycreek website FAQs - and if you still can't stand being seen in CostCo - you have other problems which probably can't be solved on this forum.

Chris.



Nov 04, 2006 at 06:52 PM
carisak727
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · Does anyone use Costco as their lab??


If clients could get the same images themselves with their cameras they wouldn't need us. I like to think that the images I take are better than the images that a client would take of themselves. I am charging for the service, the "vision" so to speak (granted I have a lot to learn). But if I am going to charge higher prices for a print, I personally feel that it should come from somewhere that pays attentions to the little details and prints up to my standards. If Costco is up to your standards (like pixelman said, the staff can make a big difference) then you can use them and that is fine. I just wouldn't do it myself. This is just my opinion though, what works for one, may not work for another.


Nov 04, 2006 at 06:56 PM
cecesdada
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · Does anyone use Costco as their lab??


carisak727 wrote:
This may come off harsh...but as soon as I started taking money for my prints I found a pro lab to make them. Part of me would feel bad charging people extra for something they can get themselves. I feel like if I can say my prints are made at a professional lab that is value added to my products. I guess it just depends on what market you are after, and how you feel about it. Personally, I would not want to be worried everytime I went to get prints about who I might run into. And eventually, word
...Show more


I don't use Costco, but we tried one of the "pro" labs in town, and they were terrible. Maybe some people need the pro lab to make their work look good. We use Ritz and we know the lab techs and they work well with us. They rarely have to correct our stuff. So, how about all of you "pros" get your egos in check and let people do what suits them best. If you have the talent, know the equipment and produce excellent work, who cares where you get it printed. The key is to have a good relationship with your lab, know the techs, and have a lab that takes care of their equipment, period.

I do agree that if you are embarassed to be seen there, you might want to go somewhere, because that is not working for you.

We do also love MPix.

Jason



Nov 04, 2006 at 06:59 PM
Chris Dodkin
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · Does anyone use Costco as their lab??


carisak727 wrote:
If clients could get the same images themselves with their cameras they wouldn't need us. I like to think that the images I take are better than the images that a client would take of themselves. I am charging for the service, the "vision" so to speak (granted I have a lot to learn). But if I am going to charge higher prices for a print, I personally feel that it should come from somewhere that pays attentions to the little details and prints up to my standards. If Costco is up to your standards (like pixelman said, the staff
...Show more

You need to read my post above - the staff make zero difference when you use a pro pre press color workflow - they never touch the image in any way.

So what value do they add to the process?

So if a Noritsu 3111 is up to your standards, it doesn't matter which one you use, as long as you have a calibrated color profile for that exact printer.

You appear to be a classic case of someone who does not understand color pre press, or the role of the lab in pro printing.

Chris.



Nov 04, 2006 at 07:01 PM
carisak727
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · Does anyone use Costco as their lab??


Chris,

I checked out the drycreek site, there is a lot of info there and I will be spending further time there. Perhaps the reason why I have noticed a difference between the drug store or Walmart (I don't even have a Costco) and the lab I use is just because my lab takes the time to correct my images if I mess them up. I freely admit, I am at a point where I need that extra assurance behind me, knowing that they will color correct if needed. Maybe in my case the fault is on my end. I have a lot to learn about the color management end of things, that is also part of the reason why I use a "pro" lab.



Nov 04, 2006 at 07:06 PM
Chris Dodkin
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · Does anyone use Costco as their lab??


There is a whole lot to learn, but if you color calibrate your equipment, and get the profile for your output devices(s), then you can achieve prints that look the same as on your screen, and that's the name of the game.

It's unfortunate for the people at the pro lab that you're taking their role away from them, but the point of digital is that you have end to end control of your photo workflow (if you want it) - giving you better results than you ever imagined, and consistancy and confidence that every print will be just as you saw it on your computer.

Chris.



Nov 04, 2006 at 07:11 PM
MikeDitz
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · Does anyone use Costco as their lab??


