The 1Ds-III or whatever they call it will be a known commodity next week. That and a few new lenses will surely make appearances. The Canon reps told us to look for product announcements on around the 26th.
timbop wrote:
It is an interesting idea, but I really don't think that they want to orphan EF-S after coming out with the 17-55IS 6 months ago. Even though they will sell more 400D's than the rest of their line combined, it just doesn't seem likely that the very expensive EF-S lenses can only fit 1 (new) camera body. There are those of use with existing crop bodies that might purchase such glass, but it seems like the resale market would be hurt badly by such a move.
Maybe the EF-S lenses will work on APS-H as well? When Canon originally released 1.3 crop cams (was that the D60 and D30), EF-S mount didn't exist yet, right, so it would make sense that these lenses wouldn't mate up to the old APS-H size.
echomancer wrote:
Maybe the EF-S lenses will work on APS-H as well? When Canon originally released 1.3 crop cams (was that the D60 and D30), EF-S mount didn't exist yet, right, so it would make sense that these lenses wouldn't mate up to the old APS-H size.
I guess it is possible, but it seems everyone assumes that the bigger mirror needed for the bigger sensor would clip the back of the extended EF-S lenses. I also think that they only project a big enough image circle to cover the APS-C sized sensor.
echomancer wrote:
Maybe the EF-S lenses will work on APS-H as well? When Canon originally released 1.3 crop cams (was that the D60 and D30), EF-S mount didn't exist yet, right, so it would make sense that these lenses wouldn't mate up to the old APS-H size.
The D-60, D-30, & 10D are all 1.6X cameras (APS-C) just as the 20D, 30D, and Digital Rebel series. The EF-S lenses are designed for the 1.6X crop on the 300D (Digital Rebel) and later APS-C cameras. If they could be mated to the 1.3X crop (APS-H), there would be vignetting issues as the image circle on the EF-S lenses is smaller in diameter and wouldn't cover the corners of the sensor.
The reason I ask is that this info is very consistent with my source (who visited an old school friend who was a EOS marketing / product development 'insider' in Canon Japan). He (on a mission from me to find out) seemed very confident, though (being back in early July) the dates were just all EOS cameras replaced 'by February / March 2007'. If your source is different and saying (basically) the same this helps (me at least) get more confident in the rumour. (As confident as you can be anyway!)
In which case I can seriously worry about whether to buy the 40D or 7D (and go full frame)... The fun of it!
Maybe the EF-S lenses will work on APS-H as well? When Canon originally released 1.3 crop cams (was that the D60 and D30), EF-S mount didn't exist yet, right, so it would make sense that these lenses wouldn't mate up to the old APS-H size.
There's EF-S and then there is "APS-C optimised" (think Sigma DC, Tokina DX and Tamron Di II). The trouble is that EF-S allows for a deeper extention into the camera, while DC and Di II simply stick to the smaller projection circle of APS-C.
Take the APS-C optimised Tokina 12-24 mm f/4 for instance. That lens is known to fit on a 1DII without any mirror-slapping antics. Ok, it vignettes heavily, but at least it works. EF-S lenses will not even fit to begin with.
This is pure speculation of what a new brand to be introduced in Photokina could be, if EOSfun did indeed provide accurate clues and we are to be positively surprised: a truly small size Canon camera body with
- EVF, without a mirror
- high quality sensor, APS-C with 10 MP (possibly more MP and APS-H or FF on a higher priced version)
- excellent high ISO performance
- EF-S mount, able to use all EOS lenses
- a few miniature size & weight exchangeable lenses, with smaller than APS-C size image circle
- automatic crop mode able to seamlessly use the actual image size provided by the mounted lens
- real time image output (WLAN?) for remote use - in a higher priced version
- video
- basic version priced below 400D
Would you buy one, if not to replace your DSLR but to complement it, or instead of a P&S?
echomancer wrote:
Maybe the EF-S lenses will work on APS-H as well? When Canon originally released 1.3 crop cams (was that the D60 and D30), EF-S mount didn't exist yet, right, so it would make sense that these lenses wouldn't mate up to the old APS-H size.
That would be vignette city! The easy way for Canon to think about it is that APS-H uses FF lenses - if the format gets into more general use, all they do is release something similar to the Sigma 12-24 for great WA.
Regards,
DaveMart
Koivulehto wrote:
This is pure speculation of what a new brand to be introduced in Photokina could be, if EOSfun did indeed provide accurate clues and we are to be positively surprised: a truly small size Canon camera body with
- EVF, without a mirror
- high quality sensor, APS-C with 10 MP (possibly more MP and APS-H or FF on a higher priced version)
- excellent high ISO performance
- EF-S mount, able to use all EOS lenses
- a few miniature size & weight exchangeable lenses, with smaller than APS-C size image circle
- automatic crop mode able to seamlessly use the actual image size provided by the mounted lens
- real time image output (WLAN?) for remote use - in a higher priced version
- video
- basic version priced below 400D
Would you buy one, if not to replace your DSLR but to complement it, or instead of a P&S?...Show more →
One of the many advantages of an EVF camera is that it would allow smaller. lighter, less complex lenses, as you don't have to worry about clearing the mirror.
