Leica Digital M Lens Line-Up

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Archive 2005 · Leica Digital M Lens Line-Up

kidigital
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p.1 #1 · Leica Digital M Lens Line-Up

Since it's never to soon to begin to mortgage the house, raid the kids' college funds and/or fantasize about spending lottery winnings in order to put together a potential Leica Digital M lens line-up, I thought I'd ask for opinions on which Leica M lenses I should begin to ogle.

Assume that I am a Leica rangefinder neophyte (which I am) who will be approaching the category from a very positive Leica dslr experience.

Kurt

Nov 22, 2005 at 09:53 PM

jjlphoto
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p.1 #2 · Leica Digital M Lens Line-Up

Kurt-

I hear the 35/2, 50/2 and 90/2 are the ones to have.

Nov 22, 2005 at 09:57 PM

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p.1 #3 · Leica Digital M Lens Line-Up

Hey, don't miss out on the 28/2 Summicron. It is the bees knees and the cat's meow...
Stunning stuff. One of the best wides there is. I have been using it a few times (borrowed a friends outfit) and have always been pleased.

If the digiM ever comes out and I can afford it (a man can dream though) I'd be happy to have the 28/2 and the 50/2 and maybe the 90/2.8 (or f2) and leave it at that.

Nov 22, 2005 at 10:23 PM

Mr Joe
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p.1 #4 · Leica Digital M Lens Line-Up

My favorite focal lengths for a rangefinder are 21, 35, and 75.
The Leica 21/2.8, 35/2 ASPH, and 75 Lux or Chron are some of the finest 35mm optics available.

With the 1.3x crop factor of the Digital-M, this presents a problem. My 35/2 ASPH becomes a 46mm lens. The 21 becomes a 28mm. The 75 becomes a 100mm. These are not focal lengths that I prefer.

To get a 21mm, I need a 15mm lens. The Voigtlander lenses are great performers for the money, but comparing them to Leica lenses is Apples to Oranges in both build quality & performance. You get what you pay for.

For the 35mm focal length, the new Zeiss 25mm looks like a contender. Cameraquest has the best prices on these new M mount offerings from Zeiss, and Erwin Puts puts the Zeiss 25mm in the same league as the Leica 24mm Elmarit, which is a big complement. So for $900 + the hood, this looks like a good bet. Too bad it's f/2.8 maximum aperture.

For the 75mm focal length, I will probably try to track down a previous generation Leica 50mm Cron with the focusing tab for $500-600, although it's a 65mm not a 75mm on digital.

Unless you prefer a 0.85x magnification viewfinder, I think the 90mm focal length is much too long for a rangefinder camera.

Anyhoo, that's my 2 cents.

Nov 22, 2005 at 10:41 PM

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p.1 #5 · Leica Digital M Lens Line-Up

I have 21 elmarit apsh, 28 summicron asph, 35 summilux asph, 50 noctilux, and 50 summicron. I'm thinking about trading the 50 summicron in for a 75 summicron. That should cover both the film and eventually digital M range pretty well.

In order to put together this line up, I ended up selling ALL my canon L lenses, and just started to come back to my senses and bought back a few...

Very slippery slope indeed.

Nov 22, 2005 at 10:43 PM

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p.1 #6 · Leica Digital M Lens Line-Up

I have heard that Leica will release some lenses designed around the 1.3x crop factor along with the digital M. If they do it's probably a smart move.

Nov 22, 2005 at 10:59 PM

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p.1 #7 · Leica Digital M Lens Line-Up

Leica M 21, 24, 28, 35, 50, 75, & 90 are all great lenses. The 90 f2 APO is a bit large, and I do agree best used with a .85 viewfinder. Rangefinder cameras are built with wide angle lenses in mind, hence the longest lens Leica makes for the M line is a 135, which is tack sharp and an excellent lens, but you can't focus it very well on the rangefinder body, even with a .85 viewfinder. So the wider the better for a digital M. My own particular favorites using film are the 24 f2.8 ASPH, which practically lives on my M, and the 35 f1.4 for low light use. I will likely add a 21 myself, as that one I presently do not own. One of the few!...

. So a 21 gives me the feel of a 28, my 24 serves in place of my 35 with the loss of one stop (which I will miss greatly!) and my 35 f1.4 will serve in place of my 50 f1.4. For the money, the Summicrons in both 35mm & 50mm are a very good value, and excellent lenses on the M in my opinion.