For a while I was getting Fuji prints done for my portfolio at a pro lab for around $13 or $14 each. Then I tried the evil Walmart ( I am not a member of the evil Costco) for some prints of my dog and took in files that the pro lab had done. For $2.19 most were as good or better than the pro lab. A couple need to be reprinted. The mgr at the Wally mart lab told me to go directly to her and not bother with the 'worker bees' they didn't know a whole lot about a good print or not. And she said the photolab is run by an outsider, not Walmart so there if Costco is the same there could be vast difference in training of the staff.


Nov 04, 2006 at 08:36 PM
johnny0110
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · Does anyone use Costco as their lab??



Chris Dodkin and I have posted about this before, as well as many others....... see this post.

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/466029/0

JT





Nov 04, 2006 at 11:17 PM
Brutus_B
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · Does anyone use Costco as their lab??


Chris Dodkin wrote:
You need to read my post above - the staff make zero difference when you use a pro pre press color workflow - they never touch the image in any way.

So what value do they add to the process?

So if a Noritsu 3111 is up to your standards, it doesn't matter which one you use, as long as you have a calibrated color profile for that exact printer.

You appear to be a classic case of someone who does not understand color pre press, or the role of the lab in pro printing.

Chris.



This isnt quite the truth. The staff may not "touch" an image but they do have alot to do with the quality of output.

Frontiers, Noritsu's and any other machine still needs to be calibrated and maintained.

Please explain why if these machines are so totally foolproof that I can send in identical files weeks apart and get vastly different outputs at the local WalMart then ? I know for a fact my file didnt change so its got to be the machine.


I dont know, Im not telling anyone what to do, but after spending tens of thousands on the very best camera's, lenses, and lighting equipment, years practicing and perfecting my craft, it seems kinda foolish to go and make my prints at the cheapest place I can find.

Its kinda like when Im selling a fine art print, I could save maybe $1 or 2 using non acid free backing materials, but when someone is spending hundreds of dollars on a matted work, why cut the corner ?

Costco delivers pretty good quality output sure, but does anyone ever argue it's better than a lab like Mpix or WHCC ? Not that Ive ever seen/heard.

Maybe the WHCC print wont be that much better, but it will never be worse.

So when your chaging a client $2000 for a wedding, why make do with "good enough" just to save yourself a few dollars ?

My philospohy is use the best equipment I can, take the best pictures that I can, and deliver the best product that I can.



Nov 05, 2006 at 02:10 AM
sivrajbm
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · Does anyone use Costco as their lab??


I calibrate my equipment and I can say my local Costco does very well. I know the techs there and they keep things up to snuff. Two of the four used to work for pro labs, now they work at Costco. Never had a single problem other than the ones I caused. Even then once I corrected the files they reprinted them for FREE. I Love my Costco.


Nov 05, 2006 at 04:51 AM
Gary Harfield
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · Does anyone use Costco as their lab??


The costco I visit, I have spoken to the lab techs there, and I have been told many pros use that location as well, so they must be doing something right.

I have yet to need a reprint from them for making a mistake, my prints have been great.



Nov 05, 2006 at 05:14 AM
gillyohan
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · Does anyone use Costco as their lab??


Chris Dodkin is correct. Costco uses great machines (not all the Costcos use the same printers though, so check Dry Creek Photo.). You bring your files on a CD with instructions not to make any corrections, and they come out the way you want them. Saving $.10 per print isn't making you unprofessional (making $5 versus $5.10 profit a print is wrong?). You are still processing the pictures yourself, making them look the way you want. Costco, if you use them correctly, is simply printing what you have worked on.

That said, I use ProDPI in Cali, because I don't have a Costco in Louisville (actually, they just built one, but I don't have membership anymore). I like ProDPI better than MPIX ; )




Nov 05, 2006 at 08:41 AM
tkoet
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · Does anyone use Costco as their lab??


some of the threads here that get traction kill me.


