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C1Pro 11 for Sony, Step by step guides?
  
 
timballic
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · C1Pro 11 for Sony, Step by step guides?


Really struggling with starting to use C1 Pro 11 for Sony, the complications leave me banging my head as I come to impasse after impasse. I'm getting nowhere with it. However, as so many user reviews claim it to be much better at handling Sony Alpha files than Lr, and I've no intention of going the Lr subscription route, I'm trying to persevere with it.

My question, are there any simple step by step tutorials to get you started?
I really liked Michael Fry's intro to Lr, when I started with it a few years back, and am looking for something similar for C1 Pro 11. Those I have looked at aren't very clear..at least to me.

For instance, I really want to set up the import parameters to suit me, rather than using the defaults which I don't like, but can I find a simple step by step guide to doing that....no!



Jan 03, 2018 at 04:01 PM
Peter Figen
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · C1Pro 11 for Sony, Step by step guides?


Phase has a bunch of their own tutorials on how to get the most out of C1. I'd start out there.


Jan 03, 2018 at 04:27 PM
EGrav
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · C1Pro 11 for Sony, Step by step guides?


Peter Figen wrote:
Phase has a bunch of their own tutorials on how to get the most out of C1. I'd start out there.


As above and also check out their webinars on youtube



Jan 03, 2018 at 04:31 PM
Abbott Schindl
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · C1Pro 11 for Sony, Step by step guides?


C1 Pro can be a bit intimidating at first, like most powerful/flexible programs.

I know of only 1 book about C1. It's pretty good and covers C1 10:
https://www.amazon.com/Capture-One-Pro-Development-Processing/dp/1681982900/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1515002042&sr=1-1&keywords=capture+one

The Image Professor's Blog on Phase One's site is very good and most entries do a good job of describing the subject. Same for Phase One's YouTube channel. You might also want to sign up for some of their free webinars. Tomorrow (4 Jan) could help you a lot because a photographer's going to walk through his workflow with some real images.

Phase One also has user-to-user forums that have a lot of good info, and their free to everyone. There are both Mac and Windows forums for each version of Capture One.

You can get to all of P1's Capture One resources from their web page.

You don't say what "set up imports to suit me" means, but you can configure importing to add metadata and make certain adjustments via Process Recipes. Create the recipes you want and then specify them in the appropriate places in the Import dialog.

The main thing is not to get frustrated. C1's user interface is different from other programs, but it's really very understandable once you work with it.



Jan 03, 2018 at 06:00 PM
timballic
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · C1Pro 11 for Sony, Step by step guides?


Thanks for the advice. I hadn't considered a book, maybe I'll look at that too.
What I meant be tailoring the imports, is that the default settings seem to produce rather dark and drab images, I need to lighten the look.



Jan 03, 2018 at 08:21 PM
Peter Figen
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · C1Pro 11 for Sony, Step by step guides?


timballic - If most of your imports are, as you say, dark and drab, maybe there's something else going on. Monitor calibration and camera exposure are the first two to come to mind. The correct exposure for Capture One will be slightly different than for Adobe's products but when I process images that were shot tethered to Lr they usually look too light not too dark. If you're consistently having images that are too dark then it might be an exposure issue that needs to be addressed. Too drab? That's a bit tougher, but still easily fixed. Once you get overall settings you like in C1, you can then save those to be the new default settings that will be applied to every file, which, of course, you can change on an individual basis as needed.

My normal workflow if I'm processing a bunch of images that need the exact same treatment is to adjust one first, then copy those adjustments (Cmd-Shift-C), then select all the image thumbnails and apply those settings (Cmd-Shift-V) then Cmd-D to process the whole bunch. But I often am working on just three or four at a time that need the same basic settings and use the same copy and paste routine on just those and process them one at a time - Cmd-D, which takes about a second per image. Lots of different ways to work but I've always found that I get closer to where I ultimately want to be, faster with C1 than with any other program.



Jan 03, 2018 at 09:27 PM
DavidBM
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · C1Pro 11 for Sony, Step by step guides?


timballic wrote:
Really struggling with starting to use C1 Pro 11 for Sony, the complications leave me banging my head as I come to impasse after impasse. I'm getting nowhere with it. However, as so many user reviews claim it to be much better at handling Sony Alpha files than Lr, and I've no intention of going the Lr subscription route, I'm trying to persevere with it.