Nov 22, 2005 at 11:15 PM

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p.1 #8 · Leica Digital M Lens Line-Up

You need the 21 ASPH, the 28/2, and the 35/1.4 ASPH. You of course also have to have the 50/1.4 ASPH, and 75/2 ASPH. Those 5 lenses will set you back about 12-15 grand. There is going to be a Zeiss 15 available for several thousand dollars too. That should be nice.

Nov 23, 2005 at 12:42 AM

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p.1 #9 · Leica Digital M Lens Line-Up

I have come to the conclusion that my most used lens was probably a 50mm, followed by the 35mm. With a 1.3 crop factor, this puts my 35mm Summicron ASPH as the prime lens, and probably my 24mm ASPH as the 35mm equivalent.

What has not been revealed by Leica is what frame lines will be in the Digital M. This will determine the ideal lens combo to use. The add on finders really are not that convenient to use.

If you were to start collecting Leica M lenses, you should probably start with one of the 35mm ASPH lenses. My preference was the Summicron over the Summilux. The 35mm Summicron ASPH slides, just had more brilliance to them compared to the ones I shot with the 35mm Summilux ASPH.

A recent vintage 50mm Summicron would be the next on the list. They can sometimes be found used in the $500-600 range. Avoid the older 50mm Summicrons. They cost as much as a recent version and have lower performance. I would guess any lens with a serial number over 3,000,000 would be the latest optical formula.

For the Bokeh seekers, a Noctilux is probably still the king. It take a lot of skill to use and is really not that useful for the head shots at three feet and F1. It is much better a few steps back. Any f1 noctilux is the same optical formula. The newer ones have sliding lens hoods.

My guess is my most used lenses on a digital M would be the 35mm Summicron ASPH, 24mm ASPH (if it has frame line built in), 50mm (Summicron or Noctilux). I also have a 90mm Elmarit-M, but barely use it now and don't expect to see it used any more on a digital M.

Nov 23, 2005 at 02:14 AM

johnkuo
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p.1 #10 · Leica Digital M Lens Line-Up

Noctilux is certainly one of a kind, but it's not a general purpose lens. They say it has a painterly brush. I probably should hold on to my 50 summicron with the 1.3x in mind. But I still want that 75 summicron so badly.

Nov 23, 2005 at 02:31 AM

Brian304
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p.1 #11 · Leica Digital M Lens Line-Up

I have been accumulating the M lenses. FWIW I had no trouble focusing the 135 Telyt on the 72 finder with the 1.25 magnifier. I also don't think the 90 ASPH is too big either. The 90 elmarit I have seems to weigh more.
I am shooting the Rd-1 now with 21, 24, 28, 35s, 50s. I find using the 75 or 90 without framelines is a bit tough. All of the above are really great lenses. I sold the Ms I had but missed them and rebought some used ones. The tick of the quiet shutter is magnificent.
Anyway are they going to make all the magnifications?
thanks
Brian

Nov 23, 2005 at 02:37 AM

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p.1 #12 · Leica Digital M Lens Line-Up

Love my Leica M equipment and lenses but IF E. Leitz ever comes out with a interchangeable lens digi-M-cam, I'm not gonna support them any further (i.e. with MY future lens $$$) if it's less than full frame.

And I'm almost willing to bet they're not gonna risk alienating too many wide-angle lens owners who have paid the previously-referenced fortunes for those killer 35mm f/1.4 Summilux wide-angle lenses, for example, that would shoot as a 45mm "normal lens" on, say, a 1.3X "crop" factor.

A real hallmark of Leica M optice is the MTF as it relates to the reproduced image across the entire F.O.V. - EDGE SHARPNESS! - and paying enormous sums of cash only to have that valuable feature removed is worse than irritating.

In any event, I'm already eye-balling the ultra-wide Zeiss-Ikon T* ZM series lenses (www.zeissikon.com/lenses.htm) for future "M-mount" lens additions.

1, No current 15mm optics in the M family - and the Zeiss-Ikon is a mouth-watering f/2.8 in the Distagon formula.

2, The equally yummy Zeiss-Ikon ZM T* 21mm f/2.8 is from their legendary Biogon optical family so BOTH of these should be on any serious Leica M-body lens owners shopping list.

"IMALOO". =

Ha! Ha!

Rgds,

(p.s. Can't turn a blind eye to the new Voigtlander group of lenses either. Not all of them anyway. For the price, they're testing impressively. If Leica makes a true "M-mount" digi-cam, almost all of the screw-mount-lenses-with-adapter ever made are fair game!)

