D200 Banding is real.

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Archive 2005 · D200 Banding is real.

Kerry Pierce
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p.4 #1 · D200 Banding is real.

chemprof wrote:
Did you read the whole thread? IMO, those that are seeing this in only some of their images are either not looking in the right areas of their images, have too much detail to see it well, or not looking close enough. After figuring out the pattern of the problem, I can find it in ALL of the images taken with the D200 I just sent back. Low ISO, high ISO, NR, no NR, etc.

Gerald

I've read the whole thread. I haven't taken many shots with mine, but I've not seen any banding, at 200 to 300% viewing, with very heavy applications of contrast and sharpening, to bring out any defects.

Your unit would seem to be defective, but that doesn't mean that they're all like that.

Dec 24, 2005 at 06:14 PM

KURTZ
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p.4 #2 · D200 Banding is real.

Did you read the whole thread?

Don't get snotty

Dec 24, 2005 at 07:03 PM

genghis45
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p.4 #3 · D200 Banding is real.

tonyfield wrote:
genghis45 wrote:
It appears to me that all that is being accomplished here, is that you're softening the image---which has a secondary effect of visually deemphasizing the banding artifact.

I cannot see a decrease in sharpness / contrast. There is a psycho-visual effect that attributes "sharpness" to the banding since the banding is relatively sharp. This is the same effect as adding sharp noise to an image to increase the perception of sharpness. I suspect the algorithm he is using does nothing more than correct the imbalance in the bayerization of the image.

*****************************************************

If one carefully scrutinizes the edges, one can readily see a degradation in shapness after the processing.

Scott

Dec 24, 2005 at 10:15 PM

rob_r
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p.4 #4 · D200 Banding is real.

can't see this on my images.. hmm..

Dec 24, 2005 at 10:25 PM

Fundy
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p.4 #5 · D200 Banding is real.

chemprof wrote:
rocketpop wrote:
Wow... That image looks like corduroy

Not exactly what I had in mind when I bought the camera!

Gerald

Gerald,

Definitely print that out, pack the camera up and return it for a new one right away! Don't mess around with that.

Andrew

Dec 25, 2005 at 12:03 AM

johnnymg
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p.4 #6 · D200 Banding is real.

Kerry Pierce wrote:
chemprof wrote:
Did you read the whole thread? IMO, those that are seeing this in only some of their images are either not looking in the right areas of their images, have too much detail to see it well, or not looking close enough. After figuring out the pattern of the problem, I can find it in ALL of the images taken with the D200 I just sent back. Low ISO, high ISO, NR, no NR, etc.

Gerald

I've read the whole thread. I haven't taken many shots with mine, but I've not seen any banding, at 200 to 300% viewing, with very heavy applications of contrast and sharpening, to bring out any defects.

Your unit would seem to be defective, but that doesn't mean that they're all like that.

Kerry

Ditto for my D200. No "banding" when reviewing images at 100% mag.

I'm using N Capture 4.4 to open the NEF's. The 100% images look sweeeeeeeet.

JohnG

Dec 25, 2005 at 12:42 AM

Karen80
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p.4 #7 · D200 Banding is real.

No banding in mine either. One of the earlier posters seemed to indicate it was in NEF images only, and that it didn't appear in JPEGs generated in camera. This may indicate a software raw converter problem rather than a camera problem.

Dec 25, 2005 at 04:40 AM

Kerry Pierce
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p.4 #8 · D200 Banding is real.

Karen80 wrote:
No banding in mine either. One of the earlier posters seemed to indicate it was in NEF images only, and that it didn't appear in JPEGs generated in camera. This may indicate a software raw converter problem rather than a camera problem.

I've seen other comments suggesting that it was a NEF conversion problem. I suppose that could be so, but I am not seeing it with Capture 4.4 and the camera JPGs are fine.

I just downloaded Bibble 4.5 and tomorrow I will give that a go on the NEFs I have.

Fortunately, it doesn't appear to be a widespread problem, only affecting a few unfortunate users.

