This won`t happen to Nikon..........

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uccmmcpo
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p.1 #1 · This won`t happen to Nikon..........

............at least not till the D200 surfaces .http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/292973
It appears Canon 5D sales is slowing sales of their top end dslr s (series 1 models) forcing prices to fall significantly. This also happened when the 20D appeared.
I`d have to assume that those who sell off their high end model and drop to the next level overbought in the first place only to get to the next level, however it`s very often the only way to upgrade at the time and that`s exactly what we Nikon users are faced with presently. The choices are simple but limited. It`s the D50/70s or all the way up to the D2X. Forget the DH2 with 4 MP`s @ $3500. It`s almost a joke.(Well maybe not for working PJ`s)
Nikon may well be forcing some converts to Canon with this gaping hole in their lineup but this 35mm sensored 5D priced at $3,295 simply has to be cutting into D2X sales.
I`m sure lots of folks seriously consider the $1700 difference in a D2X and a D5.
Cordial comments/replies are welcome.
John

Edited on Oct 13, 2005 at 11:48 PM

Oct 11, 2005 at 12:51 PM

oobie
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p.1 #2 · This won`t happen to Nikon..........

Go take some pictures.

Edited on Oct 13, 2005 at 11:48 PM

Oct 11, 2005 at 12:56 PM

John Rougeux
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p.1 #3 · This won`t happen to Nikon..........

Personally I don't think that the D2H or D2Hs is a joke. I have one and love it!

The D200 will come out when Nikon decides to release it. In the meantime, do what oobie says..Go take some pictures.

Edited on Oct 13, 2005 at 11:48 PM

Oct 11, 2005 at 01:03 PM

uccmmcpo
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p.1 #4 · This won`t happen to Nikon..........

The D2H series are a joke mainly in the sense of 4 MP resolution in relation to virtually every other dslr presently on the market.
And I normally do take pictures on a daily basis but wouldn`t mind something more towards a D2X but $5,000 these days for 10-12 MP`s is looking kinda steep.
You can`t keep ignoring what`s happening outside of the world of Nikon and I for one am waiting patiently for the D200. Obviously not everyone is though.
Hey ,it`s only conversation but it would be nice for us and Nikon to be more competitive.
Why get upset with the truth?
John

Edited on Oct 13, 2005 at 11:48 PM

Oct 11, 2005 at 01:23 PM

HankB
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p.1 #5 · This won`t happen to Nikon..........

Well. there is a huge difference between the D2X and the Canon 5D, the Canon 5D is a $3200.00 non pro body, I dont know about most folks out there but it is hard for me to get excited about spending $3000.00 on a non pro, non weather sealed, non vertical grip, 3 fps camera. Its not even in any kind of catogory as the D2X. In fact it is not even as well built as the D1X. The 5D looks like an overpriced 20d with slower frames per second.

Edited on Oct 13, 2005 at 11:48 PM

Oct 11, 2005 at 02:12 PM

HankB
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p.1 #6 · This won`t happen to Nikon..........

One other note, Nikon bodies have always held there value much more than Canon, starting with the Nikon F and all the way up. Look at how old and how much D1X's are still bringing. BH still has D1X for $2000.00. Look at Rebel's vs. D100 values. D100 are selling for almost twice what rebels sell for.

Edited on Oct 13, 2005 at 11:48 PM

Oct 11, 2005 at 02:20 PM

praveenk25
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p.1 #7 · This won`t happen to Nikon..........

uccmmcpo wrote:
The D2H series are a joke mainly in the sense of 4 MP resolution

I've used (and still using

Oct 11, 2005 at 02:26 PM

tdawg
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p.1 #8 · This won`t happen to Nikon..........

I'll gladly take a D2X over a 5D. Go play with a D2X at your local shop, fire off some frames, and you'll understand why you would pay the "premium" between the two bodies.

Edited on Oct 13, 2005 at 11:48 PM

Oct 11, 2005 at 02:27 PM

Stripper
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p.1 #9 · This won`t happen to Nikon..........

HankB wrote:
Well. there is a huge difference between the D2X and the Canon 5D, the Canon 5D is a $3200.00 non pro body, I dont know about most folks out there but it is hard for me to get excited about spending $3000.00 on a non pro, non weather sealed, non vertical grip, 3 fps camera. Its not even in any kind of catogory as the D2X. In fact it is not even as well built as the D1X. The 5D looks like an overpriced 20d with slower frames per second.

