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Archive 2018 · Geared Tripod Head Options

  
 
DavidBM
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Geared Tripod Head Options


I’ve been evaluating options for geared tripod heads. I’m looking for one to go on top of my series 4 Gitzo for studio use and field use (where that field is not hours of walking away: other heads and tripods for that)

Here are my preliminary thoughts. If anyone has anything to add it’s be really helpful.

(1) The Arca-Swiss Cube (or Photoclam)
Not on my radar because while fine for pure studio use, I find it a bit slow for the field, especially landscape. And it;s pricey. And heavy. I know there are people out there who hike with it for days, but that’s not me.

(2) Arca-Swiss D4
A contender, though I balk at the price. Not as fast to use as some because you need to unlock both axes to use it as a ball. Also I gather it (and clones) don’t have quite the geometric precision of ones that use axis stacked goniometers.

(3) Sunwayfoto Pro GH
This is a slightly smaller copy of the D4. There were some niggles in various reviews, but Sunwayfoto claims to have fixed them in the 2017 version. The knobs are now all metal, and the gears are smoother and don’t have dead spots.
It won’t handle quite the load of the D4, but the larges load I have in mind is say A7rIII with FD 2.8/300.

(4) Arca-Swiss P0 Hybrid
Not cheap, but I like the general idea better than the others. A ball head (with the nice interface of the regular P0 which is my favorite) with a couple of goniometers on top. Changing one axis won’t change the other. Of course it might be nice to have more geared axes etc. But I’m not sure it’s quite brute enough for my Series 4 and to be completely happy with the 2.8/300 (and very occasional use of larger things). If it was a P1 Hybrid I’d be all over it.

(5) KPS-T5
Brute enough, and has the nice feature of being able to be used as a ball head when you are in a hurry, and then when it’s locked you can use the gears. I’m not sure about this, but I think the mechanism means that changing one axis with gears can make the other go out a bit? Comments? I think again there were niggles with early ones that are now ironed out.


So the only one I’ve ruled out for my use is the Cube, because I want the possibility of a faster workflow in the field, perhaps if there’s changing light etc.

As for the others: anyone got anything to add?





Jan 07, 2018 at 07:32 PM
doogie2304
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Geared Tripod Head Options


I currently have the Arca-Swiss D4 after having previously used the Manfrotto 405 and 410 heads. For my use, mainly architectural photography - the D4 is fantastic. The only downside is it is only geared on two axis, although Arca-Swiss have released a new version with a geared panoramic head that solves this.

If you want to be able to make ball-head type adjustments, I don't think this head is for you, but if you want precise control over all camera movement, I personally find it hard to beat.



Jan 07, 2018 at 07:51 PM
genji
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Geared Tripod Head Options


I was hoping that Arca-Swiss would introduce a GP (geared panning) model of the P0 Hybrid but so far they haven't. I'm making do with a Manfrotto 405 modified with a Hejnar Arca-Swiss conversion plate. I think I may have to settle for the P0 Hybrid.


Jan 07, 2018 at 08:17 PM
peter_n
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Geared Tripod Head Options


DavidBM wrote:
As for the others: anyone got anything to add?


I've been using a GH-Pro for a couple of years, I think my copy is a v.3 or 4 and I've not experienced the issues that many early adopters have. The knobs were stiff when it arrived but they loosened up after a while. It works very well for my use which is mainly indoors with Sony mirrorless and Leica rangefinders. It's heavy: the GH-Pro and RRS lever panning clamp weighs 2.44lbs.



Jan 07, 2018 at 08:45 PM
Chris_88
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Geared Tripod Head Options


David, not sure about your experiences with the p0, but mine held a 4kg combo (D500 plus long lens and TC) just fine over the weeekend (on a side note: it was funny seeing all the bird photographers with their big glass using heavy series 4/5 Gitzo tripods with huge geared Manfrotto or Sachtler heads or gimbals, while I had my little p0 on a 055 Manfrotto tripod).