Nov 05, 2006 at 10:33 AM
mylissa
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · Does anyone use Costco as their lab??


what lab are you going with for your sports? i mainly do sports and in the past have used mpix, but i'm trying to decide who to use this year.

thanks!

mylissa



Nov 05, 2006 at 10:37 AM
Chris Dodkin
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · Does anyone use Costco as their lab??


Brutus_B wrote:
This isnt quite the truth. The staff may not "touch" an image but they do have alot to do with the quality of output.

Frontiers, Noritsu's and any other machine still needs to be calibrated and maintained.

Please explain why if these machines are so totally foolproof that I can send in identical files weeks apart and get vastly different outputs at the local WalMart then ? I know for a fact my file didnt change so its got to be the machine.

I dont know, Im not telling anyone what to do, but after spending tens of thousands on the
...Show more

So, if you sent the same file to two locations - did you first do color pre-press calibration for that file for each of the printers?

i.e. a completely different color space set-up for each file? So you'd have two versions of the file, one for each lab.

if you didn't, and it sounds like you didn't, then that's why you got different output from the two labs.

The machines at CostCo or anywhere else, are calibrated and the profiles regulularly tested and uploaded to drycreek.

These profiles allow you to compensate for the variations that occur between machines, and get consistant prints that always match your calibrated monitor.

The staff purley need to run the machine, with all corrections switched off, for your calibrated files to print properly.

The rest of your post is purely your view that expensive photography shouldn't use a print machine where the costs are lower than one labelled 'pro'.

I can't help you with that.



Nov 05, 2006 at 10:49 AM
jefft
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p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · Does anyone use Costco as their lab??


As long as Costco accepts business memberships and defers sales tax using your Tax ID which is for Resale only no one should have a problem reselling the prints. I use Costco and Sams Club for my small 4x6 prints.Up to 11x14 sizes depending on what paper I want to be used.Fancy stuff has to go to another lab.In the small sizes I find it equal quality to two local pro labs and at a much lower price allowing me to give hundreds of 4x6 prints in place of a proof sheet to almost any job I shoot. Weddings get 4x6 prints to pick what they want for the album, magazines I shoot for get 4x6 to pick the cover shot they want to use. Beats tiny 2" proof sheet images any day.My clients know they are paying for my knowledge and vision to make them look good with my camera. They also know 8x10 prints run from $1.50 - $7.00, not the hundreds I charge for the shoot. The rest is for my time and knowledge. Same thing if you call a plumber. That $1.00 washer cost $150.00 because he knows how to fix it without removing the whole wall. You pay for time and knowledge.
Another nice thing about Costco and Sams. If they do a print that does not come out as I think it should they do it over without question. This includes over 600 I did several months ago and the color was off due to a technical problem with a machine. No questions asked, just reprinted after the machine was adjusted. My local Pro lab where I do my larger prints wanted to argue over a color issue last week and that was on only one print!



Nov 05, 2006 at 01:55 PM
Brutus_B
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p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · Does anyone use Costco as their lab??


Chris Dodkin wrote:
So, if you sent the same file to two locations - did you first do color pre-press calibration for that file for each of the printers?

i.e. a completely different color space set-up for each file? So you'd have two versions of the file, one for each lab.

if you didn't, and it sounds like you didn't, then that's why you got different output from the two labs.

The machines at CostCo or anywhere else, are calibrated and the profiles regulularly tested and uploaded to drycreek.

These profiles allow you to compensate for the variations that occur between machines, and get consistant prints
...Show more


No, I was saying that Ive taken the same file to get printed at the same location and gotten back different results over a matter of weeks. Thusly things change with the machine calibrations.

The whole fact that DryCreek needs to have profiles for so many locations dispite the machines being the same also helps showcase how all these machines are calibrated differently, and maintained differently. They are not one size fits all. You can guarantee me that if I take a file to a Costco in one state, and to another in a different state that I will get the same output. Even different locations in the same city can differ.

