The sky is falling..

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Pavel
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p.2 #1 · The sky is falling..

It looks like canon users have choices. FF for prices that Nikon advocates said to themselves (nervously) would not happen for ten years, 1.6 crop that outperforms any other in the total package and has a crop like the nikons and a middle ground with performance that has not been bested since it came out in 2002 in the 1D and a middle ground 1.25 crop.

Of course Nikon users have choices too. They can take what Nikon gives them, what Nikon has decided is good for everyone and what Nikon manages to produce - when they finally get around to it. Do some of you really have to try to comfort yourselves with how much better the wides are. Nikon urban legend or last gasp hope? Not sure, relax and go take pictures - don't go for all this Canon put down. It just sounds desperate.

These are good Canon times. Admit it and don't bother with the slams. Go enjoy what you have. It's ok to admit that the canon users are on top of the world - because it doens't make your equipment any different or worse than it was yesterday.

If your happy with your choices - and I suspect you are. Think about it ... so are they - and it's a good day for them. Yours should be here in a while.

Edited on Aug 24, 2005 at 09:23 AM

Aug 22, 2005 at 03:59 PM

Mark Jamison
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p.2 #2 · The sky is falling..

lxdesign wrote:
I looked at the dpreview photo of the new camera - is it just me, or does anyone else think it looks like a cheap plastic hunk of camera?

It's a 20D with a Full Frame Sensor. So that looks like it won't really be cheap plastic. It does look like it though

Edited on Aug 24, 2005 at 09:23 AM

Aug 22, 2005 at 04:13 PM

Octavio Salles
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p.2 #3 · The sky is falling..

Pavel wrote:
Not sure, relax and go take pictures - don't go for all this Canon put down. It just sounds desperate.

May I ask then what are you doing in a NIKON forum ?

It just sounds contraditory, a bit funny really.

Why are you worried?

Pavel wrote:
It's ok to admit that the canon users are on top of the world

If you say so......................

Edited on Aug 24, 2005 at 09:23 AM

Aug 22, 2005 at 04:21 PM

Pavel
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p.2 #4 · The sky is falling..

And if it is cheap plastic ... that's ok because you pays your money and takes your compromises. That would be just fine for that price. If you want the moon and stars in "feel" ... pay more

( a lot more

)

Edited on Aug 24, 2005 at 09:23 AM

Aug 22, 2005 at 04:21 PM

molson
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p.2 #5 · The sky is falling..

Pavel wrote:
It looks like canon users have choices. FF for prices that Nikon advocates said to themselves (nervously) would not happen for ten years, 1.6 crop that outperforms any other in the total package and has a crop like the nikons and a middle ground with performance that has not been bested since it came out in 2002 in the 1D and a middle ground 1.25 crop.

Of course Nikon users have choices too. They can take what Nikon gives them, what Nikon has decided is good for everyone and what Nikon manages to produce - when they finally get around to it.
I guess it's all a matter of perspective...

Nikon has a 1.5 crop camera that outperforms Canon's full-frame cameras, vastly outperforms Canon's 1.3 crop cameras, and simply embarrasses Canon's 1.6 crop cameras. How much more choice do we need?

Do some of you really have to try to comfort yourselves with how much better the wides are. Nikon urban legend or last gasp hope? Not sure, relax and go take pictures - don't go for all this Canon put down. It just sounds desperate.

You would have to be seriously visually impaired to not appreciate the Nikon (and Leica, and Zeiss, and Olympus, and probably Pentax, and Minolta, and Tamron, and Sigma, and Tokina, and Spooginar, and RectalPro...) advantages over Canon here.

Edited on Aug 24, 2005 at 09:23 AM

Aug 22, 2005 at 04:34 PM

David R
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p.2 #6 · The sky is falling..

Of course Nikon users have choices too. They can take what Nikon gives them, what Nikon has decided is good for everyone and what Nikon manages to produce

For Pete's sake, give it rest, will you? You're clearly not going to be happy until every Nikon shooter on this forum admits that Canon is superior, that Nikon is just barely hanging on, and that our crappy cameras are clearly inferior. No idea why you need to denegrate others to feel good about yourself or your camera, and I really don't care, but I wish you'd take your Nikon bashing back to the Canon forum.

