'Unofficial' Photokina RUMOR Thread

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Archive 2006 · 'Unofficial' Photokina RUMOR Thread

fraga
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p.48 #1 · 'Unofficial' Photokina RUMOR Thread

Of course.
But there was a lot of rumours around regarding a new 1DM3.
I guess that that won't happen this year.

I was just giving you guys news about this particular model.
I am not interested on a 1Ds3, because it would be out of my budget.

I already asked about other news, specially the 5d.
Let's see if he answers.

Sep 04, 2006 at 09:32 PM

FAU4U
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p.48 #2 · 'Unofficial' Photokina RUMOR Thread

Now we all know Aug 24th is not the time/date for Canon “flagship” announcements; For those that think Canon will not release/announce a new offering at Photokina-2006...

Do you all really think Canon will go home with nothing more to offer at Photokina. Please. Canon did not obtain its present day “leadership position” in this industry buy “following” or making excuses. Casnon is “leading” the industry, year-after-year with the competition trying to catch-up. Canon cannot stop. And fortunately the competition (now with SONY in the running) will continue to be running hard right behind Canon, in case they trip. This keeps the pressure of improvement and pricing in line.

In the 3rd week of September we’ll see something in the pro line-up from Canon; If Canon did the 1DsMk2N trick, adding the same menu of extras presented for the 1Dmk2N, that wouold be very unimpressive move for 2 years of development. That will not happen. I’d fire the development team…

Hopefully new Canon flagship camera will be a 22MP 1Ds3 with some very neat tweeks, like, (my whislist):

a. Improved firmware, menues, internal processing; top-of-the-line Picture Styles capabilities, not existing in any present day “N” upgrades.

b. LCD screen resized from its LCD 2” display, to 2.50” 2.75” or 3.00.” Perhaps leaving LCD for OLED design; Canon has already announced that their whole line-up will migrate towards OLED screens in a year or two; perhaps this flagship camera will be the first for Canon.

b2. Dual Card Slots,,, change configuration to TWO Compact Flash Card slots, and provide CF-to-SD adapter in Box. Having one of each is terrible idea. I am presently on CF cards and would perfer to have 2nd slot CF type for auto switch-over to slot #2 when 1st CF card is full...

c. GPS capability; USA law enforcement and photo-journalism have been screaming for this for several years; this may be the year for this capability.

d. In-Camera connectivity capability, 802.11a/g/n.

e. Changes like battery redesign to LiON may wait for the EOS-1Dx release, with the body trimming for the cross-over 1D/1Ds camera design. This could also be the OLED screen commencement.

I took a moment to read the “leaks” from prior years on various sites, to see when they told any “truths.” There was little truth told. Most were quite inventive, however, off-point, until about a week prior to show-time. They were also talking of 22MP over 2 years ago. That would have been quite a jump 11MP to 22MP; I guess the math was easy, 2x… Intereting perspective.

What do you all think.

Jim

Edited by FAU4U on Sep 04, 2006 at 07:02 PM GMT

Sep 04, 2006 at 09:50 PM

fraga
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p.48 #3 · 'Unofficial' Photokina RUMOR Thread

I'm sure there will be news, specially a new body.
I'm expecting some new lenses, too.

I was just hoping for either a new 1DM2 (according to that dealer, it's not going to happen) or an improved 5d.
Let's see what he has to say about this.
Tomorrow I'll post his reply.

Sep 04, 2006 at 09:59 PM

A Munro
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p.48 #4 · 'Unofficial' Photokina RUMOR Thread

I would be surprised if nothing else was announced in the last days leading up to Photokina. As many have stated, Canon has been dominating the DSLR market for the last few years, but has seen Nikon aggressively closing the gap and Sony jumping in to grab a share of the consumer market with a good product and great branding. For Canon not to come out with a significantly strong product would mean that something has gone horribly wrong with their development team. They cannot sit back and release middling, token updates such as the 1D MkII N and the 30D and expect their following to meet these meagre offerings wide-eyed. A Rebel XTi isn't going to cut it, and will not preserve market position in the wake of the D80 and Sony Alpha releases.

The fact that two new EF lenses were announced clearly indicates that Canon is hard at work on full frame sensors and is not interested in putting significant effort into the release of quality EF-S lenses. This is echoed in their white paper touting the benefit of full frame sensors. Of course, for full frame sensors to do anything, they need to be in cameras, and their existing models are quite long in the teeth.