Nov 23, 2005 at 02:53 AM

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p.1 #13 · Leica Digital M Lens Line-Up

Kurt,
I already feel like I've got one foot in my financial grave and the other on a banana peel

If I do go the Digital M route, it will strictly be on the wide end. Now where have I heard that before

David

Nov 23, 2005 at 03:34 AM

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p.1 #14 · Leica Digital M Lens Line-Up

Well your in for a rude surprise the Digital M is 1.3 crop factor just like the DMR

Source of your information? (BTW, it's "you're")

I won't be the only one in for a "rude surprise". It's no secret that E. Leitz is in constant financial stress. Prices keep rising out-of-control and their sales continue to fall as a result. ("The old gray mare, she ain't what she used to be ...")

If Leitz causes all of us loyal owners to lose out on the M-optics / digital body game, I won't be the only person leading the parade away from Solms' products. That's a fact!

The Epson R-D1 (Cosina / Voigtlander-made) was produced in such limited quantities because 1), Epson wanted to keep the price up to re-coup it's costs and 2), it was probably a "test-mule" of sorts to see what the "digital M" market would tolerate in the way of coverage loss (i.e. effect of the ~1.5X crop factor on users.)

Yeah, they're (Epson R-D1's) hard to come by - none at less than list price. To me, there's NO #@&^%? WAY I'm gonna pay 3 grand for a digital body only to have it turn my 28mm lens into a 42-43 mm lens!!!

Been there ... done that (with my dSLRs).

Leica is - in my opinion - gonna show up at the digital dining table with too little, too late on the plate. And, as always, too expensive.

I repeat: If it (a 1.3X digital M body) kills the marvelous wide angle view and edge quality we've all paid a wad of dough for, I think THEY'RE (E. Leitz) in for a rude surprise, too.

No question, there are Leica-philes out there that will sell their souls for a true digital-M body. Prices will be the budget of some 3rd world countries ...

I'm no longer one of their customers - for new OR used equipment - if that's the case. Not even if I win the PowerBall !!!

Rgds,

Nov 23, 2005 at 04:27 AM

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p.1 #15 · Leica Digital M Lens Line-Up

My $0.02 on a lens set, Leiica did a study many years ago when film ruled the earth and Kodachrome was king. They found that the ideal focal lengths were 28, 50 and 90. You can mortgage the house, sell your first born or sell a kidney, you are born with two and can function with one :-) . My suggestions regardless of crop factor would be the new 28 Asph, third generation 35 Summicron (last one before the Asph), 50 Summicron, 90 Elmarit latest version. Why? The new 28 is great but costs $$. The 35 Summicron can be bought for about $550 and is very compact. 50 Summicron is very well corrected and can be bought for $550 as well. The 90 Elmarit is not as fast (2.8) as the Summicron (2.0) but can be bought for $500. Most Lecia users baby their equipment and the used market for M equipment is soft now. You can buy a great set of lenses for less than one brand new 90 Asph Summicron. I have owned the 35 Summicron and now own the 35 Asph, subtle difference in quality. The Leica viewfinder has crop lines for lenses as wide as 28 mm, .58x viewfinder, for lenses wider than that you need to use a viewfinder mounted on top of the camera. I also have the 15 Voightlander lens but don't use it that often, I find the focal length too wide. Shooting a wide angle on a rangefinder is a bit tricky. Even with a 1.3 crop factor, the 28 will be a 35, a perfect focal length for the Leica. If you have just won the lottery, by all means go for all new glass 28 Asph, 35 Asph, 50 Asph, 90 Asph.

Nov 23, 2005 at 04:47 AM

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p.1 #16 · Leica Digital M Lens Line-Up

Nothing like using leica glass on a leica body

Mostly, yes. But opinions are due for a shift, I'll bet.

Also bet that 15mm f/2.8 Zeiss-Ikon ZM T* will find it's way onto more than one Leica M-digital. It has to! That'll be the only "true" high-quality wide angle glass unless "der wunderkind von Solms" get their act together. 15mm X 1.3 .... a 19.5. Better than anything Leica currently offers!

As to the article, it's just what I said earlier: Leica camera sales are DOWN! That particular division is being "floated" by sales of binoculars, scopes and rangefinders of the Leica sports optics division.

Same old same old .....