My question, are there any simple step by step tutorials to get you started?
I really liked Michael Fry's intro to Lr, when I started with it a few years back, and am looking for
...Show more

C1 is good, no doubt. But I think the reason many prefer it is exactly that they like the defaults. C1 is more aggressive with noise reduction and sharpening, even if you turn them down. And it produces more saturation and clarity by default as well. And, of course, it’s default color rendering is a bit different in ways you may or may not like.

Persoanally I prefer the default from Lr as a starting point (though I’d rather use an out of C1 image as a final product in much the same way as I’d prefer a good camera JPEG as a final image) as it’s fairly understated.

But if you *don’t* like the default C1 rendering, then really is there any reason to learn to use it? (I am asking this of the OP, I know that we could talk forever as there are things that C1 does better, as well as IMHO things that it does worse or workflow issues for many of us) I don’t know what you use now, but it takes years to get so fluent with a piece of software that all the shortcuts are second nature and you never have to think. You need a really good reason to forgo that, if you have it, and start again.



Jan 03, 2018 at 09:47 PM
Abbott Schindl
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · C1Pro 11 for Sony, Step by step guides?


To add to what Peter wrote:

- Definitely check your monitor calibration.

- If the monitor and exposure are right and you're unhappy with the default results, you can create a custom preset and have that applied either during import, or have it available to apply to the images you want.



Jan 03, 2018 at 11:10 PM
Gregory Edge
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · C1Pro 11 for Sony, Step by step guides?


Go to Lynda.com and sign up for a free trial. They have a very comprehensive series on Capture One. Watch all of them even the previous versions as things don't change drastically and there are some great things in them.



Jan 04, 2018 at 02:27 AM
PhilthePhrame
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · C1Pro 11 for Sony, Step by step guides?


I liked the Luminous Landscape series of tutorials. They start with v. 7 and provide updates to v.10, but they have promised a comprehensive new course for v. 11. The $12.00 pay wall covers the videos, which I think is a good deal.


Jan 04, 2018 at 07:04 AM
 

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PhilthePhrame
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · C1Pro 11 for Sony, Step by step guides?


If you are on FaceBook, the gang at "Capture One Collective" are very generous with their help.


Jan 04, 2018 at 07:06 AM
timballic
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · C1Pro 11 for Sony, Step by step guides?


Wow! Great response. Thanks to you all.
(Phil, I try to avoid Facebook, but if the group is worth it, I might overcome my prejudice. ;o))

I realise I have used completely wrong terms to describe the comparative look of C1 cf. Lr

Here's a screenshot of both.

Top is Lr6 (I set it up for how I like to start from, so not Lr default, that's why it's lighter)
Lower is C1 Pro 11 default settings. (Ignore the catalogue name, Capture 10 Pro, though that's a case in point, I've searched and searched how to change catalogue name, with no success.)

Screenshot (27" late 2012 iMac) rather equalises things, so this isn't as clear as when I view them on screen, but I find C1 too colourful, and dark areas too dense and there appears to be a veiled/diffuse look..
It was a cold, frosty morning, that's why the grass is that colour ;o)

Comparison Lr6 cf C1 Pro 11 by Timothy Ball, on Flickr

Here they are separately: 1600 size as I can't yet work out how to export full size in C1.
Lr6, with my personalised defaults.
Lr6 (My defaults) by Timothy Ball, on Flickr

C1 Pro 11 default. I think the differences are clearer now, certainly the "veiled/diffuse" look is more apparent than in the screenshot above.
C1 Pro 11 Sony Generic defaults by Timothy Ball, on Flickr



Jan 04, 2018 at 10:28 AM
gdsf2
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · C1Pro 11 for Sony, Step by step guides?


Man, I like the CO output much better. It is clearly subjective. But these are starting points so just change to suit your vision.


Jan 04, 2018 at 03:41 PM
timballic
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · C1Pro 11 for Sony, Step by step guides?


gdsf2 wrote:
Man, I like the CO output much better. It is clearly subjective. But these are starting points so just change to suit your vision.


I agree colour and contrast -wise, it is subjective, but not the clarity issue, or "veiledness" I see in C1 defaults.
If it were in Lr, I'd say that the clarity slider had been put to the left. However, if I increase clarity in C1, it darkens the shadows too much before removing the "veil".

If you downloaded both images and switched them rapidly, you should see more clearly what I'm meaning.



Jan 04, 2018 at 04:38 PM
Abbott Schindl
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · C1Pro 11 for Sony, Step by step guides?