I am a Nikon shooter with D2 bodies so don't flame me for what I am about to say.

Go play with a 5D body down at your local photo store and tell me it is not a pro body. It has a great feel, a big bright viewfinder and fast AF. Personally, I would not buy one because I do not want an oversized sensor, but go pick one up and tell me you don't like it. I think it feels better in my hand than the smaller or the bigger Canon bodies. Put a grip on it and it would feel even better.

Edited on Oct 13, 2005 at 11:48 PM

Oct 11, 2005 at 03:16 PM

uccmmcpo
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p.1 #10 · This won`t happen to Nikon..........

praveenk25 wrote:
uccmmcpo wrote:
The D2H series are a joke mainly in the sense of 4 MP resolution

I've used (and still using

) D2H to get poster size prints from it's 4MP files. Resolution was never a problem..you won't believe it but I've got bunch of good landscape and wildlife shots too out of it. There are many other forum members who have similar satisfying results from the H.

Hi Praveenk,
Surely I do believe your D2H is a great niche camera and obviously capable of producing very good images . I probably should apologize for using the word "joke" however my point was only to illustrate that 4 MP`s simply isn`t gonna cut it (sales wise )nowadays regardless of how good the IQ is .
Landscapes have to benefit from even more resolution and detail?
Simply put, the competition offers more for substantially less money so why settle for 4 MP`s ?
Anyone think that Nikon might be sandbagging just to get all the bucks they can out of the D2H and the D2X ? And can this be good in the long run?
Obviously the WB encryption didn`t do them any good either.
Even Thom Hogan thinks it stinks.
John

Edited on Oct 13, 2005 at 11:48 PM

Oct 11, 2005 at 03:36 PM

hir0
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p.1 #11 · This won`t happen to Nikon..........

uccmmcpo wrote: Nikon may well be forcing some converts to Canon with this gaping hole in their lineup
great news! i'll keep a closer eye on the buy and sell board.

Edited on Oct 13, 2005 at 11:48 PM

Oct 11, 2005 at 03:43 PM

HankB
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p.1 #12 · This won`t happen to Nikon..........

Stripper wrote:

I am a Nikon shooter with D2 bodies so don't flame me for what I am about to say.

Go play with a 5D body down at your local photo store and tell me it is not a pro body. It has a great feel, a big bright viewfinder and fast AF. Personally, I would not buy one because I do not want an oversized sensor, but go pick one up and tell me you don't like it. I think it feels better in my hand than the smaller or the bigger Canon bodies. Put a grip on it and it would feel even better.

Stripper, I agree with you. What I meant by non pro body, is no weather seals, no built in vertical grip and only 3 fps. I am sure the camera feels nice. I just find it hard to accept that a $3000.00 camera body is non- pro build and 3fps. Also, among the canon crowd, it looks like the mark II folks are deciding to keep ther mark II's instead of the 5D.

Edited on Oct 13, 2005 at 11:48 PM

Oct 11, 2005 at 03:43 PM

Fstr.
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p.1 #13 · This won`t happen to Nikon..........

Nikon and Canon are on two different tracks as far as release time on new models. For those who are wringing their hands because the D200 or whatever they may call it is slow in surfacing, I understand your frustration as I pulled my hair out waiting on the D2X. Matter of fact mine came in a week AFTER I got back from a shoot in the southwest. That being said, I love this camera and if you can wait, you will probably love the next D- whatever when it shows up. It would be nice if they would hurry it up a bit though.

Edited on Oct 13, 2005 at 11:48 PM

Oct 11, 2005 at 03:50 PM

andylaiphoto
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p.1 #14 · This won`t happen to Nikon..........

HankB wrote:
One other note, Nikon bodies have always held there value much more than Canon, starting with the Nikon F and all the way up. Look at how old and how much D1X's are still bringing. BH still has D1X for $2000.00. Look at Rebel's vs. D100 values. D100 are selling for almost twice what rebels sell for.

Yeah, and how many D100 do you think are flying of the shelves?