If Canon does not come up with a pro body before PMA 2007 they will be in a world of hurt, watching sales of 30Ds and MkII Ns erode as consumers switch to D200s and D2xs. Canon glass is nice, but noone is going to sit around and polish lenses all day long waiting for a decent body to put them on. My money is on Canon to release a camera in the 5D to 1Ds range this autumn.

Sep 04, 2006 at 10:14 PM

fraga
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p.48 #5 · 'Unofficial' Photokina RUMOR Thread

I will find it very strange if canon does not improve the 1DM2N, since it is a professional camera that carries an "old" sensor with "only" 8.2MP.
Before everyone jumps out on me stating that MP is not the holy grail of photography, allow me to explain my POV.

It's not all about MP's.
It's about IQ.
The 5d has a fabulous sensor, regardless of MP'.s The second best, or even, according to some (including me) possibly the best sensor around, despite the fact that the 1DsM2 features a 16.7MP sensor.
The 5d's image quality is just outstanding.

And now we possibly have one more non professional camera, the 400d, with a better sensor. Even worse, it's an entry level camera!
My point is if the 400d sensor proves to deliver the same level of DR, sharpness and low noise at high iso as the 20d, then I believe it's same to assume that it is a (slightly) better sensor than the 1DM2N's!!!

Will the canon lineup feature a entry level camera with a better sensor than a professional camera?

Sounds strange to me...

Sep 04, 2006 at 10:36 PM

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p.48 #6 · 'Unofficial' Photokina RUMOR Thread

I am expecting another announcement this year (at Photokina). Locally, the 5D and, more importantly, 1DIIn prices have fallen quite sharply in the recent few weeks. Canon Australia NEVER discount stuff until the last minute before a replacement is announced (and sometimes not even then!). While I do not expect the 5D to be replaced yet (maybe next year, but it's a little too soon right now), I would not be surprised if a new EOS 1 body was announced in the next few weeks.

Time will tell...

Sep 05, 2006 at 03:43 AM

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p.48 #7 · 'Unofficial' Photokina RUMOR Thread

If the 400D is ready, the new 1D series body should be ready too . I think we will have a new Pro body in Photokina.

Sep 05, 2006 at 04:47 AM

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p.48 #8 · 'Unofficial' Photokina RUMOR Thread

>> If Canon has a DIGIC III-based body, welcome to a new era in digital photography.

Why? What is wrong with DIGIC II? After all, it is doing a great job so far.

Sep 05, 2006 at 07:27 AM

MaxiKana
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p.48 #9 · 'Unofficial' Photokina RUMOR Thread

Yakim Peled wrote:
>> If Canon has a DIGIC III-based body, welcome to a new era in digital photography.

Why? What is wrong with DIGIC II? After all, it is doing a great job so far.

It's not fast enough for FF 8fps for example.

Sep 05, 2006 at 08:02 AM

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p.48 #10 · 'Unofficial' Photokina RUMOR Thread

>> It's not fast enough for FF 8fps for example.

And exactly how many are craving for this (and are willing to pay the price)?
How many complaints do you hear from 1D Mk II/N owners or 1Ds Mk II owners that they just NEED both FF and 8 fps?

Sep 05, 2006 at 08:15 AM

marks.
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p.48 #11 · 'Unofficial' Photokina RUMOR Thread

I'm not complaining about the fps rate on my 1DS M2 but i do hate the fact, that when i shoot more rapidly (RAW) the buffer fills up rather quickly and to then clear it (aka write on CF cards) takes forever (especially with people on set, anxious to get out of the studio).
But that might be something for a later release, we'll get what's already packed and ready to ship.
(Imagine, people used and still shoot 8x10 and I’m complaining.)

Sep 05, 2006 at 09:29 AM

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p.48 #12 · 'Unofficial' Photokina RUMOR Thread

I am positive that DIGIC III will soon come and will offer great advantages to DIGIC II but the constant crave for what we don't have often blinds us to the wonderful things we already have.

Sep 05, 2006 at 09:54 AM

Pixel Perfect
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p.48 #13 · 'Unofficial' Photokina RUMOR Thread

mholdef wrote:
Yakim Peled wrote:
>> A full frame 3D with 16MP and higher frame rate would be great.

Will a 13MP 1.3X do?
http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic2/429970/8
:-)

Why not go for something that does full frame at 17MP and 1.3x at 13MP? That would be superb.