Tim, I hope you attended today's C1 webinar (I'm on it now; I think they had an earlier session more timely for Europe). He's doing a very good job of explaining what and why he does things. If you miss(ed) it, try to watch it on their webinar page after it's posted.

Not having seen the original scene, and not knowing your intent, all I can say is that I much prefer the C1 rendering. The light looks more natural and inviting, and I prefer the look of the C1 grass and other details.

However, some things you might try:

1. Change the default ICC profile used in the Base Characteristics panel. If you find a profile you like for most things, just make that the default that's applied for that camera during Import by specifying it in your Import dialog.

2. Consider cranking either Clarity and/or Sharpening and/or Structure down a little, as the C1 image is a little too sharp for me. While I prefer the C1 color balance, if you find it too saturated, just adjust the Luma curve in the Levels tool, or back off on the Saturation slider (I rarely use Saturation; love Luma).

3. If you'd prefer the warm light to be a bit more subdued, go to the Color Editor's Advanced tab (only available in the Pro version, which you said you have), click the eyedropper on a bit of foliage, and adjust that color with the sliders.

4. To create a "dreamy look" in the grass, use the eyedropper to select the color, and consider making a new layer from that selection ("..." menu in the tool) and "season to taste", including adjusting the layer's Opacity (new capability in C1 11).

If you find a set of "adjustments" that work well for many images, create a Preset and apply it to whatever images you want.

BTW: to create output of specific sizes, with or without watermarks, etc., go to the Process tab and create and save a Process Recipe with your parameters. If you have trouble doing this, click the Help button—Phase One did a pretty good job of explaining this basic feature.

I hope this helps.



Jan 04, 2018 at 04:43 PM
timballic
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · C1Pro 11 for Sony, Step by step guides?


Abbott Schindl wrote:
Tim, I hope you attended today's C1 webinar (I'm on it now; I think they had an earlier session more timely for Europe). He's doing a very good job of explaining what and why he does things. If you miss(ed) it, try to watch it on their webinar page after it's posted.


I hope this helps.


Many thanks Abbott. I wasn't able to attend, but fully intend to watch it later.

Thanks for all your comments. For me the C1 default is over saturated, but I hope I can change that. As I explained in my reply to gdsf2 above, it is that diffuse "veiled" look that disturbs me most.

I will try your suggestions.



Jan 04, 2018 at 04:47 PM
Peter Figen
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · C1Pro 11 for Sony, Step by step guides?


Also good to note that in the Process Tab, you can designate multiple process recipes to the done simultaneously, allowing output to full res tiff and low res jpeg at the same time - in whatever color space and bit depth you require - or whatever you want.


Jan 04, 2018 at 04:51 PM
Mescalamba
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · C1Pro 11 for Sony, Step by step guides?


C1 vs LR output differs only in C1 having quality color profiles and LR not.

Also C1 is much faster due optimisation towards high mpix MFDBs. Price for that is a bit meh scaling demosaicing algorithm.

Means if you are into detail extraction, its not the best. But then if you have A7 MK3, you probably dont actually need per-pixel detail and thats for what is C1 made.

I think that if one doesnt need speed, LR only needs good quality color profile and problems are pretty much fixed. Sorta applies to any RAW developer..



Jan 04, 2018 at 05:02 PM
gdsf2
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · C1Pro 11 for Sony, Step by step guides?


timballic wrote:
I agree colour and contrast -wise, it is subjective, but not the clarity issue, or "veiledness" I see in C1 defaults.
If it were in Lr, I'd say that the clarity slider had been put to the left. However, if I increase clarity in C1, it darkens the shadows too much before removing the "veil".

If you downloaded both images and switched them rapidly, you should see more clearly what I'm meaning.


Maybe you have the pics reversed? Because the C1 image looks less “vieled.”



Jan 05, 2018 at 03:37 PM
timballic
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · C1Pro 11 for Sony, Step by step guides?


gdsf2 wrote:

Maybe you have the pics reversed? Because the C1 image looks less “vieled.”


No they're the right way.
As the person who was there when the picture was shot, the Lr rendering is closer to what I remember. Look at the lit tree branches to centre right, the red/orange in C1 default is way OTT.

If you switched back and forth, from one to the other, you'd see that veiling clearly. Also you'd see why I earlier described C1 as "heavier" than Lr, especially in the trees.

I'm having trouble posting the Flickr link, it keeps coming up with "Error". But if you click on the link beside one of the two above images, it will take you to my test Flickr site, and you can then switch rapidly between the last two images.



Jan 05, 2018 at 03:40 PM
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