The sky is falling..

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SnaggS
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p.1 #1 · The sky is falling..

Now there is a home for all those Nikon people who want their 35mm lenses to remain 35mm and still meter.. Its called a Canon 5D... now OFFICIAL.

Shame on you Nikon for cocking up so badly.

Daniel.

Canon EOS 5D, full-frame 12.8 megapixel
The biggest surprise of the day (not) will be Canon's much-leaked EOS 5D. Yes, the specifications floating around for the last two weeks were accurate, this camera slots in above the EOS 20D but below the EOS-1D series with its full-frame (35 mm negative size) 12.8 megapixel CMOS sensor. Other key specifications; 3.0 fps continuous shooting, Spot metering, Custom settings mode, Picture Style parameters, 2.5" wide viewing angle LCD monitor, marginally larger than the EOS 20D, USB 2.0 High-speed, compatible with WFT-E1 wireless transmitter. The EOS 5D is certainly unique and will no doubt be of great interest to a great variety of photographers. The EOS 5D will be priced at $3299 (US) / €3459 (EU). We have a detailed preview of the EOS 5D now available. (10:00 GMT)

For preview go here

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0508/05082209canoneos5d.asp

Edited on Aug 24, 2005 at 09:23 AM

Aug 22, 2005 at 12:05 PM

Kyle Yates
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p.1 #2 · The sky is falling..

I think the argument over FF and non FF has been raging for ages now.

I did get the impression that Nikon for better or worse had decided that for the foreseeable future FF wasn't in their plans and most readers on this Forum seemed to be quite happy with that decision.

I've always made my preference for FF quite plain even though I thought the D2X was (and is) a fantastic camera and if I hadn't been shooting Canon for years would have certainly opted for it --especially when you consider the price of the 1Ds2.

However now Canon has produced an FF camera at what could be considered a sensible entry price (roughly the same as the D2X) I think the ball game has changed again and Nikon really need to look hard at the options.

It may well be that their decision to stay non FF is the right one for the majority of their shooters -- but now that a real FF product has actually appeared and at a competitive price I'm sure there's a lot of twitching in the devlopment labs.

BTW NONE of this post is intended to slate either camera or manufacturer -- it's just to point out that while an affordable FF camera was still in "vaporware" stage then of course the D2X was the best value for money around for a high end camera and of course everybody was trotting out the advantages of the smaller sensor size format.

The 5D now being a real product significantly in my view changes the equation again.

Cheers

-K

Edited on Aug 24, 2005 at 09:23 AM

Aug 22, 2005 at 12:51 PM

molson
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p.1 #3 · The sky is falling..

The idea of a reasonably-priced FF camera is very compelling... except for one problem. Canon doesn't make any wide-angle lenses that are of sufficient optical quality for such a high-resolution sensor...

Edited on Aug 24, 2005 at 09:23 AM

Aug 22, 2005 at 12:54 PM

Kyle Yates
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p.1 #4 · The sky is falling..

molson wrote:
The idea of a reasonably-priced FF camera is very compelling... except for one problem. Canon doesn't make any wide-angle lenses that are of sufficient optical quality for such a high-resolution sensor...

However you can mount some Nikkors on to EOS bodies (although in Manual Mode only) and of course you have the legendary Zeiss 21 MM distagon etc etc.

The other advantage is in architectural shooting (Ok I know a lot is done in Medium Format) you can use a 24 MM TS/E lens and on FF 24 MM is a reasonably wide angle lens.

Cheers

-K

Edited on Aug 24, 2005 at 09:23 AM

Aug 22, 2005 at 01:00 PM

molson
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p.1 #5 · The sky is falling..

Unfortunately, the 24mm f3.5L TS-E suffers from pretty bad chromatic aberration - even when it's not shifted. It's noticeable even on film, and much worse on the FF DSLR images I've shot.

With the apparent commitment to a line of full-frame cameras, I guess Canon is counting on customers to use software to overcome the limitations of their optics.

Edited on Aug 24, 2005 at 09:23 AM

Aug 22, 2005 at 01:20 PM

SnaggS
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p.1 #6 · The sky is falling..