Edited on Oct 13, 2005 at 11:48 PM

Oct 11, 2005 at 04:52 PM

Osai
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p.1 #15 · This won`t happen to Nikon..........

uccmmcpo wrote:
............at least not till the D200 surfaces .http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/292973
It appears Canon 5D sales is slowing sales of their top end dslr s (series 1 models) forcing prices to fall significantly. This also happened when the 20D appeared.
I`d have to assume that those who sell off their high end model and drop to the next level overbought in the first place only to get to the next level, however it`s very often the only way to upgrade at the time and that`s exactly what we Nikon users are faced with presently. The choices are simple but limited. It`s the D50/70s or all the way up to the D2X. Forget the DH2 with 4 MP`s @ $3500. It`s almost a joke.(Well maybe not for working PJ`s)
Nikon may well be forcing some converts to Canon with this gaping hole in their lineup but this 35mm sensored 5D priced at $3,295 simply has to be cutting into D2X sales.
I`m sure lots of folks seriously consider the $1700 difference in a D2X and a D5.
Cordial comments/replies are welcome.
John

#1. Why are you assuming that Canon users are selling their high end models and buying the 5D?
#2. DH2 a Joke ? 4 MPs a Joke ? It takes more than MPs to make a good sensor.
#3. Do you really think all it takes to make a good picture is money?? "...............it`s utterly amazing what a mere $5 grand and a good zoom can do."
#4. Why are you so worried about what others buy? "5D priced at $3,295 simply has to be cutting into D2X sales." Do you really think that the 5D compares to a D2X?
#5. Your D70 is a fine camera, I'd take mine over a 5D at any price.
#6. "Nikon may well be forcing some converts to Canon" Converts? Sounds a bit evangelistic. When did what brand of camera you own become like a religion?
#7. I've noticed that a good photographer will take a good image no matter what camera they use.
#8. Do you ever post images?

Edited on Oct 13, 2005 at 11:48 PM

Oct 11, 2005 at 04:55 PM

Nicodad
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p.1 #16 · This won`t happen to Nikon..........

The 20D ERR´rd 99nd me to Nikon. The 5D is a 20D with a slightly bigger body, 50% more resolution for 250% the price. I had to pleasure to experience how it feels when in the middle of a shooting at a client two cameras go down. Never more. Ever saw a 7-BMW in winter? What´s worth the big muscles if you can´t get out of your seat. You pay more on a 5D for the bigger sensor, the vignetting at the corners, the brighter viewfinder. Not for quality. The only thing I will ever pay for is quality, not pixel number crunching.

Edited on Oct 13, 2005 at 11:48 PM

Oct 11, 2005 at 05:02 PM

matttvi
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p.1 #17 · This won`t happen to Nikon..........

In marketing terms, it's called cannibalizing.

Edited on Oct 13, 2005 at 11:48 PM

Oct 11, 2005 at 05:05 PM

Shivatron
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p.1 #18 · This won`t happen to Nikon..........

HankB wrote:
I just find it hard to accept that a $3000.00 camera body is non- pro build and 3fps.

I can understand that, but let me present the other side of the argument (and this is with no disrespect to the D2x, which I'm told is an excellent camera): I find it hard to accept that a $5000 camera (the D2X) is 1.5X crop and "only" 5FPS. (I won't talk about HSC mode, since 6.8MP isn't in line with the comparison.)

So you see, it's a matter of priorities. Which would you rather have, full frame and and extra $1700 in your pocket or 2 extra FPS, weather seals, and a built-in grip? There seem to be a lot of people who rather the former.

Besides, if you want the full-frame, for the big viewfinder or the wide-lenses or the narrower DoF or whatever, and you don't want to pay $7000 for the 1Ds2, then really there's only one game in town.

Also, among the canon crowd, it looks like the mark II folks are deciding to keep ther mark II's instead of the 5D.

If you're talking about the 1D Mark II, then I would agree. But that's because they're different cameras. I own a 1D my next camera will be a Mark II, not a 5D. I need the weather sealing and AF, I could live without the extra 4MP. Besides, 1.3x crop means my wides (17mm) are actually pretty good.

Edited by Shivatron on Oct 11, 2005 at 12:34 PM GMT

Edited on Oct 13, 2005 at 11:48 PM

Oct 11, 2005 at 05:32 PM

HankB
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p.1 #19 · This won`t happen to Nikon..........