Some locations are going to have top notch staff. Some locations are going to some staffing problems. Its hit or miss, thats why some people will report great results and you'll hear other people report poor prints.

All depends on where you go, the machines they use, the state of maintainance they are in etc.

This isnt to say Costco is good or bad, but simply that each location, and its staff can and will affect your print output.


As for my opinion on using a pro lab, or a Costco, its simply that, opinion. Its no different than choosing to buy store brand soda or Coke. To each his own. I just think if you make an effort to deliver the best in every other aspect of your phtoograhy, you might as well use the best lab you can find as well. Its like why buy the sharpest lenses you can and then get a cheap tripod just to save a few bucks.



Nov 05, 2006 at 03:38 PM
Chris Dodkin
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p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · Does anyone use Costco as their lab??


Brutus_B wrote:
No, I was saying that Ive taken the same file to get printed at the same location and gotten back different results over a matter of weeks. Thusly things change with the machine calibrations.

The whole fact that DryCreek needs to have profiles for so many locations dispite the machines being the same also helps showcase how all these machines are calibrated differently, and maintained differently. They are not one size fits all. You can guarantee me that if I take a file to a Costco in one state, and to another in a different state that I will get
...Show more

So, when you took the same file to this location twice - had you done your color pre-press calibraion for THAT SPECIFIC PRINTER on that file?

So you could tell the staff to print the pre-profiled file with NO CORRECTIONS on the print machine?

If not - then you leave it up to the opperator to set the appropriate color balance for you, and hence you get variation of color on prints depending on the views of that opperator.

You just gave up the control of your final image color!

The whole point is - if you do your own calibration of your own files, then you can set it up exactly or that specific output device. That's 1 printer - not a family of printers, one specific printer at one location, with 1 specific type of paper.

The fact that they all have different profiles should trigger a warning in your head - if you don't bother to take that into consideration, you cannot get consistant color output.

You completely failed to understand the point of the Drycreek profiles - it's not 1 profile for CostCo, and you can go anywhere to a CostCo and use that profile.

It's one profile per machine and paper type, which is updated at regular intervals, to keep it current. So it negates the machine differences etc.

So read the Drycreek website FAQs, and learn how to avoid the color issues you describe by correctly doing your own color pre press work.

Right now - you appear to have no concept of what I'm trying to explain to you.

If you did, you wouldn't keep going on about how the staff make a difference to your prints.

THE STAFF NEVER TOUCH YOUR IMAGE FILES IN ANY WAY IF YOU DO THINGS CORRECTLY!



Nov 05, 2006 at 04:18 PM
Chris Dodkin
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p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · Does anyone use Costco as their lab??


I'm thinking I need to spell out the colorspace workflow:

1) Set color space on your camera - choose a full gamut color space such as Adobe RGB - shoot RAW to avoid your camera making the color temp decisions for you

2) Calibrate your computer monitor - start HERE

3) Set default color space in Photoshop to match the camera, so Adobe RGB in this case

4) Import RAW file into photoshop, making decision on color temp etc

5) Edit image and store as PSD file to avoid any image compression or data loss

6) Assign image the color space profile from your chosen printer (downloaded from Drycreek)

7) You can compare the new image against the stored Adobe RGB version, either by flicking backwards and forwards in PS, or comparing it with a previous copy.

You'll see the color of the image with the printer color profile assigned has changed.

8) Use curves and other color balance tools in PS to modify the new file to get back to the color of the original Adobe RGB file

9) Save the modified file as a lossless TIFF with no color profile embedded

10) Take the TIFF to the lab - upload and tell the staff 'PRINT WITH NO CORRECTIONS ON THE CALIBRATED PRINTER'

11) Collect your print and marvel at how it looks just like the image on your computer screen

Far more detail @ DRYCREEK

Chris.



Nov 05, 2006 at 04:41 PM
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