I'm not interested in Canon wides.. I want a digital back for my Nikon lenses.. Canon is the only option. Its not my fault!! Im just a dumb customer who doesn't want my manufacturer telling me what I want or what I need..

Daniel.

Edited on Aug 24, 2005 at 09:23 AM

Aug 22, 2005 at 01:26 PM

Kyle Yates
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p.1 #7 · The sky is falling..

Hi Snaggs -- I'm looking forward to the inevitable tumble of Australian Wickets on Thursday (4th Test)

Lenses etc are another issue -- but I'm sure Nikon will HAVE to introduce a FF camera --sooner rather than later -- whether it's true or not the market will perceive FF as a more advanced technology and the market can be a cruel place.

The best product doesn't alway survive

Typical recent examples.

Betamax vs VHS

OS/2 Vs Microsoft Windows

etc etc.

-K

Edited on Aug 24, 2005 at 09:23 AM

Aug 22, 2005 at 01:32 PM

SnaggS
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p.1 #8 · The sky is falling..

Thats all I care about.. However, Nikon can be stubborn. They could be stubborn to the grave... and you watch the D2x's being chucked in the bin IF they ever released a F7 (digital).

Can anybody say PRONEA?

http://nikonimaging.com/global/products/filmcamera/slr/1995-1999/pronea_s/

Edited on Aug 24, 2005 at 09:23 AM

Aug 22, 2005 at 01:37 PM

uccmmcpo
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p.1 #9 · The sky is falling..

Lets see now. Along with a few marginal advantages there are some substantial dissadvantages to consider.
1..... 3 fps is too slow for sports / action shooters and FF isn`t needed here either .
2.......Seems I`m gonna need the best glass available to get the best from the FF sensor and still have problems with light falloff and soft edges?
3.......I`m definitely losing the long telephoto end that DX allows so I`ll have to add in the cost of a big heavy 300 mm+ tele (big bucks here too)
4........I`m gonna have to carry heavier, bulkier ,larger lenses in my bag.
5.........$3,295.00 might be out of range for most amateurs like myself advanced or not , not to mention the cost of high end glass
6.......Being that I rarely print larger than 8X10 do I really need this camera`s 12 MP resolution?
7.....Could I tell the difference looking at a FF image next to a cropped sensor image in print?
Obviously there`s room in todays market and economy for this camera to sell to those who could possibly benefit from FF but not to the extent where it will hurt Canon`s or Nikon `s cropped sensored offerings. I just don`t see a FF dslr as the DX killer that some people hope for and certainly not at $3,295.00
John

Edited on Aug 24, 2005 at 09:23 AM

Aug 22, 2005 at 01:37 PM

beast
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p.1 #10 · The sky is falling..

JMHO Not a big deal to have a FF sensor. Most of the images that i take using film have to be cropped down to begin with.

One other thing to factor in is the pixel density of the sensor Nikon has the mose dense sensor avaliable with the D2x. This allows the image to have much finer detail, that gets blurred out on a less dense sensor.

Edited on Aug 24, 2005 at 09:23 AM

Aug 22, 2005 at 01:37 PM

SnaggS
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p.1 #11 · The sky is falling..

Learn to shoot properly if your having to crop everything... and as for your dense sensor rubbish..

.. your kidding right? You think the 12.8 megapixel camera is going to be blurry? What about the D2H.. what do you think of that? Do you like low noise performance?

Daniel.

Edited on Aug 24, 2005 at 09:23 AM

Aug 22, 2005 at 01:57 PM

David R
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p.1 #12 · The sky is falling..

Well, there are two ways to look at this. Most seem to think that Canon is offering up a 35mm sensor to Nikon customers.

A different perspective is that Canon is offering their own customers a way to get full use out of Nikon lenses.

btw, if most of us liked the way Canon bodies handled we'd probably be shooting them now. I care a lot more about how the body feels in my hands than I do about the size of the sensor.

Edited by David R on Aug 22, 2005 at 10:03 PM GMT

Edited on Aug 24, 2005 at 09:23 AM

Aug 22, 2005 at 02:00 PM

praveenk25
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p.1 #13 · The sky is falling..

SnaggS wrote:
Now there is a home for all those Nikon people who want their 35mm lenses to remain 35mm and still meter.. Its called a Canon 5D... now OFFICIAL.