It might therefore make sense to go to a new mount, so that Canon are effectively offering 'electronic rangefinder' lenses.
They could leverage the existing lens base by some kind of adaptor, which would let EF/EFs lenses function.
If they seee it as an electronic Leica, then two or three relatively wide primes and a fairly wide tele would do, with longer focal lengths catered for by the adaptor.
I had assumed that they would introduce EVF as an entry-level camera, and probably optimised lenses would not make sense for that market, but introducing it higher in the range makes sense too.
Incidentally, it might be possible to introduce some kind of video-like IS too! :-)
Regards,
DaveMart
I think a great idé should be to implement a function that detects an EF-S lens in 1.3x and FF bodys and automatically scales down to 1.6x crop. But ofcourse they need to fix the problem with the mirror hitting the back of the lens...
woofes wrote:
I think a great idé should be to implement a function that detects an EF-S lens in 1.3x and FF bodys and automatically scales down to 1.6x crop. But ofcourse they need to fix the problem with the mirror hitting the back of the lens...
I tried once, without thinking, to put a friend's Canon EF-S 10-222 on my 10D. It turns out that this is pysically impossible. Another reason why it will not work. You need to grind away either part of the mount, or part of the fitting to make it work.
Having said that, there have been users who have successfully modified either lens or 10D mount to fit EF-S on 10D. But that will not work for all EF-S lenses, some will hit the 10D mirror, others will clear it.
DaveMart wrote:
One of the many advantages of an EVF camera is that it would allow smaller. lighter, less complex lenses, as you don't have to worry about clearing the mirror.
It might therefore make sense to go to a new mount, so that Canon are effectively offering 'electronic rangefinder' lenses.
They could leverage the existing lens base by some kind of adaptor, which would let EF/EFs lenses function.
If they seee it as an electronic Leica, then two or three relatively wide primes and a fairly wide tele would do, with longer focal lengths catered for by the adaptor.
Let's speculate a bit more of how Canon might approach this (if they really would be on this track):
- It would be much better for EF lens brand if EF lenses would fit directly in the new body
- For long/big EF lenses, the main challenge in designing a miniature body is to reach good ergonomics for holding the lens. This is easier to accomplish if Canon can use the existing lens-sensor depth for the body alone, without splitting it between the adaptor and the body
- For new miniature lenses, branded e.g. as EF-M, maintaining full EF-S compatibility doesn't need to cause a real body+lens overall size penalty, because the new lenses can be designed inside the mount (= approximately flush with the body), providing the manual focus and zoom control issues can be solved
Of course Canon might use the adaptor approach in spite of the reasoning above.
Koivulehto wrote:
Let's speculate a bit more of how Canon might approach this (if they really would be on this track):
- It would be much better for EF lens brand if EF lenses would fit directly in the new body
- For long/big EF lenses, the main challenge in designing a miniature body is to reach good ergonomics for holding the lens. This is easier to accomplish if Canon can use the existing lens-sensor depth for the body alone, without splitting it between the adaptor and the body
- For new miniature lenses, branded e.g. as EF-M, maintaining full EF-S compatibility doesn't need to cause a real body+lens overall size penalty, because the new lenses can be designed inside the mount (= approximately flush with the body), providing the manual focus and zoom control issues can be solved
Of course Canon might use the adaptor approach in spite of the reasoning above....Show more →
I don't know enough about lens and camera design to make any authoritative comments, but my assumption was that if you used EF lenses without an adaptor, then if you had designed the body optimally to take account of the lack of a mirror, then you might have problems.
Hence my suggestion of an adaptor.
Of course, you could make the camera fully compatible with EF, but then you mihgt have to compromise the body design.
Let's not forget that Canon make money selling lenses, so they might be able to make some extra money if they could sell 'EVF optimised' lenses! - without destroying their customer base, of course.
Regards,
DaveMart
The distance between mount plane and sensor plane is pretty big. It doesn't matter that EF-S is allowed to extend deeper into this space, the sensor/mount distance is a few cm.
So, there is a lower limit to how thick/deep an EF-compatible digicompact can be. Of course, this could be solved by using a spacer ring. Its native lenses, designed with a closer rear-element to sensor distance, would go on directly and EF(s) lenses would go on with an exention piece.
But we've seen from the Leica M8 problems that you can not easily use a short sensor-lens element distance without running into problems. The increased angle of incident light at the sensor edge causes unsharpness.
), EF-S mount didn't exist yet, right, so it would make sense that these lenses wouldn't mate up to the old APS-H size.