EDIT; I just remembered that a conversion util called Silkypix will convert d200 NEFs, and has a tool to remove banding. Dunno what they might know about the issue or if it is their conversion that causes it to begin with.

Edited by Kerry Pierce on Dec 24, 2005 at 11:54 PM GMT

Dec 25, 2005 at 04:49 AM

chemprof
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p.4 #9 · D200 Banding is real.

More likely you're losing detail in your jpeg compression. My jpegs had banding as well. I'm really glad that most of you are all seeming to be getting good cameras. I also hope that this thread helps some people find a problem quickly, should they have it.

Gerald

Dec 25, 2005 at 04:51 AM

chemprof
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p.4 #10 · D200 Banding is real.

KURTZ wrote:
Did you read the whole thread?

Don't get snotty

I had mentioned several times that it this effect was visible in every image. It's always a good idea to do all of the important background reading prior to drawing a conclusion or making a comment.

Gerald

Dec 25, 2005 at 04:54 AM

KURTZ
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p.4 #11 · D200 Banding is real.

I had mentioned several times that it this effect was visible in every image Actually you say "in nearly all images", not "every image".

Like I said, snotty.

I did read the entire thread, but I wanted to make sure it was not your settings since you seem somewhat excitable and jump to conclusions. I just got that impression from you overreacting when Nikon did not call you back or email you within 30 minutes.

Also, if you keep shooting the same stuffed animals everytime even if you are changing ISO the auto adjustments would still influence the quality.

I also thing this thread name should be changed to "D200 Banding is real, well maybe"

No more eggnog for me, I am starting to enjoy this bandy about banding. hiccup

Cheers,
Kurtz

Dec 25, 2005 at 05:27 AM

chemprof
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p.4 #12 · D200 Banding is real.

KURTZ wrote:
I had mentioned several times that it this effect was visible in every image Actually you say "in nearly all images", not "every image".

Like I said, snotty.

I did read the entire thread, but I wanted to make sure it was not your settings since you seem somewhat excitable and jump to conclusions. I just got that impression from you overreacting when Nikon did not call you back or email you within 30 minutes.

Also, if you keep shooting the same stuffed animals everytime even if you are changing ISO the auto adjustments would still influence the quality.

I also thing this thread name should be changed to "D200 Banding is real, well maybe"

No more eggnog for me, I am starting to enjoy this bandy about banding. hiccup

Cheers,
Kurtz

1. Guess what, Nikon NEVER called or e-mailed me back.
2. I shot nearly 200 images with the D200 I had under all different conditions, lighting, and settings. ALL OF THEM SHOWED BANDING.
3. For the D200 I had, BANDING WAS REAL.
4. Banding may or may not exist on any D200 you may be holding in your hands. I merely strongly recommend that individuals that just picked one up examine their images VERY closely to make sure this is not an issue, as it may not be noticeable in all areas of an image due to the image density.
5. Mid-tone areas will show the most obvious banding if your camera has this problem, EVEN THOUGH higher detail areas will ALSO show the problem, should your camera have this defect.

Merry Christmas to all, hope you all have a peaceful and joyous Christmas, without worries and with your families.

Gerald

Dec 25, 2005 at 01:24 PM

fotographer
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p.4 #13 · D200 Banding is real.

I have only had my D200 since Dec 22nd and have taken about 500 images. After reading some posts on this thread I examined about 100 of the images of various subjects at various ISOs and found absolutely no banding at all. In fact The images are coming out quite nice right out of the camera. Shooting RAW & JPG.

Dec 30, 2005 at 01:43 AM

Chipouille
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p.4 #14 · D200 Banding is real.

I have now more than 6500 ( !!! ) shots with my D200, working almost every day since I bought it on Dec. 15th. (Lucky me !)

I've noticed some very very faint banding in 3 ore 4 pictures at the very beginning - only in extremely dark areas. Since then, nothing. At all. Never came back again, I don't know what happened, but the "problem" (I could have been living with it) seems to be solved.