Mark

Your maths is wrong. A FF with 17MP = 1.255x crop with 10.8MP.

Sep 05, 2006 at 10:28 AM

DaveMart
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p.48 #14 · 'Unofficial' Photokina RUMOR Thread

New 40D:
'Launch date: 26/9

1.6x 10M CMOS senor
Anti-dust feature
2.5 inch LCD
9 focus points
5 fps
CF '
From :http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=19890732
For those who are not familiar with him, he often although not always seems to have good intel.
Personally, it think it sounds dreary, and the high ISO performance of the 400D does not encourage me to expect much- can't understand why Canon would bother doing an upgrade after only 6 months if that is all it is.
Regards,
DaveMart

Sep 05, 2006 at 01:33 PM

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p.48 #15 · 'Unofficial' Photokina RUMOR Thread

DaveMart wrote:
New 40D:
'Launch date: 26/9

1.6x 10M CMOS senor
Anti-dust feature
2.5 inch LCD
9 focus points
5 fps
CF '
From :http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=19890732
For those who are not familiar with him, he often although not always seems to have good intel.
Personally, it think it sounds dreary, and the high ISO performance of the 400D does not encourage me to expect much- can't understand why Canon would bother doing an upgrade after only 6 months if that is all it is.
Regards,
DaveMart

I can't imagine them replacing the 30D after 6 months for a minor sensor upgrade either. Don't jump down my throat about 10MPX being a leap in technology; it just wouldn't make sense to me for them to spend the R&D and any retooling effort to replace the 20D twice in 1 year.

Sep 05, 2006 at 01:44 PM

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p.48 #16 · 'Unofficial' Photokina RUMOR Thread

DaveMart wrote:
New 40D:
'Launch date: 26/9

1.6x 10M CMOS senor
Anti-dust feature
2.5 inch LCD
9 focus points
5 fps
CF '
From :http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=19890732
For those who are not familiar with him, he often although not always seems to have good intel.
Personally, it think it sounds dreary, and the high ISO performance of the 400D does not encourage me to expect much- can't understand why Canon would bother doing an upgrade after only 6 months if that is all it is.
Regards,
DaveMart

Wouldn't surprise me too much to see them drop the new sensor into the 30D. Makes sense as they eliminate one sensor that they need to manufacture which frees up some production capacity. What wouldn't make sense is calling it a 40D and trying to pawn it off as a new body. The scathing Internet blabber alone would make it a marketer's nightmare.
Call it a 30Dn and everyone would be cool with it I suspect.

Sep 05, 2006 at 01:48 PM

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p.48 #17 · 'Unofficial' Photokina RUMOR Thread

Yakim Peled wrote:
>> It's not fast enough for FF 8fps for example.

And exactly how many are craving for this (and are willing to pay the price)?
How many complaints do you hear from 1D Mk II/N owners or 1Ds Mk II owners that they just NEED both FF and 8 fps?

I'm one.

Sep 05, 2006 at 01:49 PM

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p.48 #18 · 'Unofficial' Photokina RUMOR Thread

fraga wrote:
I will find it very strange if canon does not improve the 1DM2N, since it is a professional camera that carries an "old" sensor with "only" 8.2MP.
Before everyone jumps out on me stating that MP is not the holy grail of photography, allow me to explain my POV.

It's not all about MP's.
It's about IQ.
The 5d has a fabulous sensor, regardless of MP'.s The second best, or even, according to some (including me) possibly the best sensor around, despite the fact that the 1DsM2 features a 16.7MP sensor.
The 5d's image quality is just outstanding.

And now we possibly have one more non professional camera, the 400d, with a better sensor. Even worse, it's an entry level camera!
My point is if the 400d sensor proves to deliver the same level of DR, sharpness and low noise at high iso as the 20d, then I believe it's same to assume that it is a (slightly) better sensor than the 1DM2N's!!!

Will the canon lineup feature a entry level camera with a better sensor than a professional camera?

Sounds strange to me...

Isn't the 5D's sensor just a 1D Mark II N's sensor with the missing pixels from the crop?

Sep 05, 2006 at 01:54 PM

Yakim Peled
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p.48 #19 · 'Unofficial' Photokina RUMOR Thread

>> 1.6x 10M CMOS senor
Anti-dust feature
2.5 inch LCD
9 focus points
5 fps
CF

Very logical. It's basically a 30D + the 400D's sensor and Anti-dust feature. Not very tough to implement.