I'm not all that familiar with the hybrid version, but your Canon lens and the camera should weigh around 3kg, so it probably should be fine.

Edit: Come to think of it, have you looked into Markins, David? They may be another option for you too. They aren't cheap, but their (better) heads are rock solid.



Jan 07, 2018 at 08:49 PM
DavidBM
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Geared Tripod Head Options


Chris_88 wrote:
David, not sure about your experiences with the p0, but mine held a 4kg combo (D500 plus long lens and TC) just fine over the weeekend (on a side note: it was funny seeing all the bird photographers with their big glass using heavy series 4/5 Gitzo tripods with huge geared Manfrotto or Sachtler heads or gimbals, while I had my little p0 on a 055 Manfrotto tripod).

I'm not all that familiar with the hybrid version, but your Canon lens and the camera should weigh around 3kg, so it probably should be fine.

Edit: Come to think of it,
...Show more

It’s geared heads I’m talking here, Chris. I have a Markins Head ( which is great except the panning base doesn’t lock well) and a P0.

Markins don’t make a geared head, do they?



Jan 07, 2018 at 11:50 PM
DavidBM
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Geared Tripod Head Options


genji wrote:
I was hoping that Arca-Swiss would introduce a GP (geared panning) model of the P0 Hybrid but so far they haven't. I'm making do with a Manfrotto 405 modified with a Hejnar Arca-Swiss conversion plate. I think I may have to settle for the P0 Hybrid.


I should have picked your brains about this over lunch!

Yes I’m starting to think P0 Hybrid. But I’d be happier with p1 Hybrid if there were such a thing...



Jan 07, 2018 at 11:52 PM
Chris_88
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Geared Tripod Head Options


DavidBM wrote:
It’s geared heads I’m talking here, Chris. I have a Markins Head ( which is great except the panning base doesn’t lock well) and a P0.

Markins don’t make a geared head, do they?


Sorry, David, no bad. I thought they did, as I remember seeing something that looked like a geared head. I just checked their website again and couldn't find. I probably just misremembered. Sorry for that.



Jan 08, 2018 at 01:06 AM
DavidBM
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Geared Tripod Head Options


No worries. Maybe it was kps which is also Korean?

Chris_88 wrote:
Sorry, David, no bad. I thought they did, as I remember seeing something that looked like a geared head. I just checked their website again and couldn't find. I probably just misremembered. Sorry for that.




Jan 08, 2018 at 01:16 AM
johnahill
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Geared Tripod Head Options


I've had the sunwayfoto gh-pro for a while, sure if money was no object I'd have the arca D4.
I've had a few issues with the gh-pro, some looseness in the gearing - not that anything moves unwillingly but just that the gears are not as tight as I'd like. Also had some wobble in the head front/back that has been fixed by making a plastic washer and putting it between the two moving sections to tighten things up.

Would love be to hear how the later versions of the gh-pro are looking.



Jan 08, 2018 at 03:20 AM
jankap
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Geared Tripod Head Options


I had a gh-pro. I also have arthritis in my hands. The gears were so tight, that I gave up.
I gave it away to somebody. So not into the bin, but somehow still.
It is possible, that it was a bad sample, that buyers had sent back already.

I now have a FLM CB-38FT. Not a gear head, but with a similar function.
The head worked well for the four corners decenter lenstest.
Jan



Jan 08, 2018 at 05:11 AM
jcolwell
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Geared Tripod Head Options


I use three geared heads,

Arca-Swiss C1 Cube
Manfrotto 410
Sunwayfoto GH-Pro

I use the C1 Cube for most stuff outdoors, and the 410 in the studio. The 410 is the only head with geared movement for azimuth, while the C1 is more compact and very precise. The GH-Pro gathers dust, because nobody will buy it from me, when I tell them how it really performs.

Here's some past threads on geared heads.