Shame on you Nikon for cocking up so badly.

Daniel.

is 1DsMkII really that good than D2X ? Not really, right? is 5D gonna be that good than D200, I don't think so.

but I'm glad that you gonna finally have a camera and afterwards no blaming on it for not getting good results

Edited on Aug 24, 2005 at 09:23 AM

Aug 22, 2005 at 02:02 PM

SnaggS
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p.1 #14 · The sky is falling..

I agree the Canons are still dog ugly.. but I can put a brown paper bag over it and it will still be smaller and lighter than a D2 series camera...

Daniel.

Edited on Aug 24, 2005 at 09:23 AM

Aug 22, 2005 at 02:12 PM

uccmmcpo
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p.1 #15 · The sky is falling..

If Nikon`s hoped for (leaked?) D200 materializes and comes in under $2,000 it would knock the wind out of Canon`s FF amateur FF dslr .
All the D200 needs is a faster fps , 8+ MP`s and thats inevitable.

In this mid ground market segment price alone is almost always the major factor that decides what`s going to sell good and $3,295.00 for the 5D is still too high for the masses especially for what it offers and the compromises it requires for amateurs.
I remember when droves of Canon 1D MKll users sold off their cameras to buy the 20D and pocket the difference.
It will sell but only to a niche and it will definitely pull sales from their upper end offerings.
John

Edited on Aug 24, 2005 at 09:23 AM

Aug 22, 2005 at 02:17 PM

SnaggS
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p.1 #16 · The sky is falling..

Maybe.. theres still no compact low light PJ camera offering from Nikon.. Somebody, come up with

12.8 megapixels @ ISO 3200 @ 28mm @ f/1.4 @ 1/30 second @ handholdable

Thats what I get with a 5D and a 28mm f/1.4 Nikkor..

Daniel.

Edited on Aug 24, 2005 at 09:23 AM

Aug 22, 2005 at 02:26 PM

MPerdomo
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p.1 #17 · The sky is falling..

uccmmcpo wrote:
If Nikon`s hoped for (leaked?) D200 materializes and comes in under $2,000 it would knock the wind out of Canon`s FF amateur FF dslr .
All the D200 needs is a faster fps , 8+ MP`s and thats inevitable.

In this mid ground market segment price alone is almost always the major factor that decides what`s going to sell good and $3,295.00 for the 5D is still too high for the masses especially for what it offers and the compromises it requires for amateurs.
I remember when droves of Canon 1D MKll users sold off their cameras to buy the 20D and pocket the difference.
It will sell but only to a niche and it will definitely pull sales from their upper end offerings.
John

I agree, if Nikon's D200 is as the rumors predict (CAM2000, F100 Grade Body, 5FPS), for around $2000, then the D200 is going to be a home run hit clear out of the park.

Having the fast AF, and good optical performance of the DX wides would be a killer combo for me.

Edited on Aug 24, 2005 at 09:23 AM

Aug 22, 2005 at 02:29 PM

molson
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p.1 #18 · The sky is falling..

SnaggS wrote:

Can anybody say PRONEA?

Uhh... that was Nikon's repsonse to the IXUS, wasn't it? And of course the Nikon was superior in every respect.

Edited on Aug 24, 2005 at 09:23 AM

Aug 22, 2005 at 02:39 PM

Kyle Yates
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p.1 #19 · The sky is falling..

uccmmcpo wrote:
I remember when droves of Canon 1D MKll users sold off their cameras to buy the 20D and pocket the difference.

I can't think of a SINGLE canon user who flogged the 1D2 to buy the 20D. -- Certainly none of my colleagues..

Totally different animal --the 1D2 is a sport and PJ's camera par exellence --and for shooting in "machine gun mode" there isn't another equal around.
It wasn't designed for huge landscapes etc although it makes a good stab at those as well. Maybe a few wedding shooters might have switched --but I can't really see why as the noise performance on the 1D2 is really very good.

I'm not saying there aren't sports and PJ's using Nikon gear but you'd have to be totally Brain Dead if you had a 1D2 and swapped it for a 20D and were any sort of PRO Canon Sports / PJ shooter.

However to get back to the point -- what's good about the Canon 5D announcement is that it continually forces prices downwards.