Yeah, and how many D100 do you think are flying of the shelves?

I agree the new ones D100's are not flying off the shelve. What I was reffering to was the price of used nikon camera bodies seem to hold there value better than used canon bodies.

Edited on Oct 13, 2005 at 11:48 PM

Oct 11, 2005 at 05:34 PM

HankB
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p.1 #20 · This won`t happen to Nikon..........

I don't mean to be inflammitory. Having said that, I don't think you have to own Canon gear, as I do, to recognize that the 5D is in some ways a better camera than even the D2X, for a lot less money.

I am sure not taking it as inflammitory. Debate is good. I guess you must know something about the Canon 5D that I do not. I in know way see it as a better camera than the D2X, in fact as you state in some ways its better, I just dont see it. Can you explain?. The only advantage if you consider it an advantage is "Full Frame" I guess a 645 is aps sensor compared to 6x7 and 6x7 is aps size compared to 4x5 and so on.

I guess its all in the way you look at it. I see the 5D as a slower shooting glorifried 20D, for way to much money for what it is. I am sure if your convinced full frame is better, than it probaly looks good.

Edited on Oct 13, 2005 at 11:48 PM

Oct 11, 2005 at 05:42 PM

Shivatron
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p.1 #21 · This won`t happen to Nikon..........

HankB wrote:
I don't mean to be inflammitory. Having said that, I don't think you have to own Canon gear, as I do, to recognize that the 5D is in some ways a better camera than even the D2X, for a lot less money.

I am sure not taking it as inflammitory. Debate is good. I guess you must know something about the Canon 5D that I do not. I in know way see it as a better camera than the D2X, in fact as you state in some ways its better, I just dont see it. Can you explain?. The only advantage if you consider it an advantage is "Full Frame" I guess a 645 is aps sensor compared to 6x7 and 6x7 is aps size compared to 4x5 and so on.

I guess its all in the way you look at it. I see the 5D as a slower shooting glorifried 20D, for way to much money for what it is. I am sure if your convinced full frame is better, than it probaly looks good.

I agree, it truly is all in the way that you look at it. I think that the 5D is better than the D2X in some ways, since I can see the potential advantages of the narrower DoF of a larger sensor, the ability to use the full image circle of the lens, and the larger pixel sizes making for lower-noise at high ISO.

With the exception of lower noise (since everyone wants that), I can see how some people would consider the crop factor an advantage since it gives you longer lenses and more DoF. That's why I said better in some ways -- I agree with you that full-frame isn't a panacea for everyone.

Edited on Oct 13, 2005 at 11:48 PM

Oct 11, 2005 at 06:17 PM

uccmmcpo
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p.1 #22 · This won`t happen to Nikon..........

Osai wrote:
uccmmcpo wrote:
............at least not till the D200 surfaces .http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/292973
It appears Canon 5D sales is slowing sales of their top end dslr s (series 1 models) forcing prices to fall significantly. This also happened when the 20D appeared.
I`d have to assume that those who sell off their high end model and drop to the next level overbought in the first place only to get to the next level, however it`s very often the only way to upgrade at the time and that`s exactly what we Nikon users are faced with presently. The choices are simple but limited. It`s the D50/70s or all the way up to the D2X. Forget the DH2 with 4 MP`s @ $3500. It`s almost a joke.(Well maybe not for working PJ`s)
Nikon may well be forcing some converts to Canon with this gaping hole in their lineup but this 35mm sensored 5D priced at $3,295 simply has to be cutting into D2X sales.
I`m sure lots of folks seriously consider the $1700 difference in a D2X and a D5.
Cordial comments/replies are welcome.
John

#1. Why are you assuming that Canon users are selling their high end models and buying the 5D?
#2. DH2 a Joke ? 4 MPs a Joke ? It takes more than MPs to make a good sensor.
#3. Do you really think all it takes to make a good picture is money?? "...............it`s utterly amazing what a mere $5 grand and a good zoom can do."
#4. Why are you so worried about what others buy? "5D priced at $3,295 simply has to be cutting into D2X sales." Do you really think that the 5D compares to a D2X?
#5. Your D70 is a fine camera, I'd take mine over a 5D at any price.
#6. "Nikon may well be forcing some converts to Canon" Converts? Sounds a bit evangelistic. When did what brand of camera you own become like a religion?
#7. I've noticed that a good photographer will take a good image no matter what camera they use.
#8. Do you ever post images?

