nikt wrote:
Mick, just so you know, I wasn't necessarily referring to you, but many others. Its going to happen, and it happening.
I'll respectefully disagree with your statement that the D200 is inferior in many aspects to the 20D. Since I use both cameras, and a 5D, I guess this is just my opinion.
The 20D sits between the D70s and the D200 in price and specs, market, functionality. Until the D200 came out, it was battleing it out with the D70s. It definately does compete with the D70s for that market share.
I just don't agree that Canon is letting down their community. I think they have set a clear path, if the 20D is not enough camera, then move to the 5D. Its just that some people will not agree with that path. I just don't think Canon would want to increase things like Megapixels and introduce higher noise levels.... thats the thing that would really kill Canon....Show more →
Thats the problem, Nik, I just don't see the 5D as an upgrade path from the 20D. Its a niche product despite Canons bleating about it being the future. A nice sensor but as an image capturing device, its a $100 upgrade if the sensor doesn't suit. Suits a specific kind of photography.
Crop cameras are not inferior, they just have a different set of compromises to FF ones. I like them, but have no weather-sealed, advanced AF, wi-fi enabled, fast body to upgrade to without stumping up $4000 for a 1D2n. There remains a huge gap in Canons range between the 20D and the 5D at double the price also, right where sales remain high. With 5D sales being slow everywhere (in the UK with the rebate, the street price has dropped 40% in six months. Unheard of drop), its clear that the market is there for a high end APS-C body.
I find it strange 'cos the 20D is already a good camera and the 30D looks like a good upgrade for the ageing 300D and D60 users. So if the the 30D isn't upto one's specifications, wouldn't you go a 1D MK II or 1DS MK II?
Both manufacturers, Nikon & Canon provide outstanding Professional, Semi pro and entry level cameras, its all about choosing the right one for you...
It won't drive people to upgrade from a 20D , but it is a decent upgrade to a very successful body. It protects Canon's market position. It should be called a 20Dn as most people have acknowledge, but OTOH its more substantial than the D70 -> D70s upgrade.
Spot meter, ISO in view finder, 1/3 ISO increments, bigger LCD screen, RGB histogram, more FPS...all the niggly things people grew tired of in the 20D have been fixed.
Its missing a brighter viewfinder and MLU though. Its definitely not a D200 killer -- there's no function to 'enable banding'..
PS I wish I could get a Nikon body and Zeiss wides with Canon sensors and zooms.
It would have been marketing suicide had they made alot of huge advancements to the 20D. They would have done what the D200 is doing to the sales of D2Xs. A 20D on steroids would have taken away sales from the 1D MKIIN. They don't want to take a whole lot of sales from their pro line. If you want more functions and feautures with that lens crop, then move to the 1D MKIIN....if you want full frame then 5D, and if the 5D doesn't have enough bells and whistles then on to the 1DsMKII.
Canon is not stupid and the 20D was/is a great camera as is anyway. So this upgrade isn't that big of a loss....Nikonians were making the same rationalizations when the D70s came out. If it ain't broke why fix it?
it's just canon's D70s. No biggy, just keep taking great shots with the 20D! It's amazing how long these threads hang on. So canon gave a lot of people what they've been asking for and a little cheaper!
Zachs wrote:
Go work for a newspaper...having a high ISO will become your best friend.
Well no, because if I did that I'd be wanting a Pro body anyway and not a semi pro one and then we aren't talking about the D200 or the 30D.
Personally I take pics I can enlarge if i want to, so would use the lowest ISO I can. If I knew I would have to use a high ISO I would only take the shot as a snapshot so I had a memory, and then I wouldn't care about noise. But thats just me.
Anyway, I don't see a problem with Canon new offering I just think labelling as a 30D was a mistake because its just an upgrade, not a new camera.
onder wrote:
New Canon 30D is letdown Canon people. I think Nikon is stand well for next year. And I glad to stay at Nikon. Thanks Nikon for D200 for the big improvement giving to us !
Sevgili Onder merhaba;
Bosver Canonu zaten keyifle kullaniyoruz Nikonlarimizi Saka bir yana Nikon zaten Canonun bosluklarini dolduruyor D200 tam 30D ile 5D nin arasinda Canon kendini vurmus olurdu D200 un speklerine es dege bir makineyi o fiyatta vermeye kalksaydi.Dolayisi ile cok sasirtici bir sey degil ama sende haklsini gunumuz D-SLR piyasasinda teknik spek de cok onem tasiyor.
So whats the big deal?
The Canon / Nikon sales situation is still status quo from where I sit.
The only difference I see is that Canon might actually have enough of the 30D`s on the shelf to sell to their customers.
Over two months down the road Nikon is unable to deliver but in trickling amounts. Making sensors that band isn`t easy ya know.
John
Except the discourse between Mert and Onder... that strained my brain. Anyhoo,
It seem's like the majority of the Nikon shooters have a fair respect for what the 20D and 30D are capable of producing. Aw c'mon guys, I thought I was gonna read some real "bashing" here
Qranc wrote:
Go figure, in that case I know a whole lot of "amateur" photographers whos only mode of earning a living is shooting with a camera with a non "professional" sensor in it. In fact an entire photog staff at a local paper, thats all they use! The fools, my goodness when will all these amateurs get a grip and stop doing a pro's work?
A lot of professional photographers have been using non-professional gear for years - doesn't change the fact that the 30D ain't a professional camera...
cwphoto wrote:
A lot of professional photographers have been using non-professional gear for years - doesn't change the fact that the 30D ain't a professional camera...
Yes and the comment quoted never intended to change such facts. It was a response to the following statment:
I believe Canon has made it clear that they will pursue both 135 and APS-C sized sensors, but the APS-C equipped cameras will never be "professional".
Reading it over again I see where the comment was intended specific to Canon. Canon APS-C cameras will never be built to rival the pro line. Initially I read it with a slightly different meaning.
cwphoto wrote:
You mean "moot".
Thaaaaats the fella lol
Must excuse any posts I make whilst at work, typing at speed in between working in a live tv situation often results in less than perfect postings sometimes as I have one ear and eye on other, more important things
In any case, my point was still valid even if I used the wrong word at the time