Speaking only for myself: I'll buy the best camera that I can afford. If it has a 35mm sensor, so be it. If it's smaller, that's fine too. Sensor size is just not an important factor in me choosing a camera.

Nikon shooters had 35mm sensors available to them before Canon users did. Totally irrelevent to me, but I thought you might want to use some actual facts in your argument.

Edited by David R on Aug 23, 2005 at 09:19 AM GMT

Edited on Aug 24, 2005 at 09:23 AM

Aug 22, 2005 at 05:00 PM

Mark Jamison
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p.2 #7 · The sky is falling..

David R wrote:

Nikon shooters had 35mm sensors available to them before Canon users did. Totally irrelevent to me, but I thought you might want to use some actual facts in your argument.

Pavel has never cared about facts. At least not in the Nikon Forum. He's just trolling along.

Edited on Aug 24, 2005 at 09:23 AM

Aug 22, 2005 at 05:04 PM

David R
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p.2 #8 · The sky is falling..

Pavel has never cared about facts. At least not in the Nikon Forum. He's just trolling along.

You're right, and I'm sorry I even replied. I'll walk away and hope for a quick death to this flame fest.

Edited on Aug 24, 2005 at 09:23 AM

Aug 22, 2005 at 05:17 PM

Qranc
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p.2 #9 · The sky is falling..

lxdesign wrote:
I looked at the dpreview photo of the new camera - is it just me, or does anyone else think it looks like a cheap plastic hunk of camera?

I was kinda wondering when this idea would crop up. Now I won't say the 20D is a cheap hunk but when I was in the market and considered a switch the 20D just didn't have enough to make me turn. I essentially view the this new camera as a 20D with a larger sensor at a far greater price.

Here is the kicker. I won't argue the merits of a larger sensor however, those potentials haven't been realized in that, thus far, any comparison of the 1Ds mk II and the D2X don't show a significant advantage for me.

Take a step further and apply that to the 5D I will say there is no significant advantage for me to up a great deal of money when for a little more I can have a D2X. No real loss, no foul.

You say you need 24x36mm? hey there it is. For me its not a significant (if any) advantage at this point and to me, it seems Canon is committed to advance the marketing of 24x36mm realizing opinion, right or wrong, wins. If they in fact advanced the technology I might be saying something different.

There are potential benefits to 24x36mm but in todays offerings those benefits haven't been realized. The suppposed benefits it does offer today, isn't significant enough for me to consider the fair outlay involved.

Anything more than that, once again becomes a "mine is bigger than yours" and if thats all it is well .... post ur address and I will send you a cookie. I'll even sing "for he is a jolly good fellow" and be willing to crown you the winner.

Edited on Aug 24, 2005 at 09:23 AM

Aug 22, 2005 at 06:08 PM

Osai
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p.2 #10 · The sky is falling..

The fact that this thread has gone on as long as it has......Nay, the fact that it even exists tells me most of you really don't understand what your own equipment is about.........let alone photography.
Sorry if this sounds harsh, but truth be told.............

Edited on Aug 24, 2005 at 09:23 AM

Aug 22, 2005 at 08:42 PM

butch350
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p.2 #11 · The sky is falling..

I must admit, that when I read here about the upcoming 12mp Canon, I entertained
the thought of adding a Canon to my Nikon stuff - that is until I saw a picture
of it, the new Canon, on Dp Review, and boy is it a horrid cheap O looking body.
I'm sticking with the Nikon group. Nikon may be slow in updating their camera line - but usually the wait is well worth it.

Edited on Aug 24, 2005 at 09:23 AM

Aug 23, 2005 at 12:34 PM

clew
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p.2 #12 · The sky is falling..

i would be curious to see what the viewfinder looks like. it doesn't have a popup flash, but the VF mag is 0.71x with 95% coverage. That doesn't sound all that appealing. People may buy this thing in droves, but it does absolutely nothing for me. I've said it before and I'll say it again. They're going to have to dramatically increase dynamic range and improve the viewfinder before I buy another digital camera.

Chris

Edited on Aug 24, 2005 at 09:23 AM

Aug 23, 2005 at 01:41 PM

Fundy
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p.2 #13 · The sky is falling..

Come on guys don't go down in the gutter just because someone else did, both Canon and Nikon make incredible cameras that let us do things we would only have dreamed of 5 years ago.

Canon has put most of its effort into larger sensors and their sensor technology.