Strange...

Dec 30, 2005 at 01:59 AM

johnnymg
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p.4 #15 · D200 Banding is real.

Chipouille wrote:
I have now more than 6500 ( !!! ) shots with my D200, working almost every day since I bought it on Dec. 15th. (Lucky me !)

I've noticed some very very faint banding in 3 ore 4 pictures at the very beginning - only in extremely dark areas. Since then, nothing. At all. Never came back again, I don't know what happened, but the "problem" (I could have been living with it) seems to be solved.

Strange...

Dude..................... 6500 clicks. You da-man!

JohnG

Dec 30, 2005 at 02:01 AM

JamesMcClean
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p.4 #16 · D200 Banding is real.

All, I have just read this entire thread, no easy feat. I greatly appreciate Rico taking a scientific approach. I notice Fuji brags about their hexagonal sensor array as a prophylaxis against sensor grid artefacts. I am familiar with this issue in Landsat images, and algorithms are a solution to save affected photos.

May I propose a systematic test? Perhaps all afflicted banders could shoot an IT-8 or McBeth target in RAW, Manual, and at varying ISO's from low to high in maybe three groups, or steps of 100. Post some of the affected raw files and then we could possibly rule out software issues by having the gang run different software applications to see if the image bands. Maybe a new thread like "D200 banding diagnosis"?

Cheers, James McClean

Dec 30, 2005 at 08:19 AM

caero
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p.4 #17 · D200 Banding is real.

yeah it looks to me that the best test for this would be to shoot a grey card of sorts.

Could anyone with banding and a grey card try that and see if the banding is visible?

That would help out a lot of new D200 owners trying to figure out if something is wrong with their cameras.

Dec 30, 2005 at 10:21 AM

Bob B
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p.4 #18 · D200 Banding is real.

I just noticed that all the pictures I've seen with banding have been taken in landscape mode and the bands are vertical. Are there shots taken in portrait mode that show banding? More important, do the bands still parallel the short side of the shot, or are they also vertical? This may provide some insight.

Dec 30, 2005 at 03:26 PM

Mark Jamison
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p.4 #19 · D200 Banding is real.

jmcfadden wrote:
sorry about this Gerald, I sure they will get it straightened out. geezers , I wish these companies would get a freaking clue. Give the darn camera to 20 trusted shooters for a few weeks , then get together and sort thru the issues, it would Have to be cheaper than all the returns etc and frustrations and loss of face of doing it this way

J

Sounds great in theory, but even if Nikon doesn't do this already, how do you know it would fix anything?

So far, most people say they aren't seeing banding problems. So how many cameras were affected, and what caused it?

If the ratio is 1/50 for example, all 20 trusted shooters could have gotten good models, and everyone would be happy.

Look at it this way, at least it's not the banding issue that was had with every Canon 1D ever produced.

Dec 30, 2005 at 05:28 PM

TomB
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p.4 #20 · D200 Banding is real.

I took copies of 3 NEF files (along with a couple of 8x10 glossy prints at ~200% crop) that show banding from my D200 to Nikon in El Segundo, CA early this week.

Farsi, the Nikon technician, said it looked to him like there was a problem. But, this was the first D200 that had come to them and that there was a Japanese tech that was the person to examine the images and camera who would be back in the office after the first of the year. Farsi said that, at first, he thought there might be something set wrong in the camera, but he found nothing wrong there nor in the information stored in the NEF files.

The three shots that show the banding included a chandelier at the top edge of the frame with about a dozen light bulbs (25 - 35 watt each?) that are, of coures, blown out on the images. The banding is most noticeable in smooth, dark areas (dark hair, gray wall, dark wood table, deep maroon cloth table napkins) below those bulbs.

I have examined other images taken that night at 200% with blown out Christmas tree lights in the background (but not on any edge) and have found no indication of banding.

It'll be interesting to see what the Nikon says next week when I bring the camera back in to them.

- Tom

Dec 30, 2005 at 10:04 PM

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