I should probably ignore your questions , some of what I feel are silly but I`ll give it a try anyway.
here goes:

1....Actually it was the 20D that did in fact cause many 1D MK ll owners to sell off and buy a 20D then pocket the difference cause they didn`t need all that the 1D offered.
2....4 MP`s isn`t up to present standards period! Most sensors are good but more MP`s in a dslr usually means more resolution and detail doesn`t it? Ever wonder why they put more in the D2X?
3...A bit more money does seem to buy more resolution and detail from Canon at least.They do offer it as an option last I knew.
Now, my original quote of how "it`s utterly amazing what a mere 5 grand and a good zoom will do" was taken by you from another post where I was being a bit facetious but there it was received as intended.
4...Who`s worried? Just don`t sit there thinking everyone looking for a 10+ MP dslr is ignoring the $1,700 price differential and that they need the pro features that the D2X has.
5...This one makes you suspect. I do like my D70 but I`ll still swap it for a 5D any day of the week.
6....Converts = evangelistic? Lets keep religion out of it.
7... Yeah , a good photographer can take good pictures no matter what kind of camera they use .Tell me, do you use a Holga?
8....Do I ever post images? Is this supposed to be a prerequisite?
John

Edited on Oct 13, 2005 at 11:48 PM

Oct 11, 2005 at 06:55 PM

Qwntm
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p.1 #23 · This won`t happen to Nikon..........

[uccmmcpo wrote:

#3...A bit more money does seem to buy more resolution and detail from Canon at least.They do offer it as an option last I knew.
Now, my original quote of how "it`s utterly amazing what a mere 5 grand and a good zoom will do" was taken by you from another post where I was being a bit facetious but there it was received as intended.
# 5...This one makes you suspect. I do like my D70 but I`ll still swap it for a 5D any day of the week.
John

#3 Seems to be a product of Canon's marketing machine which I am tired of dealing with. Only in Canon land do you have to pay over $1000 to a get a decent lens. Only in Canon land can you consider spending over $3300 for a consumer camera.

#5 The 5D was the last straw for me. It really opened my eyes. I was considering buying this camera and was so skeptical about it, I finally realized that what I really wasn't getting is the bang for my bucks from my $8,000 worth of Canon lenses. As this could only GET WORSE on a FF camera, I bought a D70s instead.

GUESS WHAT? Sharp photos are here again. Now I remember what I was missing... Funny how a D70s with a kit lens can out perform the 16-35L, and 24-70L. (I can't wait for my 24mm, 35mm,60mm and 85mm to show up. It's like going home... I shot Nikon film gear extensively in the 80's and 90's.)

I am so over the Canon Marketing BS...

But that's just me, you all have fun spending as much as you can afford...

Edward
www.edwardtmartins.com
www.pbase.com/qwntm

Eagerly awaiting Nikon's next AFFORDABLE pro camera: the D200.

Edited on Oct 13, 2005 at 11:48 PM

Oct 11, 2005 at 07:48 PM

HankB
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p.1 #24 · This won`t happen to Nikon..........

Shivatron, its always a pleasure to share ideas, and listen to other points of veiw as you have so appropriatly put them. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

Edited on Oct 13, 2005 at 11:48 PM

Oct 11, 2005 at 08:42 PM

Gregg Heckler
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p.1 #25 · This won`t happen to Nikon..........

Hank B said it perfectly. It's all about features and benefits, or it should be. Canon is banking the whole farm on a full sized sensor while leaving the mostly used features out (5fps, verticl grip, solid feel, easier menus, comfort, etc). For 3 grand anyway. To get those you have to pay 7 grand. My D100 still continues to make awesome images and it still has a better feel, is more solid, easier menus, and is still worth over 1/2 of what I paid for it. At Canon's marketing rate the D5 will be old news in 9 months, and this discussion wioll start all over again.

Edited on Oct 13, 2005 at 11:48 PM

Oct 11, 2005 at 10:45 PM


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