- Ball Head VS Geared Head which is best, https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1490328/0#14037700
- [preliminary] https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1378589/2#13130019
- [geared heads general] https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1485070/0#13995474
- [410 Hejnar A-S plate] https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1485070/0#13996408
- [RC2 RC4 A-S adapters] https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1485070/1#13999277



Jan 08, 2018 at 07:19 AM
kdphotography
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Geared Tripod Head Options


Here's another option: Cambo recently announced its new PCH Precision Geared Head. See, https://www.cambo.com/en/news/pch-precision-geared-head/

Cambo makes great high quality products. I'd be more interested in this new option if it were lighter than the AS Cube that I use now. It's about 2.5 pounds.

Ken



Jan 08, 2018 at 10:32 AM
danski0224
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Geared Tripod Head Options


I recently got a Manfrotto 410 and it is very easy to make adjustments.


Jan 08, 2018 at 12:16 PM
DavidBM
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Geared Tripod Head Options


jcolwell wrote:
I use three geared heads,

Arca-Swiss C1 Cube
Manfrotto 410
Sunwayfoto GH-Pro

I use the C1 Cube for most stuff outdoors, and the 410 in the studio. The 410 is the only head with geared movement for azimuth, while the C1 is more compact and very precise. The GH-Pro gathers dust, because nobody will buy it from me, when I tell them how it really performs.

Here's some past threads on geared heads.

- Ball Head VS Geared Head which is best, https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1490328/0#14037700
- [preliminary] https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1378589/2#13130019
- [geared heads general] https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1485070/0#13995474
- [410 Hejnar A-S plate] https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1485070/0#13996408
- [RC2 RC4
...Show more

When did you get your GH-Pro?
They are up to the fifth version, late 2017, and the first few seem to have been beta attempts at best. The newest had redesigned gears, completely new metal knobs and fittings and much else. Of course this might be cosmetic FUD, but it’d be good to know because for smaller lighter setups it’d be a good choice if it was now decent...



Jan 08, 2018 at 05:22 PM
jcolwell
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Geared Tripod Head Options


DavidBM wrote:
When did you get your GH-Pro?


March 2015.

DavidBM wrote:
... be a good choice if it was now decent...


Good luck.



Jan 08, 2018 at 05:38 PM
Andre Y
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Geared Tripod Head Options


I think it depends on whether you need the geared controls to be very precise and repeatable, or whether you just need to tweak your framing a bit. For macro, architecture, and other things where you might need precise control, then the Cube is unbeatable. For traditional landscape, something less precise and faster to set up would be fine.

I've had the normal P0, still have the KPS T5, just got a used Cube, and also have the RRS PG-02 gimbal with their leveling base on their TVC-34 tripod. I also have an old Linhof ballhead that I don't use anymore.

For landscapes, I use the RRS gimbal because it's fast to setup, but allows me to independently change the pan and tilt to tweak my composition. I can also do panos with it, but barely ever do panos. It is heavy (heavier than the Cube), and I sometimes have stability concerns when the camera is held in it in landscape orientation, because it's just hanging out there. I've never really tested those concerns, because I mostly shoot in portrait orientation, and I haven't really seen any issues. It's probably my favorite overall tripod head right now despite its size and weight.

I got the KPS before the gimbal because I thought the geared controls would help with tweaking the framing, and they do but with some caveats. Since the ballhead can be oriented any way relative to how the geared controls move it, I always make sure the camera is mounted on the ballhead the same way relative to the geared controls. Basically, I point the camera in the same direction as the up-down control, which keeps the main knob on the left, and the left-right control on the right. It sounds more complicated than it really is. This way, I know the adjustment knobs will move the camera in some sensible way.

The other caveat is that the adjustment gear knobs will run out of adjustment range, so you have to reset them if you adjust them too much in one direction. You can tell it's near the end of its range by looking at a middle piece that sticks out on one end of the adjustment range, and completely recesses on the other end. In practice this hasn't been a big issue, as I'll check them beforehand.

The geared adjustments are nowhere near as precise as the Cube: the camera will shift and there's considerable gear lash where there's slack before the geared adjustments take action. I've been using it recently to do some FocusTune testing to set the AF fine tune adjustment, and there is definitely camera shift when you lock the geared settings down.