Rgds,

Edited by go4it on Nov 23, 2005 at 12:59 PM GMT

Nov 23, 2005 at 05:17 AM

Mozbee
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p.1 #17 · Leica Digital M Lens Line-Up

When I bought my M6, the salesman told me that I should either buy a 35mm or a 50mm. I went for the 35mm because I think wider is more in the spirit of the M, but a lot of M owners would prefer the 50mm for their uses. A basic M is usually having a 35mm or a 50mm.

What I would consider easily is : 28mm (36), 35mm (46), 50mm (65).
Wider? Only if there's frame lines for it. From my experience, I hate a separate viewfinder! Some candid shots fan would pick 21mm or 24mm. Both can be selected based on focal usage, they are both awesome.
Longer? A 75mm is turning into 98. That's seem to be to long for my .72 magnified format. I would recommend any longer lens than 50mm only to people with a .85 magnified format and/or with the x1.25 viewfinder added lens. Some people love that setup! For me, I would probably prefer to get a DSLR at that point!

28, 35, 50 : For each of these focal lengths, as a general rule, you pay for what you get! Crons seem to be the best ones (center to corners), Luxes for low light or "creamy and butter" look, and Elmarits for budget. That said, the 28 cron and 50 lux, more recent, are known to have an edge on the other ones, as are the new 75 cron and the 90 cron! These are bleedingly sharp lenses! I now have the impression to speak like Guy Mancuso. Too much DMR reading!

Nov 23, 2005 at 02:30 PM

Mozbee
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p.1 #18 · Leica Digital M Lens Line-Up

zaknat wrote:
Kurt,
I already feel like I've got one foot in my financial grave and the other on a banana peel

If I do go the Digital M route, it will strictly be on the wide end. Now where have I heard that before

David

David,
If I understood you well, "wide end" means equal or under 135mm, right?

Nov 23, 2005 at 02:58 PM

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p.1 #19 · Leica Digital M Lens Line-Up

Fortunately or unfortunately, David's slippery slope is Mt. Everest.

That 50/1.0 Noctilux certainly looks like it would be a lot of fun to use. I'm sure that it would take some work mastering it, however. Anybody have any samples of anything shot with it?

Kurt

Nov 23, 2005 at 03:55 PM

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p.1 #20 · Leica Digital M Lens Line-Up

One foot in the grave and one on a banana peel. That's the funniest thing I've heard all week.

Nov 23, 2005 at 06:05 PM

go4it
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p.1 #21 · Leica Digital M Lens Line-Up

In all cases, if someone is planning to get into a genuine Leica rangefinder digital, they're just gonna have to wait. For the body anyway.

You can start stock-piling lenses if you can afford to ......

2006? I doubt it. It may be "announced and released" sometime (

?) next year but the entire Leica world-wide supply pipeline won't be filled up with them for a long, LONG time. Not even close ...

Sometime in 2007? Possibly but I still wouldn't hold my breath.

Leica loves the exclusivity of their products ... and their loyal customer base.

When it comes to maximizing what they can charge for their goods, less means more.

This is like dangling a carrot in front of the ox pulling the cart. Do it right and the stupid ox will do everything to get that carrot, including deal cards and serve coffee. Do it wrong - allow it to eat too many carrots - then the ox gets full and mystery is over.

If Guy Mancuso's Leica contact proves correct, then take every M-mount lens and LST (Leica screw thread) lens you currently own - or crave - and multiply the focal length by 1.3.

If you're a wide angle shooter, ya just got hosed!!! BIG TIME!!! Let the wailing and gnashing of teeth begin!!!

Spend USD 5k for a Leica Digital M (per Mr. Mancuso) and your 21mm loses a lot of "steam": It's now just short of a 28mm. That's it. That's all she wrote. mate! (That's as wide as you'll be shooting unless ...)

That "spent the kid's inheritance money" 24mm is now a rather ho-hum 30mm-and-change "wide angle". Ha! Some wide angle - 31mm?!?!

Your 28mm "morphs" into a 36-1/2mm. Ugh! Not good!

Your 35mm - in whatever flavor (not to worry; you no longer need it for wide angle use!) - is now your new normal lens. It's a 45-1/2mm when it starts lighting up pixels instead of sensitizing silver halide grains.

If you think that beautiful 50mm f/1/4 Summilux-M looks good as a "normal" lens, then you'll have to get used to it being a short telephoto - about 65mm.
Forget that 75mm you always wanted: You're almost there with the 50.

However, if you DO own a 75mm, it's longer than the current 90mm in your case - by almost 8mm.

Your 90mm zooms itself - plus that USD $ 5,000.00 body cost, of course - out to a robust 117mm length.