Whatever you shoot that HAS to be good news --and if enough of the Market is clamouring for features (no matter how illogical those demands might be) then sooner or later they will either be provided or the company refusing to supply the demand will find its customers going elsewhere.

Cheers

-K

Edited by Kyle Yates on Aug 22, 2005 at 02:55 PM GMT

Edited on Aug 24, 2005 at 09:23 AM

Aug 22, 2005 at 02:46 PM

jmcfadden
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p.1 #20 · The sky is falling..

Kyle

you simply never looked into the buy and sell area after the 20D came online then sir

, the 1DMKII was turning over in droves over here at FM

amatures with more money than sense were selling them here every week

J

Edited on Aug 24, 2005 at 09:23 AM

Aug 22, 2005 at 02:52 PM

Kyle Yates
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p.1 #21 · The sky is falling..

Hi John -- I wish I'd seen that --I might have picked up a few "cheap".

Cheers

-K

Edited on Aug 24, 2005 at 09:23 AM

Aug 22, 2005 at 02:57 PM

lxdesign
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p.1 #22 · The sky is falling..

I looked at the dpreview photo of the new camera - is it just me, or does anyone else think it looks like a cheap plastic hunk of camera?

Edited on Aug 24, 2005 at 09:23 AM

Aug 22, 2005 at 03:08 PM

uccmmcpo
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p.1 #23 · The sky is falling..

Kyle Yates wrote:
uccmmcpo wrote:
I remember when droves of Canon 1D MKll users sold off their cameras to buy the 20D and pocket the difference.

I can't think of a SINGLE canon user who flogged the 1D2 to buy the 20D. -- Certainly none of my colleagues..

Your colleagues might all be pros .
The 1DMKII was simply overkill for those amateurs who bought them and that`s why they opted to sell it off for a 20D. The 8MP`s and 5fps was all they needed.
Obviously real Pros who did buy the 1D MKII wouldn`t want the lesser undependable AF of the 20D and for manyother reasons .

Totally different animal --the 1D2 is a sport and PJ's camera par exellence --and for shooting in "machine gun mode" there isn't another equal around.
It wasn't designed for huge landscapes etc although it makes a good stab at those as well. Maybe a few wedding shooters might have switched --but I can't really see why as the noise performance on the 1D2 is really very good.

The noise performance on the 20D is also very good isn`t it?

I'm not saying there aren't sports and PJ's using Nikon gear but you'd have to be totally Brain Dead if you had a 1D2 and swapped it for a 20D and were any sort of PRO Canon Sports / PJ shooter.

Thats from your POV and certainly not from an amateur`s where price is definitely more of a consideration.
You simply have to think outside of your own mind and try to understand who these amateur class cameras are aimed toward.

However to get back to the point -- what's good about the Canon 5D announcement is that it continually forces prices downwards.

I agree with the above wholeheartedly.

Whatever you shoot that HAS to be good news --and if enough of the Market is clamouring for features (no matter how illogical those demands might be) then sooner or later they will either be provided or the company refusing to supply the demand will find its customers going elsewhere.

Are you implying that only Canon is doing this?

Cheers

-K

Edited by Kyle Yates on Aug 22, 2005 at 02:55 PM GMT

John

Edited on Aug 24, 2005 at 09:23 AM

Aug 22, 2005 at 03:38 PM

Octavio Salles
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p.1 #24 · The sky is falling..

APS sized sensors have many advantages over full frame that have already been mentioned in this thread.

For those who like it, go ahead and get a full frame. I will be sticking to APS.

Edited on Aug 24, 2005 at 09:23 AM

Aug 22, 2005 at 03:45 PM

molson
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p.1 #25 · The sky is falling..

SnaggS wrote:
Thats all I care about.. However, Nikon can be stubborn. They could be stubborn to the grave... and you watch the D2x's being chucked in the bin IF they ever released a F7 (digital).

Can anybody say PRONEA?

http://nikonimaging.com/global/products/filmcamera/slr/1995-1999/pronea_s/

Snaggs, since you're so obsessed with the Pronea, here's a great opportunity for you to add another one to your collection:

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/269631

Edited on Aug 24, 2005 at 09:23 AM

Aug 22, 2005 at 03:58 PM


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