The KPS these days lives mostly on the RRS quick column that I swap out with the leveling base for portrait work. I use it mostly for its fast-setup, and almost don't use the geared controls in that setup. It's solid and will hold a lot of weight. The main ball has gotten kind of sticky recently, where even after I completely unlock the main knob, I need to break the ball free before it will move freely. It will remain free-moving until the next time I unlock the main knob. The manual and ballhead itself has a stern warning to never lube it, so I don't know what's going on. The geared adjustments still feel fine.

The company itself seems good and responsive: they put out a version with a stem that has machined bosses that are compatible with RRS clamps' anti-twist features soon after they got feedback about it, and that's the version I got. The rep in the US (Legio Photo) also has fantastic service.

The P0 is a nice little ballhead that can hold far more weight than it actually weighs: the load to weight ratio is very high. It's pretty easy to adjust, and is solid once locked, but isn't very precise in that standard ballhead way. A friend, who isn't exactly a gorilla and is pretty careful with his gear, has already stripped out two P0s tightening them, but he's the only person I know of who's done that. He also uses a Cube regularly and shoots in the field with it, and his endorsement of it is the reason I got the Cube. I considered getting the P0 Hybrid before I saw a Cube here on the B/S forum, because it would be faster to setup than the Cube. FWIW, my friend believes A-S got it backwards on the hybrid, and that the goniometer part (the geared bits) should have been below the ballhead to lower its center of gravity.



Jan 08, 2018 at 05:49 PM
atracksler
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Geared Tripod Head Options


Another vote for the manfrotto 410. I have used several different heads, but the 410 just understands how I want to work. It adjusts fast, and you can do very precise adjustments.


Jan 08, 2018 at 06:40 PM
mjm6
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Geared Tripod Head Options


I think the Manfrotto 410 is a good option for field work. I don't have it anymore, but I used to have it for shooting architectural subjects with a LF camera. It was precise enough to do that work just fine, and small (and cheap) enough to be viable for field work, unlike some other options. I mounted a Kirk QR clamp onto the top and used that as the connection to the camera, rather than the odd plate the 410 uses. I think there are still a few manufacturers that make an adapter plate for that head to go directly to A-S as well.

Manfrotto also makes the 405, but that is new to me. It must have replaced their other larger geared head that was called the 400. That things was big and bulky, and didn't make sense to me for field work. The 405 might be a viable option to consider as well.

I have a P0 that I now use as my primary ball head, and love it. I recall they were going to introduce the hybrid version, but it seems a bit ungainly to me. Maybe it is great, as most of the A-S stuff is excellent overall (except their camera mount plates...).

What I liked about the Manfrotto is that the gearing isn't so tight that a little bit of grit would bring it to its knees. The gearing is also completely enclosed, so it should resist the grit and grim of field work better than anything that has exposed gearing. Also, this head has the ability to release the gearing for large movements and then lock it down to make the final adjustments. To me, that felt like a logical design approach, and while I'd love to have an extremely precise geared head, the usability seemed to be more in favor of the Manfrotto for my needs.



Jan 08, 2018 at 08:03 PM
mjm6
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Geared Tripod Head Options


Andre Y wrote:
FWIW, my friend believes A-S got it backwards on the hybrid, and that the goniometer part (the geared bits) should have been below the ballhead to lower its center of gravity.



Andre, you can't do that without messing up the yaw-free action of the camera, and in particular for macro work, placing the stages below the ball will cause considerable shift in the camera when making micro adjustments in the stages. They are designed with an arc that is built around a nodal point slightly above the mount in the camera (ideally, on the camera optical axis).

This is why they have to be above the ball, and in fact, why the P0 works better as a camera for panos anyway, since the leveling axis is below the pan axis.

But I agree, the P0 looks a bit ungainly with the additional stages on top.



Jan 08, 2018 at 08:12 PM
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