Nikon has put a lot more effort in very well made DX lenses to give great results on all of their 1.5x crop cameras from the D50 to the D2X (and hopefully the D200, when they get around to it).

Different business models, both great cameras, Canon is winning the 'churn out better cameras every year war' but hey, lets go shoot.

Canon, good job on a great new camera, the 5D. I hope everyone that buys it gets wonderful results and is 100% happy.

Now let's go shoot.

Andrew

Edited on Aug 24, 2005 at 09:23 AM

Aug 23, 2005 at 01:50 PM

mauii
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p.2 #14 · The sky is falling..

Yeah, it looks like cheap plastic. i definately wouldnt touch it.

This image is copyrighted by the owner

Oh, btw, thats what the thing looks like underneath the "cheap" polycarbonate protective layer and paint. A solid frame of magnesium alloy.

Edited on Aug 24, 2005 at 09:23 AM

Aug 23, 2005 at 01:51 PM

uccmmcpo
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p.2 #15 · The sky is falling..

Hmm, no on board flash. I wonder how this is gonna sit with those who find the pop up flash useful.
Normally a pro body wouldn`t sport a pop up flash but the 5D is not in that class.(well maybe it could be at that)
Regardless, this will mean that an external flash would have to be taken along on most outings. Maybe not a bigee for some but for others it will be something to consider.
John

Edited on Aug 24, 2005 at 09:23 AM

Aug 23, 2005 at 01:53 PM

mauii
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p.2 #16 · The sky is falling..

I think the point is that it IS aimed at professionals. The fact that amatures with lots of cash chose to buy such things doesn't change that. Typically, for Joe "weekend warrior", a 3000 dollar camera is not something you pick up for the wife and kids on the way home from the office.

Edited on Aug 24, 2005 at 09:23 AM

Aug 23, 2005 at 01:55 PM

Ryder
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p.2 #17 · The sky is falling..

mauii wrote:
Yeah, it looks like cheap plastic. i definately wouldnt touch it.

This image is copyrighted by the owner

Oh, btw, thats what the thing looks like underneath the "cheap" polycarbonate protective layer and paint. A solid frame of magnesium alloy.

Hi:

Don't you actually want to touch it in order to actually find out?

Cheers,
Craig Ryder

Edited on Aug 24, 2005 at 09:23 AM

Aug 23, 2005 at 02:01 PM

mauii
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p.2 #18 · The sky is falling..

Of course. Some people are speculating from PHOTOS that the camera is cheap and plasticy. I just wanted to offer the other side of the arguement on that. The thing looks rigid and durable as hell from what i can tell in that picture. (and, the magnesium alloy frame is a known quality of the camera. no speculation there.)

Edited on Aug 24, 2005 at 09:23 AM

Aug 23, 2005 at 02:08 PM

Ryder
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p.2 #19 · The sky is falling..

Hi:
Sorry.
I didn't even get to the bottom half of your comment. Your tongue wasn't in your cheek so much as pushing al the way through it.

I'm a little slow this morning.

In my defense that is the kind of comment (calling something cheap without even handling it) that is often made. Maybe Canon's big sin is that they haven't used the all black pro body. Any other style doesn't say "pro" sufficiently clearly to some folks.

Cheers,
Craig Ryder

Edited on Aug 24, 2005 at 09:23 AM

Aug 23, 2005 at 02:12 PM

Marli
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p.2 #20 · The sky is falling..

I will stick to 1.5 crop.. I don’t want full frame..

I always smile when my fellow Canon shooters ogle my straight out of camera images, and wish they could get the colour, punch and exposure I get..

Some even comment about the low noise.

The difference is they shoot for money, and an image is an image no matter what camera used.

I will be sticking with Nikon for now, and 1.5 crop.. The corner shading puts me off, they have to fix that up.

Edited on Aug 24, 2005 at 09:23 AM

Aug 23, 2005 at 02:20 PM

lxdesign
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p.2 #21 · The sky is falling..

I wasn't saying that the camera is indeed cheap - I'm just saying that they could have picked a better photo to put out on the net. The image on dpreview looks horrid.

I'm sorry - image sells a product for me! And I really like the look of my D2h, which is part of what sold me on it.

Edited on Aug 24, 2005 at 09:23 AM

Aug 23, 2005 at 03:37 PM

Kyle Yates
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p.2 #22 · The sky is falling..