>> I'm one.

O.K.
You and the other three will just have to wait a bit more till uncle Canon brings you a nice DIGIC III when he comes back from Japan.... :-)

Sep 05, 2006 at 01:57 PM

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p.48 #20 · 'Unofficial' Photokina RUMOR Thread

timbop wrote:I can't imagine them replacing the 30D after 6 months for a minor sensor upgrade either. Don't jump down my throat about 10MPX being a leap in technology; it just wouldn't make sense to me for them to spend the R&D and any retooling effort to replace the 20D twice in 1 year.

Perhaps this new sensor and cleaning technology were supposed to be in the 30D in the first place? Think of it as a replacement for the 2 year old 20D instead of a replacement for the 6+ month old 30D, since the latter was just a minor adjustment anyway.

Sep 05, 2006 at 02:14 PM

jwil
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p.48 #21 · 'Unofficial' Photokina RUMOR Thread

Sep 05, 2006 at 02:33 PM

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p.48 #22 · 'Unofficial' Photokina RUMOR Thread

cwphoto wrote:
fraga wrote:
IIt's not all about MP's.
It's about IQ.
The 5d has a fabulous sensor, regardless of MP'.s The second best, or even, according to some (including me) possibly the best sensor around, despite the fact that the 1DsM2 features a 16.7MP sensor.
The 5d's image quality is just outstanding.

Isn't the 5D's sensor just a 1D Mark II N's sensor with the missing pixels from the crop?

Both sensors have equal sized pixels of 8.2 um. 5D was released later than 1D Mark II, so its sensor may have better manufacturing process, and possibly a different anti-aliasing filter, but I don't have any facts about them.

The equal pixel size unfortunately has meant that 1D Mark II (N) hasn't provided any improvement of the telephoto reach for the lenses a 5D owner has.

Sep 05, 2006 at 02:39 PM

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p.48 #23 · 'Unofficial' Photokina RUMOR Thread

jwil wrote:
Funny...I think someone mentioned this as a real possibility about 50 pages ago.

Ooops! Hopefully you can forgive me?

Sep 05, 2006 at 03:02 PM

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p.48 #24 · 'Unofficial' Photokina RUMOR Thread

JCDoss wrote:
timbop wrote:I can't imagine them replacing the 30D after 6 months for a minor sensor upgrade either. Don't jump down my throat about 10MPX being a leap in technology; it just wouldn't make sense to me for them to spend the R&D and any retooling effort to replace the 20D twice in 1 year.

Perhaps this new sensor and cleaning technology were supposed to be in the 30D in the first place? Think of it as a replacement for the 2 year old 20D instead of a replacement for the 6+ month old 30D, since the latter was just a minor adjustment anyway.

I understand what you are saying, but they can't just "drop-in" a new sensor to the 30D without renaming it in some way. So, it would at least have to be the 30Dn or mk2 or something. But that is beside the point, the real crux of what I was trying to say is that I can't see them coming out with what amounts to 2 fairly cosmetic changes to the 20D in the same year. IF they do update/replace the 30D in such a short time period IMHO it would have to have a lot more going for it than a 10MP self clean sensor. It would almost certainly have to be something more significant, perhaps an AF upgrade to the 5D, or maybe better ISO3200/ISO6400. But, if they did that then they would now have a $1500 camera that's arguably "better" than the 5D or even 1dm2n!

It just doesn't make sense to me for canon to try to push out a minor 30D update, even if you do call it an update to the 20D. I think it is far more likely that a 3d/5d replacement is looming on the horizon. They can live with slumping 30D sales until PMA, but not 1dm2n AND 5d sales.

Sep 05, 2006 at 03:12 PM

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p.48 #25 · 'Unofficial' Photokina RUMOR Thread

OH, I also forgot to point out that the 20D has better high ISO perf than the 350, so one would expect a 40D to have better high ISO sensor than the sensor placed in the 400. If the same sensor is used then at the very least they would have to enable ISO3200 on the 40D, which would make it seem odd that the 400 only goes to 1600. It could happen that the same sensor is in both, but it would seem odd to me. I am not sure, but I don't think they did this with anything but the 20d/30d. Not sure about the 10D and original d-reb.

Sep 05, 2006 at 03:20 PM


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