If your particular M-body currently accepts a 135mm lens and you can just shift it over to your new USD $ 5,000.00 digi-M body, you now have a whopping 175mm monster in your hands! Wow-EE!

===============

As with all dig-cams, wide-angle shooters get the shaft, telephoto shooters get more bang for the buck.

Some older wide-angle jewels Leitz made have limited compatability with modern M-series camera bodies. That's unlikely to change just because the body has a digital sensor instead of a film transport system.

Unless E. Leitz comes up with some "magic bullets" wider than their current lineup, they're gonna make some people unhappy and force others to jump ship.

Rgds,

Nov 23, 2005 at 06:46 PM

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p.1 #22 · Leica Digital M Lens Line-Up

OK .... with a 1.33X factor, my math corrections for wide-angle afficianados are even WORSE!

21mm = a hair short of a 28mm. Until those ULTRA-wide Leitz optics are available ... that 15mm f/2.8 Zeiss-Ikon ZM T* Distagon is starting to look MIGHTY appealing!!! (And Leitz KNOWS this too!!!)

24mm = an odd-ball (?) 32mm focal length ....

28mm = just over 37mm - - ANOTHER odd-ball length!

35mm = 45.5mm. As I said, say hello to your new "normal" lens .....

50mm = 66.5mm. M-body portrait shooters everywhere are rejoicing! And it could be a 66.5mm f/1.0 if your dad is a Middle Eastern oil sheik ...

75mm = Forget decimal points. This is a 100mm telephoto. If it happens to derive itself from the f/1.4 Summilux, SWEET!!!!

90mm = 120mm? I could enjoy this lens a LOT! Just not for a additional $ 5,000.00 buy-in! But a 120mm f/2 APO-Summicrom-M ASPH certainly IS an appealing tool!!!

135mm = Almost a 180mm f/3.4 APO-Telyt-M mid-tele!!! On a Leica M-body WITHOUT that clunky Visoflex!!!! YES!!!!!

The 28-35-50mm f/4 Tri-Elmar could come off smelling like a rose to those on a budget. Pick up one lens and get a 37mm-45mm-66mm zoom. I could live with that. Add that 15mm f/2.8 Zeiss ZM T* Distagon to replace what Leica took away ...

==========

Told my wife that if I die before she does, please cremate me with my Leica equipment. She smirked and said if the Leica equipment keeps getting more expensive, she'll smother me in my sleep, just throw the body by the side of the road ... and sell the Leica stuff and take that whirl-wind vacation she's always wanted.

oops ........................................

Rgds,

Nov 23, 2005 at 07:40 PM

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p.1 #23 · Leica Digital M Lens Line-Up

I have the 21 asph, 28 asph, 35 Summicron asph., 50 Summicron, and the 90 Summicron Apo.
I can tell you the new 28 apsh is the sharpest wide angle lens I have ever used. The 90 is the sharpest lens I have ever used. My friend also tells me the new 50 Summilux Asph is without excpetion the finest 50 ever made by anyone.

The 24 asph is suprisingly not as good as I had hoped for though.

Josef

Nov 23, 2005 at 08:31 PM

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p.1 #24 · Leica Digital M Lens Line-Up

Guy,

Leica rep here in LA pretty much said the same thing to me. Their goal is to have the digital M for under $5K which is surprisingly low to me.
I have spoken to current digital M tester and he has told me they are a bit off on their scheduled 2006 introduction as 2007 seems for realistic.

Josef

Nov 23, 2005 at 08:38 PM

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p.1 #25 · Leica Digital M Lens Line-Up

I have the 21 asph, 28 asph, 35 Summicron asph., 50 Summicron, and the 90 Summicron Apo.

You also have WAY too much disposible income! =

I can tell you the new 28 apsh is the sharpest wide angle lens I have ever used. The 90 is the sharpest lens I have ever used. My friend also tells me the new 50 Summilux Asph is without excpetion the finest 50 ever made by anyone.

Gee whiz, Josef, for the amount of money these things cost - I hope you'd expect nothing less! If I buy a Ferrari, I expect the damned thing to PERFORM like a Ferrari!

The 24 asph is suprisingly not as good as I had hoped for though.

Surprising. I've heard nothing but fantastic comments about it - just don't have the cash for one. Yet. (My wife is still looking over my shoulder!)

Buy it new? Still under warranty? If so, I'd try another one - maybe contact E. Leitz USA direct and squawk a bit.

Rgds,

Nov 23, 2005 at 10:53 PM


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