Surprised this thread is still running -- however on board flash --especially if you use large lenses is generally an abomination -- assuming that the Lens doesn't get in the way of the flash (even with Nikon who generally have a far better Flash system -- can't say a lot about the new Canon E-TTL with 580 EX as never tried it but the older flash system was a real dog ).

On board flash is best left for P&S type cameras.

As far as "Plasticy" goes -- I'd much rather carry around a lighter body with the strength of Kevlar than the most beautiful looking Solid Steel safe which weighs a ton and in the end isn't even as strong as the "Plasticy Kevlar"

A lot of new gear is made in ceramic --thank goodness --it's much lighter --and I bet a lot of you Tripod Carrying guys are glad of sturdy relatively light weight Carbon Fibre models.

Cheers

-K

Edited on Aug 24, 2005 at 09:23 AM

Aug 23, 2005 at 05:23 PM

uccmmcpo
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p.2 #23 · The sky is falling..

mauii wrote:
I think the point is that it IS aimed at professionals. The fact that amatures with lots of cash chose to buy such things doesn't change that. Typically, for Joe "weekend warrior", a 3000 dollar camera is not something you pick up for the wife and kids on the way home from the office.

Well, If this thing was geared specifically to pros it would draw down sales of the 1DMKII and 1Ds yet still be a tad slow for sports at 3 fps so Canon must be banking on sales to amateurs too, which brings me back to my original thoughts about the pop up flash being absent.
Personally as an amateur I like the pop up flash for fill lighting and when not wanting to carry excess baggage.
A nice little compact / pocketable flash would be neat to have for this camera.
John.

Edited on Aug 24, 2005 at 09:23 AM

Aug 23, 2005 at 06:56 PM

mauii
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p.2 #24 · The sky is falling..

uccmmcpo wrote:

Well, If this thing was geared specifically to pros it would draw down sales of the 1DMKII and 1Ds yet still be a tad slow for sports at 3 fps so Canon must be banking on sales to amateurs too, which brings me back to my original thoughts about the pop up flash being absent.
Personally as an amateur I like the pop up flash for fill lighting and when not wanting to carry excess baggage.
A nice little compact / pocketable flash would be neat to have for this camera.
John.

What is this "draw down sales" talk? The 1D2 is made by Canon. The 5D is made by canon. The "stolen" sales from canon are captured by.. you guessed it.. canon. It would be like robbing your own bank acount. Please elaborate here. If anything, it just adds another window in the canon lineup for people to enter the canon system, or upgrade, or to add another camera to thier arsenal. Canon doesnt care if you buy a 5D instead of a 1D2, either way, they just made a thousand bucks.

If you rely on pop up flash, i think this camera might be a bit much for you.

Edited on Aug 24, 2005 at 09:23 AM

Aug 23, 2005 at 09:10 PM

Kyle Yates
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p.2 #25 · The sky is falling..

uccmmcpo wrote:
Well, If this thing was geared specifically to pros it would draw down sales of the 1DMKII and 1Ds yet still be a tad slow for sports at 3 fps so Canon must be banking on sales to amateurs too,...

OK this is a Nikon Board -- but as a pro I can certainly say that the Canon 5D certainly is NOT a 1D2 replacement and is unlikely to make any impact on those sales.

A lot of Canon Pros will be getting this camera

1) as a backup for the 1Ds2 -- 2X 1Ds2 is a LOT of Bread --- certainly more than the average shooter can realistically afford.

2) Canon Wedding shooters will like this a lot --the 12MP will be an added Bonus for a lot of wedding shooters who currently are toying around with the 1D2 (8MP) but need slightly larger resolution.

3) Shooters who couldn't afford a 1Ds2 and who want FF.

4) People who want or need a 1Ds2 --particularly Pros who can earn enough to pay for the camera after a few shoots will continue to purchase and use the 1Ds2.

OK this is largely irrelevant to Nikon shooters I know but there are a lot of high end amateurs as well who will buy gear that makes even hardend pros look jealously on --where on earth do they find the money.

I'm sure the same is true in the Nikon environment -- I'll bet there are a whole slew of amateurs out there who have the D2X even though the target market is really the Pro segment.

Cheers
-K

Edited on Aug 24, 2005 at 09:23 AM

Aug 23, 2005 at 09:15 PM


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